Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout

Im infatuated,but you are very wrong gamergal,like rockpucky said,you sound like a MSM parrot.

Getting back on topic......

I think the US automakers will get a bailout. Don't forget there is precedent. Chrysler got a 1.2 billion dollar bailout in 84(i think?). Granted the dollar amount will be much larger this time around. I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) Chrysler was able to pay back the loan quickly and the government made money on the deal.

Do they deserve a bailout? My gut feeling is no. The compaines are under such pressure to lower costs they have been turning out inferior products compared to thier japanese and german rivals for a LONG time. It has finally caught up with them.

American cars are pure garbage. Consumers aren't stupid. Why should they spend money on a bad product when there are much better alternatives in the import segment. You cannot build much needed brand loyalty but constantly disapointing your customers.

With that said if the automakers go under the economic devestation would be unbelievable. The industry employs too many people. The government has no choice, they must bail them out.I think they will.

There will be alot of conditions that go along with it i'm sure. I heard a rumor Friday that GM will be filing for bankrupty in a month or so. Don't know if thats true though.

Everyone who says let them fail and new companies will replace them, thats just not going to happen. The r&d logistics and knowldge just cannot happen overnight. It takes decades for a car company to be competitive and develop products. GM and Ford has been around for 100 years.

Imo GM just has too many divisions. Dump Pontiac and Buick.
Keep Saturn as entry level. Chevy as mid range and Caddy as luxury division. I could be off base but i always thought they would be able to focus on quality if they had less products.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by drock905]

The fact is neither of them should of been given bailouts period. They should ALL be allowed to fail. That is how a free market works and if we cant have a free market that can allow people to fail without ruining the whole system then maybe its time to change the system. The fact is that if the Republicans had control of the house and senate that this bailout would go through just like the financial was rushed though. The Republicans are just trying to show that they are the conservatives but the games are up. The Republicans had their chance from 2000-2006 and they managed to ruin this country which is what I WOULD expect from democrats. SO now I get no party to vote for so now I vote third party.

reply to post by mybigunit

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Be allowed to fail? You know that if Auto Makers fail America's economy collapses, another depression, all while the friends of GOP roll in the dough. Halliburton? Hundreds of billions. Big Oil? Hundreds of billions. Freddie Mac? 700billion after running McCain's campaign. Auto Makers? Nope, didn't run McCain's Campaign, get nothing.

No actually if they fail someone will come and buy them up. Do you think all the factories will just disapear? There is a demand for cars and someone will have to fill that demand. The big 3 have been mis managed for over 30 years now. They have sat back and watched Toyota kick their butt while still putting out the same crappy products that break down after a year or two. As far as a depression I think we are already there and the government is hiding it and bailing out the auto industry is not going to save it.

As far as the above like I said and Ill repeat it again NONE of them should get bailouts and that does include that financial industry. They already got it I understand that and it was not right but where does it end? Where is my bailout? If they all get a bailout I too want a bailout? The fact is you cant bail out bad companies and I agree the trickle down theory does not work in fact if I remember right I was on your side on another thread. But bailing out the auto industry is not going to do nothing. They will still put out the same crappy products only this time with our money just like the financial industry didnt change a bit with our money.

I notice this poster doesn't let the truth get in the way of her post,someones rash opinion doesn't make it true,I think that this is a good opportunity to break up labor unions

reply to post by GamerGal

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If you actually care, read this: chrisyeh.blogspot.com...

If you were just making the usual partisan, class warfare points of attack... carry on.

Do I need to point out the ignorance you spouted about the bailout being Republican backed? It was Pelosi and the democrats who pushed it through. The republicans voted it down the first time (and not because of any Pelosi speech, but because of constitutional principles).

So if they voted it down why did they vote for it the second time? OHHHH YEAHHHH they wanted bribe money, I mean pork, I mean an incentive thats the term they used. The fact is this was introduced by Bush and the Dems backed it because thats what they do push big government and the Republicans were for it too but they wanted some bribe money to vote for it hence the 140 billion of pork that was added on. So much for constitutional principals huh? Sigh God Bless America or God Damn America.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by mybigunit

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Why would you get a bail out? You didn't run McCain's campaign. And that's what has my blood boiling. The people that ran McCain's campaign get 700billion. Every one else? Nothing. I don't get one to pay off my KIA, a Korean car that I can milk out 40mpg out of. You don't get one to pay off your house. After all, you don't own six mansions, a private jet, yacht, and the GOP. And to those who criticize me do you really think it is a coincidence? Do you really think that Freddie Mac runs McCain's campaign, get 700billion but the Auto Makers didn't and get nothing.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by GamerGal]

Understand something I feel your pain but make no mistake the Democrats played a HUGE part in this all too. Remember the former CEO of Fannie ran Obamas economic team I mean look at this video

www.youtube.com...

