Those behind the Obama Birth Cert conspiracy

Heres another person who made a lawsuit against Obama... Andy Martin.
rawstory.com...

Martin himself is known for his history of frivolous lawsuits and anti-Semitic remarks. He was thrust into prominence earlier this month by an appearance on the Fox News program of Sean Hannity

It appears he made a lawsuit in conjunction with Keyes. This is a bigger joke and stinks more than the reasons behind Berg and Keyes. This guy claimed Obama was a muslim then changed his mind and all of a sudden began to claim that Obamas real father was "Frank Marshall Davis" for some random reason... Frank Davis is an african american journalist, his also an american natural born citizen.

However wrong false Andys claim may be it should be noted that it is highly contradictary of him to do this then lodge a lawsuit against Obamas natural born citizenship for it would make Obama a natural born eitherway because both his parents were natural born if Davis was his father.

Aint that nice... Andy by the least admitted one thing....

Martin himself insists that "I've gotten a lot of flack for this latest rumor, simply because people want to believe he's a Muslim."

This is yet another example of the individuals and the sites pushing this BC rumor around, these an agenda and it stinks. It stinks of partisanship and it stinks of post election bitterness.

Eitherway Obama will be president come jan for the next 4-8years. Theres only so much one can continue to deny.



[edit on 22-11-2008 by southern_Guardian]

First off, I did not support McCain OR Obama.

You know, the POTUS is supposed to work for US. We The People. At this point there are reportedly at least 15 states advancing some type of legal action regarding Obama's Birth place. I believe this makes the whole situation a little more than a "conspiracy". There is enough reasonable doubt regarding his birthplace to cause this commotion.

Obama is obviously aware of the questions regarding his eligibility for POTUS and he has already traveled to Hawaii during his campaign. How hard would it have been for him to produce unquestionable evidence of his birth to quash all of these questions? I believe the questions are valid as we have never had a President Elect with so much controversy over his eligibility. I also believe that WE as American citizens deserve REAL answers to these accusations.

Ultimately, IMHO, it shows that Obama is an Elitist and feels that he is better than everyone else and doesn't have to please the people. Shame on all of you that think he is above reproach.

The real kicker is the fact that NO ONE has seen the real deal Birth Certificate. All you have are some scans of documents on questionable Internet sites. You'd think with all the Millions he spent on Infomercials broadcast to millions of Americans, would have been an ideal time to put this issue to rest.

The major argument I always see from the Obama supporters is a distraction talking about McCain's eligibility, even though most know he was born on a Navy base in Panama. ANY US military base ANYWHERE in the world is considered US soil.

People need to open their eyes and see what type of man Obama really is. Filling his cabinet with Clintonites should give you a clue. So much for "CHANGE".

Though he really is just another Politician cut from the same mold. He tells everyone what they want to hear, then does whatever he wants. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

It's just like he's saying: "I'm the new President (The Decider) and I don't have to prove anything to anybody."

We all need to exercise some rational thought regarding this. He is just a man, not a messiah. He hasn't done anything significant in his short political career. His track record, as a Politician or Civilian, is unremarkable yet he is hailed as our savior!

I'm sorry if I stepped on some toes, but I don't trust ANY Politician. Especially someone who is about to be in control of the free world.

Cheers!

Maybe this will help…and the source can’t be further to the right.

www.freerepublic.com...

The following was posted on the "Freerepublic" website......

Virginia State Court Dismisses Action Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 1:20:35 PM
The decision was handed down today – it is a long and well-reasoned analysis.

***
Today’s decision is not the result of a conspiracy, nor is it the result of a biased or unprincipled judge. I have made a good living working in out nations courts and have the utmost respect for them. I would hope all patriotic Americans would feel the same way and avoid making unfounded scurrilous remarks about the judge or the judicial system.

***
Quotes:

The Court made the following findings:

1. The Certification of Live Birth presented to the court is unquestionably authentic.

The court noted that the certification had a raised seal from the state of Hawaii, had a stamp bearing the signature of the registrar of vital statistics. The court found “wholly unpersuasive” any of the internet claims that the birth certificate was altered in any way. Furthermore, the document itself was accompanied by an affidavit from the State Health Director (of Hawaii) verifying that the document is an authentic certification of live birth. The court held that there could be no doubt that the document was authentic unless one believed that the state of Hawaii’s health department were in on an elaborate and complex conspiracy – and that there is not a shred of evidence that this is the case.

