Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

Illinois IS one of the most politically corrupt cities around. Which speaks volumes about who Obama is and what his political "machine" is all about.

Come on BH, you know this is true. Why do you like this guy so much?

I believe Keyes has a valid claim. What is the big deal about producing
your certificate of birth? Logic dictates, if there was NO problem in the validity of Obama's birth place then this would be a non-issue. Why won't
he just turn it over and be done with this mess? WHAT is he hiding?


latimesblogs.latimes.com...

















[edit on 16-11-2008 by paxnatus]

reply to post by SourGrapes

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I suppose that is plausible also, but I'm more inclined to think that THIS IS the issue. I mean, what good does it do to distract people with this hiding something else to get into office when after in office it would still become an issue anyhow? The information he would be hiding would have to be pretty damning to use something this serious to hide it and if that were the case, someone would just bring it to attention after he was in an he'd be impeached.

What I find amusing... pathetically so... is that this spring I posted a thread about the exact same issue but in regards to John McCain being born in Panama and whether or not it disqualified him from running...

... I am sure if McCain had won and this issue was brought up about him... the same people on here who are making so much noise about the law the law... would be screaming about us bloody liberals trying to derail a legitimate election.

His birth certificate is under lock and key for security reasons and those that would purge its validity.

Secondly, his father was a US national. And like I said ealier, his mother was from Kansas. Under our laws of citizenship, American mother with a US national means an American baby.

The racism and legal fluffing of this matter causes many of us as citizens to knee jerk even harder to the left assuring this cancer never gets a significant hold on the nation again.

Peace

never mind

[edit on 11/16/2008 by greeneyedleo]

I also notice that not one of you have addressed the fundamental flaw is this whole non-issue... that with a U.S. born and bred parent... his mother in this case... he is automatically a citizen regardless of where he was born.

The avoidance of it tells me all I need to know about the people screaming so hard about it... they can't or refuse to address it because they know that they are wrong.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR

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True, but it's much harder to Impeach someone 'after-the-fact'. The point is to get the seat, then worry about all else later.

Another one to ponder:

Can it be factually stated that he lived in the U.S. for 14 consecutive years, prior to running for Presidential office? Isn't there rumor that he may have lived in Pakistan for like 10 years? (Before you flame - It's quite obvious that this wouldn't make it in a reasonable argument, and would remain rumor unless resourced.)

reply to post by grover

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As I posted in another thread, McCain's status isn't even a question. He was born on a military installation. A military installation, just like an embassy, is considered under law sovereign US soil.

No, not in a foreign land. On SOVEREIGN US SOIL.

I agree, it is an issue with BOTH candidates, but at least McCain had the scruples to be completely forthright before the public and the Senate. In fact, he was SO forthright that the Senate passed a resolution confirming his eligibility to run.

Senator Obama KNOWS that this is an issue at the top of many American's minds, and yet he will not simply produce the ONE PIECE OF PAPER that can bring it all to a total and complete end. So much for transparency.

Then how is it the state of Hawaii has certified it as legit if he hasn't produced it?

Again how is all of this revelent considering he is a citizen by birthright through his mother regardless of where he was born?

Agreed. Not as simple as that.

However, Clearly we are in dire need of a species / societal overhaul -
To do that , we must start at the base -
which would make honesty imperative. Imperative.

We have to begin to hold ourselves and others up to this standard -

Having said that - I must add - Too many rules and regulations have been made by the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and the inequality is so vast that there is much work to do... but we have to start somewhere.

Obama is more American than a lot of Americans that I know personally.

I really do not know why people are flaming him more than other democrats.
Maybe it's because he's black? If he was white would anyone question his location of birth?

well it's not your book and it's not your eyes and it's not your case

Oh, Jesus.

Anyway, I think he might be hiding that his parents weren't married. OR
That his birth certificate says his religion is Muslim because that's what his father wanted it to say.

Or any number of things. Or perhaps he's not hiding anything at all. He is under no obligation to show PUBLICLY his birth certificate. I'm quite certain he has shown his credentials and qualifications to the proper authorities.

