Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 2 times


reply posted on 16-11-2008 @ 08:55 PM by drock905
Getting back on topic......

I think the US automakers will get a bailout. Don't forget there is precedent. Chrysler got a 1.2 billion dollar bailout in 84(i think?). Granted the dollar amount will be much larger this time around. I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) Chrysler was able to pay back the loan quickly and the government made money on the deal.

Do they deserve a bailout? My gut feeling is no. The compaines are under such pressure to lower costs they have been turning out inferior products compared to thier japanese and german rivals for a LONG time. It has finally caught up with them.

American cars are pure garbage. Consumers aren't stupid. Why should they spend money on a bad product when there are much better alternatives in the import segment. You cannot build much needed brand loyalty but constantly disapointing your customers.

With that said if the automakers go under the economic devestation would be unbelievable. The industry employs too many people. The government has no choice, they must bail them out.I think they will.

There will be alot of conditions that go along with it i'm sure. I heard a rumor Friday that GM will be filing for bankrupty in a month or so. Don't know if thats true though.

Everyone who says let them fail and new companies will replace them, thats just not going to happen. The r&d logistics and knowldge just cannot happen overnight. It takes decades for a car company to be competitive and develop products. GM and Ford has been around for 100 years.

Imo GM just has too many divisions. Dump Pontiac and Buick.
Keep Saturn as entry level. Chevy as mid range and Caddy as luxury division. I could be off base but i always thought they would be able to focus on quality if they had less products.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by drock905]


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 06:50 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by mybigunit



Be allowed to fail? You know that if Auto Makers fail America's economy collapses, another depression, all while the friends of GOP roll in the dough. Halliburton? Hundreds of billions. Big Oil? Hundreds of billions. Freddie Mac? 700billion after running McCain's campaign. Auto Makers? Nope, didn't run McCain's Campaign, get nothing.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:36 AM by mybigunit
Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to
post by mybigunit



Be allowed to fail? You know that if Auto Makers fail America's economy collapses, another depression, all while the friends of GOP roll in the dough. Halliburton? Hundreds of billions. Big Oil? Hundreds of billions. Freddie Mac? 700billion after running McCain's campaign. Auto Makers? Nope, didn't run McCain's Campaign, get nothing.


No actually if they fail someone will come and buy them up. Do you think all the factories will just disapear? There is a demand for cars and someone will have to fill that demand. The big 3 have been mis managed for over 30 years now. They have sat back and watched Toyota kick their butt while still putting out the same crappy products that break down after a year or two. As far as a depression I think we are already there and the government is hiding it and bailing out the auto industry is not going to save it.

As far as the above like I said and Ill repeat it again NONE of them should get bailouts and that does include that financial industry. They already got it I understand that and it was not right but where does it end? Where is my bailout? If they all get a bailout I too want a bailout? The fact is you cant bail out bad companies and I agree the trickle down theory does not work in fact if I remember right I was on your side on another thread. But bailing out the auto industry is not going to do nothing. They will still put out the same crappy products only this time with our money just like the financial industry didnt change a bit with our money.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:44 AM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by GamerGal



If you actually care, read this: chrisyeh.blogspot.com...

If you were just making the usual partisan, class warfare points of attack... carry on.

Do I need to point out the ignorance you spouted about the bailout being Republican backed? It was Pelosi and the democrats who pushed it through. The republicans voted it down the first time (and not because of any Pelosi speech, but because of constitutional principles).


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:50 AM by mybigunit
Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to
post by GamerGal



If you actually care, read this: chrisyeh.blogspot.com...

If you were just making the usual partisan, class warfare points of attack... carry on.

Do I need to point out the ignorance you spouted about the bailout being Republican backed? It was Pelosi and the democrats who pushed it through. The republicans voted it down the first time (and not because of any Pelosi speech, but because of constitutional principles).


