Representative Jim Guest champions the cause of victims of organized stalking and electronic harassm

uk.youtube.com...

This is a youtube video of Rep. Jim Guest discussing the issue of organized stalking and the groups that use these tactics. The discussion suggests that some corrupt authorities, satanic groups, societies and cults hound people to death using these methods.

The New York Times recently offered an excellent article using licensed mental health professionals to debunk gang stalking claims.

Source for the below excerpts are at: www.nytimes.com...

The sites are drawing the concern of mental health professionals and the
interest of researchers in psychology and psychiatry. Although many Internet groups that offer peer support are considered helpful to the mentally ill, some experts say Web sites that amplify reports of mind control and group stalking represent a dark side of social networking. They may reinforce the troubled thinking of the mentally ill and impede treatment.

Dr. Ralph Hoffman, a psychiatry professor at Yale who studies delusions,
said a growing number of his research subjects have told him of visiting
mind-control sites, and finding in them confirmation of their own
experiences.

"The views of these belief systems are like a shark that has to be
constantly fed," Dr. Hoffman said. "If you don't feed the delusion, sooner
or later it will die out or diminish on its own accord. The key thing is
that it needs to be repetitively reinforced."
...
For people who regularly visit and write on message boards on the
mind-control sites, the idea that others would describe the sites as
promoting delusional and psychotic thinking is simply evidence of a cover-up
of the truth.

The article looks at so called "proof of gang stalking" websites that we have seen on ATS before, like gangstalkingworld.com. The results of the research on this are pretty clear:

Vaughan Bell, a British psychologist who has researched the effect of the
Internet on mental illness, first began tracking sites with reports of mind
control in 2004. In 2006 he published a study concluding that there was an
extensive Internet community around such beliefs, and he called 10 sites he
studied "likely psychotic sites."

It also points out that its impossible to diagnose people as psychotic over the internet alone, which is a good point. And its also too early to figure out whether the presence of this sort of "group therapy" for those suffering from this will be positive or negative.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Excellent find, LLM. I was unaware such an article had been written, so recently, and so high profile!



I hope that more research is done along these lines, and hope that people suffering from delusions of gang stalking get the help that they need. Bringing such illness to the public eye is paramount in raising awareness, and with awareness comes funding towards treatment.

reply to post by JoshNorton


To be honest with you I sort of stumbled upon it. I subscribe to the New York Times and...for some reason I do not understand...this article was in the "style" section which I don't normally read. It was a complete accident that it caught my eye and I was able to find the online version. Whoever put the paper together that day must have made a mistake.

I was surprised that so much ivy league research was going on this matter, but I agree it something that needs further research by mental wellness professionals. Only by further research and more articles in the mass media can those suffering from these problems be helped.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

To be honest with you I sort of stumbled upon it. I subscribe to the New York Times and...for some reason I do not understand...this article was in the "style" section which I don't normally read. It was a complete accident that it caught my eye and I was able to find the online version. Whoever put the paper together that day must have made a mistake.

I was surprised that so much ivy league research was going on this matter, but I agree it something that needs further research by mental wellness professionals. Only by further research and more articles in the mass media can those suffering from these problems be helped.

So are you alleging that Jim Guest is in need of a "mental wellness professional"?

I read the article yesterday and know that this research has been going on for the past couple of years since several hundred of us in the UK and US have been campaigning for laws to be past and special police units to be set up to investigate organised stalking gangs. Normally the contributors to the studies have basically been reading the material on various websites and approaching the matter with a fully formed assumption that victims are mental cases.

Fortunately there many good people like Jim Guest and others in the UK are helping us to bring gangstalkers to book.

Ultimately I anticipate many of these criminals to be thrown into prisons and a world wide ban on secret societies.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by masonwatcher]

Scientologists have been acused and some have been found guilty of doing just that against those who try to leave the flock or refuse to knuckle under. I'm sure this organization is included in the study and should be taken to task.
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Not only Scientologist, but the KKK, the Stasi in the former East Germany and the Soviet Union. Interestingly, victims of these crimes were railroaded into mental institutions or committed suicide.

I do note lowlevelmason protests too much. I have meet some Masons who are totally stunned by this crime when I have told them about it and others recognise me and sneer right of the bat and engage in their stalking behaviour. I work as a building surveyor in London and my profession is heavy with Freemasons.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
I do note lowlevelmason protests too much. I have meet some Masons who are totally stunned by this crime when I have told them about it and others recognise me and sneer right of the bat and engage in their stalking behaviour. I work as a building surveyor in London and my profession is heavy with Freemasons.