2. The Certification of Live Birth establishes that Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen.

The affidavit of the State Health Director states that the information on the CLOB is identical to the information on the “vault” copy of the birth certificate, and that both documents establish that Mr. Obama was born in Honolulu. The Court noted that the CLOB is valid for all citizenship purposes. The court noted our argument that the COLB is not valid for determining citizenship, but referred us to Hawaiian law that states otherwise. “There is no difference between a certificate and a certification of live birth in the eyes of the state. For instance, either can be used to confirm U.S. citizenship to obtain a passport or state ID.” The court found that Hawaiian law makes the COLB valid for all purposes with the exception of determining native Hawaiian heritage for certain state and federal benefits. The court held that if Mr. Obama were born elsewhere and the birth registered in Hawaii, the “place of birth” line on the COLB would reflect that fact. The court stated that there could be no doubt that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii and that any argument to the contrary was fanciful and relied on completely unsubstantiated internet rumors.

3. For that reason, 8 U.S.C. §1401(g), which at the relevant time provided as follows:

“The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: ***(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:…..
is irrelevant to this matter, as Mr. Obama was conclusively born in Hawaii.

4. Mr. Obama did hold dual citizenship in the U.S. and Kenya until he became an adult. When Barack Obama Jr. was born Kenya was a British colony. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children: “British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.” In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UK. Obama’s UK citizenship became an Kenyan citizenship on Dec. 12, 1963, when Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. The court noted that Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963…

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
Thus the court held that as a citizen of the UK who was born in Kenya, Obama’s father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UK status at birth and given that Obama’s father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), thus Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship in 1963.

However, the court further held that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya’s Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya. The court held that there was no evidence that Mr. Obama has ever renounced his U.S. citizenship or sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982.

The court held that there was no legal requirement that Mr. Obama renounce his Kenyan citizenship or affirm his U.S. citizenship in order to maintain his status as a natural born citizen.

5. Mr. Obama did not lose his U.S. Citizenship based on the acts of his parents, including adoption by an Indonesian citizen. The Court held that no action taken by the parents of an American child can strip that child of his citizenship. The court cited to the 1952 Immigration & Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Sections 349 and 355, which was in effect in the late 1960s when Obama went to Indonesia, and which stated that a minor does not lose his US citizenship upon the naturalization of his parents or any other actions of his parents, so long as the minor returns to the US and establishes permanent US residency before the age of 21. Thus the adoption of Obama did not serve to strip him of his U.S. citizenship. The fact that Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship is irrelevant, as U.S. law controls. Furthermore, the Court held that traveling on a foreign passport does not strip an American of his citizenship. The Court noted first that there was no evidence that Mr. Obama traveled on an Indonesian passport (Mr. Berg and others we reached out to for evidence never provided any evidence of this claim or any other of the claims we could have used some proof of.) Nonetheless, the court held that such travel does not divest an American of his citizenship.

The Court makes other holdings and findings that I won’t bother you with here. Needless to say, the decision is wholly against us. The court finds the claims against Mr. Obama’s citizenship “wholly unpersuasive and bordering on the frivolous, especially in light of the complete absence of any first-hand evidence on any critical issue”

[edit on 22-11-2008 by maybereal11]

The Kenyan Ambassador never said Pres. Elect Obama was born in Kenya. He was talking about Obama’s father (Barack Obama Senior) as I clearly show here..
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Obama’s Grandmother DID NOT SAY she was present at Pre. Elect Obama’s birth. She was also referring to Barack Obama SENIOR, his father, as BenevolentHeretic demonstrates here…
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Barack Obama’s Birth certificate (long form) is under no special “seal”, but rather is treated with the same privacy restrictions that all of our birth certificates are treated with. Corsi asked to see it and they denied him because he had no legitimate cause.

"It does not appear that Dr. Corsi is within any of these categories of persons with a direct and tangible interest in the birth certificate he seeks," wrote Roz Makuala, manager of constituent services in the governor's office, in an e-mailed response to a WND request seeking the information.

Corsi can't go asking to see Obama's Birth certificate anymore that he can ask to see yours or mine..thank god.

Barack Obama has not "hired a team of lawyers" to fight this. He has ignored it as he has no time or energy to respond to right wing crazies after he has already clearly demonstrated his citizenship to any objective credible authority.