So if they voted it down why did they vote for it the second time? OHHHH YEAHHHH they wanted bribe money, I mean pork, I mean an incentive thats the term they used. The fact is this was introduced by Bush and the Dems backed it because thats what they do push big government and the Republicans were for it too but they wanted some bribe money to vote for it hence the 140 billion of pork that was added on. So much for constitutional principals huh? Sigh God Bless America or God Damn America.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by mybigunit]



reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 07:58 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by mybigunit



Why would you get a bail out? You didn't run McCain's campaign. And that's what has my blood boiling. The people that ran McCain's campaign get 700billion. Every one else? Nothing. I don't get one to pay off my KIA, a Korean car that I can milk out 40mpg out of. You don't get one to pay off your house. After all, you don't own six mansions, a private jet, yacht, and the GOP. And to those who criticize me do you really think it is a coincidence? Do you really think that Freddie Mac runs McCain's campaign, get 700billion but the Auto Makers didn't and get nothing.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by GamerGal]


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:04 AM by mybigunit
Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to
post by mybigunit



Why would you get a bail out? You didn't run McCain's campaign. And that's what has my blood boiling. The people that ran McCain's campaign get 700billion. Every one else? Nothing. I don't get one to pay off my KIA, a Korean car that I can milk out 40mpg out of. You don't get one to pay off your house. After all, you don't own six mansions, a private jet, yacht, and the GOP.


Understand something I feel your pain but make no mistake the Democrats played a HUGE part in this all too. Remember the former CEO of Fannie ran Obamas economic team I mean look at this video

www.youtube.com...

My point is and I point this out to Soulslayer44 above that this whole ordeal is REALLY BOTH PARTIES faults and BOTH of them are the cause and BOTH of them want the bailouts. The only reason the Republicans are talking against the bailout is because they want all of us fighting. As long as all of us fight eachother and not against the 2 party crime family this will continue to happen period end of story. Both parties are the cause of this and BOTH parties will get rich off of this via back end money our back end money not to mention while we all wallow and fight eachother....sigh.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:20 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by mybigunit



But the Dems want to "spread the wealth" while the GOP wants it so only their owners get it. Only Halliburton, Oil, and Freddie Mac. Hmm, Cheney worked for Halliburton, Bush is an Oil Man, and FM ran McCain's campaign. Am I the only one seeing this?


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:26 AM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by GamerGal



Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were expanded under the Clinton years in order to allow poor people (who couldnt actually afford a mortgage) to own a house.

Face it, it was the Dems that screwed the federally backed giants up by forcing them into sub-prime.

www.ibdeditorials.com...

This is the problem I have with democracy... people think they know everything despite only having fractional knowledge gained from some form or other of tainted media.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:42 AM by marg6043
reply to post by LowLevelMason



If you have not noticed yet it was a big scam to get people like you to think the way you are thinking right now.

The bail out was passed and guess what they got away with the same bull crap that the so call "opponent" voted against

Go ask Paulso what he has been doing with those 2 trillion dollars of money already gone missing.

I forgot he doesn't have to apologize to anybody for changing his mind and neither have to tell where the money go

Deny ignorance you me and everybody has been scammed.

But rest assure that Paulson littler book of friend will have great Christmas this year thanks to the generosity of the American tax payer.



reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 08:52 AM by mybigunit
Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to
post by mybigunit



But the Dems want to "spread the wealth" while the GOP wants it so only their owners get it. Only Halliburton, Oil, and Freddie Mac. Hmm, Cheney worked for Halliburton, Bush is an Oil Man, and FM ran McCain's campaign. Am I the only one seeing this?


We will see how many of the "rich" peoples taxes go up. They wont. It was a great campaign slogan and thats it. He wont raise the taxes. Warren Buffet will continue to pay 15% while Im stuck paying 33%. Great just Great.


reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 10:08 AM by sos37
Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to
post by mrwupy



Exactly! The Auto Companies EMPLOY AMERICANS! Name one person you know who works for for Freddie Mac or Lehman Brothers, besides John McCain and the GOP. I know personally four people who work for the auto industries. But again the GOP isn't best friends, swapping wives, or owned by the Auto Industry so they won't get a penny while Billionaire Bankers get it.


Ah yes, stellar argument. Because YOU can't name one person who works for Freddie Mac or did work for Lehman brothers they must not be important or they must not have been American workers of any consequence. Furthermore, the consequences to the economy are moot. Therefore bailing them out isn't important.

But since you personally know four people who work in the auto industry, this makes it important to bail them out.

I'm nominating your post as the single most IGNORANT and ridculous post for the rest of the year.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by sos37]
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