My point is and I point this out to Soulslayer44 above that this whole ordeal is REALLY BOTH PARTIES faults and BOTH of them are the cause and BOTH of them want the bailouts. The only reason the Republicans are talking against the bailout is because they want all of us fighting. As long as all of us fight eachother and not against the 2 party crime family this will continue to happen period end of story. Both parties are the cause of this and BOTH parties will get rich off of this via back end money our back end money not to mention while we all wallow and fight eachother....sigh.

reply to post by mybigunit

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But the Dems want to "spread the wealth" while the GOP wants it so only their owners get it. Only Halliburton, Oil, and Freddie Mac. Hmm, Cheney worked for Halliburton, Bush is an Oil Man, and FM ran McCain's campaign. Am I the only one seeing this?

Look realistically the bill was going to get passed by any means possible. Bush may have used an executive order if the house voted it down a second time.

Local congressmen therefore decided to take the pork and run... after all, it looks better for their constituents if they brought at least something back in return.

Of course principles in politics are dead. Right now its just a question of how much can you screw the system to suit your own ends as an elected representative. Those who dont care about politics and who stick to the constitution (read Ron Paul) are ignored by the idiotic majority of the electorate.

reply to post by GamerGal

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Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were expanded under the Clinton years in order to allow poor people (who couldnt actually afford a mortgage) to own a house.

Face it, it was the Dems that screwed the federally backed giants up by forcing them into sub-prime.

www.ibdeditorials.com...

This is the problem I have with democracy... people think they know everything despite only having fractional knowledge gained from some form or other of tainted media.

I think that any elected official who opposes the bailout is doing the right thing, at this point anyway.

I do believe that a bailout is proper in this sector of the economy, but only after all three automaker's declare bankruptcy and alleviate themselves from the rediculous legacy costs and equally ludicrous collective agreements that pay people to sit around, and that put a clear limit on the level of executive remuneration, along with clear requirements that ensures reaonably paid jobs are created and mantained within our borders.

You can have the best of both worlds, there just has to be the will to do it. Whether or not that happens, I guess that's the question.

reply to post by LowLevelMason

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If you have not noticed yet it was a big scam to get people like you to think the way you are thinking right now.

The bail out was passed and guess what they got away with the same bull crap that the so call "opponent" voted against

Go ask Paulso what he has been doing with those 2 trillion dollars of money already gone missing.

I forgot he doesn't have to apologize to anybody for changing his mind and neither have to tell where the money go

Deny ignorance you me and everybody has been scammed.

But rest assure that Paulson littler book of friend will have great Christmas this year thanks to the generosity of the American tax payer.

Now the auto industry wants a bail out but what people are forgetting is that, while the first bail out went to the pocket of CEOs and other shady groups that we can not ask about, the auto industry supply thousands of America jobs, yes regular American not white collar jobs as in the financial businesses.

If the big three goes downso every other car maker in this nation still working in America, from there the economic downfall will start to trickle down to the nearest small businesses around you, it will not be only the thousands of jobs loses in the car industry, but anything linked to that is going to be affected, let me spell this out, car dealers, mechanics, part sellers, auto body shops, repair shops you name it, they all linked together one way or another.

Local jobs at state level all over the nation will be affected, as our nation is now governed by what is called a trickle down economy, help the very rich so the littler guy get the left over crumbs at the end.

But then again if what we have seen Paulson doing with the tax payer bail out is to repeat with the auto industry we will be paying for what will be a very good Christmas for the auto industry CEOs and still the auto industry will go backrupt anyway as we all know in our nation lack of regulations makes posible for the biggest scam and robbery on the tax payer of this nation.

People like Ron Paul are ignored because people are still convinced there is a difference between democrats and republicans. This is what I was trying to tell you as you and gamergirl were arguing dem this and republican that. Until people see it for what it is and that is the 2 party crime family gets us to fight eachother not only dem and repub but also race as long as we continue down this path nothing will change. Ron Paul got 2% in Montana btw that might be where I go to live. At least you have realists up there.

We will see how many of the "rich" peoples taxes go up. They wont. It was a great campaign slogan and thats it. He wont raise the taxes. Warren Buffet will continue to pay 15% while Im stuck paying 33%. Great just Great.

Ah yes, stellar argument. Because YOU can't name one person who works for Freddie Mac or did work for Lehman brothers they must not be important or they must not have been American workers of any consequence. Furthermore, the consequences to the economy are moot. Therefore bailing them out isn't important.

But since you personally know four people who work in the auto industry, this makes it important to bail them out.

I'm nominating your post as the single most IGNORANT and ridculous post for the rest of the year.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by sos37]

As for the bailout, I am also opposed to it so long at the UAW is attached to the auto industry.

I'm not saying the auto industry isn't without fault because we know they are - they insisted on continuing to make SUVs and large trucks when gas prices were at their highest prices.

But the UAW has a stranglehold on the industry. They are so ungiving, unclenching that they would rather the auto industry fail than release an inch of their grip.

I say let GM and Chrysler file for bankruptcy and then let a parent company/companies pick up the pieces without having to worry about the United Auto Workers attached to what's left. Then salvage what's left of those two companies by merging them into one responsible, completely differently managed company that has no union ties whatsoever.