There IS NOT a SCOTUS “Hearing” it is a “conference” to avoid the idiocy of having this case presented multiple times to each and every justice…first he tried Suiter and was denied and then he next went to Thomas. Anyone with a shred of logic can predict that the court plans on issuing a response to SUMMARILY dismiss these claims after CONFERENCE among the justices…not a hearing.

The difference between a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and a CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH IS ZILCH! Don’t take my word for it, take the people who create and validate the certificates word…the Government and the state of Alaska…See post above.

reply to post by maybereal11


Iv got the nails... do you have a hammer so we can nail this thing shut?

I've always kind of felt that the issue of citizenship and nationality are a bit moot when it comes right down to it. I mean look at Arnold Schwarzeneagger: he wasn't born in the U.S. either and he's the Governor of California. If people really had issues with nationality, they would have slammed the door on him a long while ago before he ascended to his current position. 'sides - I like Obama. Great guy.

reply to post by maybereal11

Sorry, even the Anti-Berg Site has removed the alleged Virginia Case from it's proofs. It is unsubstantiated, no record of that being a real case can be found

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Sorry, even the Anti-Berg Site has removed the alleged Virginia Case from it's proofs. It is unsubstantiated, no record of that being a real case can be found

Oh it doesnt matter my friend, the Indonesian conspiracy has been debunked as well as the Kenyan one not too long ago. Pritty soon there will be another rightwing conspiracy to take the place of this one, I dont know.... maybe "Obama related to Saddam because of his middle name"... jeeze... your choice to jump of the rightwingnut bandwagon... you just wont get anywhere.

Don't forget that guy who wrote the stupid book "Obamanation." He's a well known anti-semite racist # who Sean Hannity quotes like crazy. I'm sure he's not biased at all! (sarcasm) Thank you for starting this thread to talk about this seriously. I can't believe people believe this crap. As I mentioned in another thread about this I always say to people who spout it: why didn't the Clinton's use it? Bill Clinton is a former president and has that type of access to know or not but they didn't. If it was true everyone would probably be ready to say president Hillary Clinton now but they aren't.

Originally posted by interestedalways
What he produced isn't good enough.

There is much more to it. Other factors involved.

Do some research yourselves, obviously you haven't.

LOL so one minute you want him to produce the certificate and when it's shown to you then you say that isn't good enough.

Originally posted by DOHC

Obama may be a U.S. citizen because his mother was a citizen (jus sanguinis), which is true, but for the presidency, the constitution specifies not just nationality, but a "natural born citizen" so my understanding is that jus sanguinis does not apply to that specific requirement, only jus soli. One has to be born in the United States to be president, and technically, Obama wasn't.

Prior to 1986, someone born abroad was a U.S. citizen only if both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth. Since Obama's father was not a U.S. citizen (he was Kenyan), he actually cannot claim citizenship by jus sanguinis, only by jus soli with Hawaii considered a state. Again, I still don't think this will have any actual effect on his eligibility, since the U.S. considers Hawaii a state, but in fact if you follow the legal argument that Hawaii is an occupied country and the U.S. has never legally acquired Hawaii, the logical consequence is that Obama is not a natural-born citizen by either place or parentage, and is not actually eligible for the presidency.

Research the overthrow of Hawaii and you might be able to understand this a little bit better.

You are really clutching at straws here.

Whatever the moral issues of Hawaii's statehood, they are irrelevant to the legal issues of citizenship. Legally, technically, geographically, Obama was born on American soil. He has citizenship by jus soli.

Much as I sympathize with the Hawaiian independence movements, denying a person U.S. jus soli citizenship because they were born there could also mean denying Texans and Alaskans jus soli citizenship, as they also have independence movements disputing the legality of their acquirement by the U.S..

Justia> Law> US Law> US Code> TITLE 8 — ALIENS AND NATIONALITY> CHAPTER 12 — IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY> SUBCHAPTER III — NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION>

PART I — NATIONALITY AT BIRTH AND COLLECTIVE NATURALIZATION>

§ 1409. — Children born out of wedlock.

(c) Notwithstanding the provision of subsection (a) of this section, a person born, after December 23, 1952, outside the United States and out of wedlock shall be held to have acquired at birth the nationality status of his mother, if the mother had the nationality of the United States at the time of such person's birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.

As you can see, your second argument is also incorrect. As Obama's father was already married when he married Obama's mother, their marriage was technically illegal. Therefore Obama could have been born on the moon, and, provided his birth was after 1952, he would still be an American citizen by jus sanguinis.