With ALL the bruhaha about it, I'm quite certain someone, somewhere decided to check one more time and at this point, I think Obama's sitting back saying, "They can squirm all they want and think what they want. I will not bow to these demands unless and until the SCOTUS demands to see it, and then I will show it to them. NO president has ever before been demanded to prove their citizenship to the whole country and I will NOT be forced to do it because I happen to be "different"."

There is NEVER going to be a time when he is ordered to show his birth certificate to the public. He MAY be ordered to show it to the Supreme Court. But they can't override the Constitution and make him reveal it to the US. It's a private document.

And people ask why I like him so much or whatever. I support him, but that's not the REASON I think this lawsuit is so ridiculous. Hey, if it turns out he was born in Kenya, I will be the FIRST to call for his resignation or for him to step down. I just don't think he was. We would know it by now if he was.

reply to post by grover

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While searching online, for electoral college and presidential election questions, I did find this question from before:

President Elect FAQs

[snip]
Q If John McCain was born in Panama because his father was in the military, please point out to me in the Constitution where that qualifies him as a natural born citizen.

A. You're asking the wrong question! Try to find in the Constitution the definition of natural born citizen! It's not there, which means Congress decides what that means. John McCain was born on the Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the U.S. controlled Panama Canal Zone in 1936. Military bases and embassies have long been considered U.S. soil and children born on them (to American parents) are automatically considered U.S. citizens. As for the Canal Zone, a law was passed in 1953 that declared:

"Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States." (U.S. Code Title 8, Section 1403)

That doesn't mean it's settled though. Technically the issue has never been decided for determining presidential eligibility. But most think the rules that apply for every other aspect of citizenship apply to this requirement as well. In fact on April 30, 2008, the Senate unanimously passed a resolution stating that McCain was "a 'natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States". But don't be surprised if some political group still tries to challenge it!

This issue has actually come up several times before but wasn't decided satisfactorily due to the candidates in question losing. For example, in 1964, Barry Goldwater was the Republican candidate for President. Although he was born in Arizona, it was not yet a state at the time.

[/snip]

That website offers questions to quite a few questions that I've seen come up in this thread. They are actually quite easy to follow and put most answers into layman's terms, which is good for me!

Grover, all Hawaii did was confirm that they have the original vault copy on file. Nothing in the official statement says whether what is on the internet is the same as what is on the vault copy. It was more a non-statement than a confirmation.

As for his mother, because of her young age at the time of her son's birth, she was not legally able to automatically pass on citizen status to her son IF (BIG IF) he actually was born out of country.

ONE PIECE OF PAPER can make this a dead issue and Obama knows it, yet still does his best to avoid producing it.

But all the more reason to ask. WHY OBAMA? McCain actually WAS born outside the US, so I can see why people would ask. But Obama was born in Hawaii. Why was his birth certificate asked for in the first place? Why, when he was born in the US, like every other president we've had, was he the VERY FIRST US born presidential candidate required to prove it to the entire nation??

edit: grover, redhatty (above) is right.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by SourGrapes

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That is one of those cases where Joe Biden would take over until which time he has lived in the US long enough to become eligible. The only case in which that wouldn't happen is the one that is in question.

I still believe that the worst possible scenario for Obama is that it is found out he was born outside of the United States and is therefore, for some reason, declared not a natural born, but naturalized citizen and his candidacy is voided, forcing a special election between Clinton and McCain.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

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Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not siding with the right on this issue. I'm in the middle until this is resolved, but I think it is because there were concerns that his family was saying he was born in Kenya. So, they asked for proof of natural citizenship and that is still forthcoming.

I understand the question just fine. Like I said, considering McCain was born on Sovereign US soil, it isn't an issue. And when it WAS made an issue, McCain willingly gave up his information and had a team of lawyers ready to make sure that the McCain campaign was compliant with all laws. Obama has failed to provide the documents asked for, for reasons I don't quite understand.
But I'm moving a little more toward the idea that this is a calculated political move on Obama's part.