You believe anyone who doesn't go along with your theories is part of the conspiracy. The New York Times article even describes that you would do exactly that. Its part of the delusion: everyone who doesn't believe you becomes part of the conspiracy.

The New York Times article says really all that needs to be said about this: the people who believe in this display classical symptoms of psychosis and these communities could make it worse because the delusions requires that it be constantly fed by self-affirmation.

Scientology does lots of things, gang stalking isn't one of them. Nor have I seen anywhere that the KKK, or any government has ever done so. These groups have all done lots of very bad things...but not gang stalking. In the case of government there is simply no need to: why gang stalk you when they can just throw you in jail or kill you.

There is also the obvious point that trying to argue by parallel example doesn't prove anyone is gang stalking you. That it may have historically happened before to other people (and I am not convinced it has, at least not with the organizations mentioned so far), does not at all provide any evidence that is happening to YOU.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by masonwatcher
So are you alleging that Jim Guest is in need of a "mental wellness professional"?

Quite possibly. I listened to the entire Gloria Naylor radio interview that you linked to elsewhere. She describes in detail how she went to such a professional for a number of sessions and that doctor deemed her schizophrenic. The only reason she stopped going to him was because the medication he prescribed didn't work. Brain chemistry is a sensitive thing, and not all chemical treatments work the same from one person to another. Rather than stick with a program and attempt to get better, it was easier for her to believe that government spies were projecting negative thoughts into her head when she slept.

reply to post by LowLevelMason

originally posted by lowlevelmason

You believe anyone who doesn't go along with your theories is part of the conspiracy. The New York Times article even describes that you would do exactly that. Its part of the delusion: everyone who doesn't believe you becomes part of the conspiracy.

You and your ilk believe anyone who points an accusatory finger at Freemasonry is a delusional, lying or has been rejected by a lodge despite a Mirror newspaper article I posted sometime ago reporting on a police Freemason gang assassinating a private detective. Also there was the Parliamentary Hansard record of a debate about a group of masons ripping off people of their assets and claiming the victims were mad when they complained. Then again there was the drug and prostitute running Shriners who were all Master Masons.

No I don't believe everyone who does not believe me is part of a conspiracy, don't stuff words into my mouth. In fact, those that do not comprehend what is being done to us cannot accept human beings can be so cowardly and despicable. It defies their idea of human nature since they cannot possibly understand the depravity of organized stalkers. Once it becomes common knowledge and these gangstalkers are exposed, I have a feeling therre will be lynchings in the street.

Finally Lowlevelmason, I get the sense that you are not a mason. I wonder why?




[edit on 16-11-2008 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by JoshNorton


I am glad you listened to the Naylor interview. Two things convince me that she is not schizophrenic; she still writes books that are being published and I don't believe there has been a serious case recorded of someone developing schizophrenia in their late 40s. I think that illness is a young person's condition. Of course you can be 80 years old and be schizophrenic but it would had to start in early youth.

I am sure someone will suggest that in order to accommodate organized stalking victims, clinical definitions will have to be slightly altered. They did in the Soviet Union and was phrased psychopolitics. A great way to neutralise dissidents, no?


[edit on 16-11-2008 by masonwatcher]

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by masonwatcher
So are you alleging that Jim Guest is in need of a "mental wellness professional"?

Quite possibly. I listened to the entire Gloria Naylor radio interview that you linked to elsewhere. She describes in detail how she went to such a professional for a number of sessions and that doctor deemed her schizophrenic. The only reason she stopped going to him was because the medication he prescribed didn't work. Brain chemistry is a sensitive thing, and not all chemical treatments work the same from one person to another. Rather than stick with a program and attempt to get better, it was easier for her to believe that government spies were projecting negative thoughts into her head when she slept.

Incidentally, can you please elucidate whether you believe Representative Jim Guest is schizophrenic because he believes organized stalking victims or he just is?

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Incidentally, can you please elucidate whether you believe Representative Jim Guest is schizophrenic because he believes organized stalking victims or he just is?

No, he'd be schizophrenic if he believed that he WAS an organized stalking victim. If he believes other people who say that THEY are organized stalking victims, he's either being patronizing because it's good for him politically, or he's just gullible.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
You and your ilk believe anyone who points an accusatory finger at Freemasonry is a delusional, lying or has been rejected by a lodge despite a Mirror newspaper article I posted sometime ago reporting on a police Freemason gang assassinating a private detective. Also there was the Parliamentary Hansard record of a debate about a group of masons ripping off people of their assets and claiming the victims were mad when they complained. Then again there was the drug and prostitute running Shriners who were all Master Masons.