Btw, your statement that: "Prior to 1986, someone born abroad was a U.S. citizen only if both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth", is completely false. You might like to do your homework on this one.

Originally posted by Jenna
But, as I have pointed out before, his birth certificate is not the only issue in the lawsuits so assuming that they did tell the truth and he was in fact born in Hawaii the rest of the issues surrounding his natural-born status remain.

And you wonder why Obama doesn't wast his time and money turning up in dozens of different courts, needlessly waving his birth certificate around to placate internet-rumour mongers, when you already admit that would not satisfy you.

No matter how many times an issue is proven, Obama-haters will still pretend it hasn't been. No matter who finds in Obama's favour Obama-haters will say they have been pressured, paid off, or are "part of the conspiracy."

It is my understanding, and someone correct me please if I'm wrong, that it is possible to lose your natural-born status yet regain citizenship. (i.e. becoming a citizen of another country, then regaining citizenship of the first)

It has already been made clear that it was not possible for Obama to lose his American citizenship in Indonesia.

Firstly, he was not there for long enough to be granted citizenship.
Secondly, gaining Indonesian citizenship as a child would, by American law, not lose him American citizenship, as he was too young to understand the ramifications of giving up American citizenship, and therefore could not be considered to have given it up voluntarily.

Originally posted by arizonascott
reply to post by Irish M1ck

 

NO, I want a professional note examiner to hold it, smell it, tear off a piece and acid test the type of peper, look at the age of ink, look at the raised seals and most of all I want them to verify this document - I dop not want it verified from his pals in the media, or the Obama favoring websites or his personal website!

I want an independent - non-biast investigator who is a proven document specialist to compare his birth certificate with a current resident of Hawaii's a birth certificate from the same exact time period!

Same ink, same paper, same raised seal, same everything!

Then we will all be able to let him do his job, and its a big one just look around!

Bankrupt banks, millions of forclosures, millions losing their jobs, wars, corrupt government, unloyal foreign lobbyists!

He has a lot of work to do - lets make sure he is the best "American" for the job

That will pretty much do it

[edit on 18-11-2008 by arizonascott]

Old technique ...

... Ask for something you know you are never going to get, in order to have an ongoing complaint forever.

Sorry, if reasonable proof is not good enough for you, you obviously wouldn't be content with exceptional proof either.

If "an independent - non-biast investigator (sic)" did all this and then found it genuine, you would either call them "biast", or find another dead "issue" to create an argument from.

So stupid!

So what, exactly, is Obama hiding then? The Obamabots just guzzle this koolaid faster than it can be dispensed. Have you no brains? How hard is it to produce a vault version long birth certificate? Answer: very simple. So simple in fact that all that needs to happen is for Obama to designate someone that he authorizes to go and get a copy - yet, he hasn't. Why?

A COLB is NOTHING! I can get one for a fake person with faked documents; it's cake! The Virginia lawsuit is bogus and never existed - I know this as I have access to LexisNexis. There are serious questions regarding his Selective Service Registration. There are still questions lingering about his citizenship.

Given the fact that no one can access any of his college papers, his transcripts, has gone by different names, lived abroad and the fact that his own grandmother and the Ambassador have BOTH stated that he was born in Kenya (despite weak attempts to attribute it to Obama's father - PUH-leeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!:@@ AND that he simply cannot produce the damned birth certificate makes it all suspect.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it's probably a duck. If he really wants to put this to sleep - PRODUCE THE DAMN DOCUMENT!!!

Originally posted by Kailassa
Old technique ...

... Ask for something you know you are never going to get, in order to have an ongoing complaint forever.

Hmmmmmm... Strangely enough, sounds like the technique of a Democrat I would just settle for him releasing his vault long version birth certificate. How hard is that?

[edit on 23-11-2008 by kozmo]

Originally posted by kozmo
Hmmmmmm... Strangely enough, sounds like the technique of a Democrat

I would just settle for him releasing his vault long version birth certificate. How hard is that?

Oh, really?

Originally posted by kozmo
There are serious questions regarding his Selective Service Registration. There are still questions lingering about his citizenship.

Given the fact that no one can access any of his college papers, his transcripts, has gone by different names, lived abroad and the fact that his own grandmother and the Ambassador have BOTH stated that he was born in Kenya (despite weak attempts to attribute it to Obama's father - PUH-leeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!:@@

AND that he simply cannot produce the damned birth certificate makes it all suspect.

Sure you would just settle for him releasing his vault long version birth certificate....


Regarding the grandmother, who is not actually Obama's grandmother at all as both Obama's blood grandmothers are dead -

In one tape a woman, said to be Obama's paternal grandmother, claimed that Obama was "a son of this village."
It's a cultural expression of pride and acceptance, meaning that Obama has ancestral roots in that village.

A second tape, audio only, purports to be another interview with Obama's paternal grandmother, and the dialogue is as follows:

Translator: She says she is cover your prayers for he (unintelligable) her son.
...
Ron McCrae: Amen, I am so thankful. Could I ask her about his, uh, his actual birthplace? I would like to see his actual birthplace when I, when I come to Kenya in December. Uh, was she present when he was, was she present when he was born in Kenya?

Translator to Sarah Obama: Alikuma zalima Obama (unintelligable) Kweli Shuhubia: He is asking her, he wants to know something was ah she present when he was born?

Translator: Yes. She says "Yes she was! She present when Obama was born."

Ron McCrae: Okay.

therightperspective.com...
au.youtube.com...

It is quite possible that Sarah Obama, (Onyango's third wife,) is correct, and that she was present when Onyango's second wife, Akuma, gave birth to Obama's father, Barack Obama senior.


Regarding the radio call, have you never heard of radio prank calls and hoax interviews before?
Can you really believe an ambassador to America would risk rubbing up the incoming President the wrong way by making a statement that casts doubt on his right to be president?
You don't get to be an ambassador by being so unaware or so tactless.


Regarding living abroad and using different names, do you believe that spending 4 years overseas as a child is an issue?
Are you unaware that children are commonly given the surname of their new father when their mothers remarry? As Obama moved in with his maternal grandmaother in Hawaii at 10 years old, it was natural for him to revert to the surname he shared with her.

Barry and Barack are not different names any more than Harry and Harold are. One is a diminutive, used as a child and by friends, the other is the official version to use in business and on legal documents.

LOL at this thread!

Only on ATS...Literally, a month after the election, you have these out of touch, weirdos!

Like, ok we get it. You think Obama is a liar. That he never went to Harvard or Colombia. That he never had children. Those aren't his kids. That he isn't a human, he's a reptile. That Obama is really a Muslim and he just pretends to be American his true allegiance is with the Super Power Kenya.You think the guy's a fraud.

[edit on 23-11-2008 by ConservativeJack]

[edit on 23-11-2008 by ConservativeJack]

reply to post by ConservativeJack

Like, ok we get it. You think Obama is a liar. That he never went to Harvard or Colombia. That he never had children. Those aren't his kids. That he isn't a human, he's a reptile. That Obama is really a Muslim and he just pretends to be American his true allegiance is with the Super Power Kenya.

Wow I skipped of few pages of this thread, seems I missed alot.


He never went to Harvard or Columbia?
His 2 girls are not his?
He is not human?
He's scaley?
He has allegiance to Kenya?


I don't remember reading any of this, guess I will have to go back and read every page. I thought this was only about whether he was born in the US or Kenya.

reply to post by Kailassa


Once again, even though I thought I posted the following in this thread as well.

If you read my posts, and actually read the words without adding in meaning that isn't there, I will be satisfied as long as the laws of our country are followed. That's all I'm looking for. If he is not a natural born citizen, or somehow lost his natural born status, then he should not be president. That is the law, that is a qualification per the Constitution. If he is a natural born citizen and never lost his natural born status, great I hope he does a good job as president. However, he needs to show the courts that he does have natural born status. Not his personal website, not a biased news organization, not a website that has not been completely honest about his record on a few things, but the courts.

There are 17 lawsuits in 12 states, one of which is waiting for the Supreme Court to decide if they are going to hear it. This is not something that a bunch of right-wing nuts came up with on this site. Many of the people who have visited the 100 threads here about this situation are Obama supporters who also want the situation resolved. Yet the die-hards keep coming in trying to demean and belittle everyone who doesn't have the same thoughts as they do about Obama. I have to wonder why many of you even bother posting if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation aside from a snippy attitude that anyone would dare to question Obama. Where have you been the last 8 years when Bush was catching all the flak? Were you defending him too? Or is it just Obama that we can't question without being racist nut jobs?