No, I believe people who run around thinking the government is trying to control them and that hundreds of people are paid to gang stalk them need to seek mental help. You have further never posted any proof that freemasonry is involved in these delusions, so please stop making that up. Trying to accuse freemasons of things won't cure you, if your one of the people suffering from this. It just feeds the problems.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
No I don't believe everyone who does not believe me is part of a conspiracy, don't stuff words into my mouth. In fact, those that do not comprehend what is being done to us cannot accept human beings can be so cowardly and despicable. It defies their idea of human nature since they cannot possibly understand the depravity of organized stalkers. Once it becomes common knowledge and these gangstalkers are exposed, I have a feeling therre will be lynchings in the street.

You cannot expose that which does not exist. It IS common knowledge that people who need mental wellness help suffer from delusions of gang stalking. Gang stalking doesn't exist not because people can't do bad things, but because people are not going to go around and harass people for no obvious reason in massive conspiratorial plot where someone is paying hundreds of people to harass you. Logistically it fails at every turn, not to mention any conspiracy that large means the proof would be abundant and there simply is none for gang stalking.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Finally Lowlevelmason, I get the sense that you are not a mason. I wonder why?

Probably because your sense of perception is off - if you can't understand that there is no massive plot employing thousands of people from the age of 3 to 83 to harass people, your perception of me really doesn't matter. Not to mention I don't really care what you think, if I wanted to just act like a freemason I'd at least pretend to be the all-powerful 33rd degree.

reply to post by LowLevelMason

No, I believe people who run around thinking the government is trying to control them and that hundreds of people are paid to gang stalk them need to seek mental help. You have further never posted any proof that freemasonry is involved in these delusions, so please stop making that up. Trying to accuse freemasons of things won't cure you, if your one of the people suffering from this. It just feeds the problems.

Yet again inserting words in my mouth. Who said the government wants to gangstalk me? Either you are delusional or you have a reading comprehension problem.

You cannot expose that which does not exist. It IS common knowledge that people who need mental wellness help suffer from delusions of gang stalking. Gang stalking doesn't exist not because people can't do bad things, but because people are not going to go around and harass people for no obvious reason in massive conspiratorial plot where someone is paying hundreds of people to harass you. Logistically it fails at every turn, not to mention any conspiracy that large means the proof would be abundant and there simply is none for gang stalking.

Yet again you conflate the issue. I never said there was a massive conspiracy. In fact I have gone to great pains to say repeatedly that this form of harassment is conducted by a small group of people who use slander to engage others to get involved.

You cannot expose that which does not exist. It IS common knowledge that people who need mental wellness help suffer from delusions of gang stalking. Gang stalking doesn't exist not because people can't do bad things, but because people are not going to go around and harass people for no obvious reason in massive conspiratorial plot where someone is paying hundreds of people to harass you. Logistically it fails at every turn, not to mention any conspiracy that large means the proof would be abundant and there simply is none for gang stalking.

You are willing to accept Scientologist employ this but when the finger is pointed at Freemasonry you become personally offensive. You are in denial and in a state of delusion.

Probably because your sense of perception is off - if you can't understand that there is no massive plot employing thousands of people from the age of 3 to 83 to harass people, your perception of me really doesn't matter. Not to mention I don't really care what you think, if I wanted to just act like a freemason I'd at least pretend to be the all-powerful 33rd degree.

No your perceptions are of kilter. You are rude and a congenital a-hole. I put it to you that you declare yourself a low level mason in order not to be challenged on Freemason rituals and teachings.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Incidentally, can you please elucidate whether you believe Representative Jim Guest is schizophrenic because he believes organized stalking victims or he just is?

No, he'd be schizophrenic if he believed that he WAS an organized stalking victim. If he believes other people who say that THEY are organized stalking victims, he's either being patronizing because it's good for him politically, or he's just gullible.

Then why did you say he is schizophrenic. I think it was an instinctual reflex. As far as you are concerned, anyone that claims of being stalked and harassed is crazy.

Somehow I don't think a politician that gets himself regularly elected into office is gullible. Further it amazes me to think that Rep. Guest has a large enough constituency claiming to be gangstalked that he attempts assuage by championing their concerns.

I thing you are being disingenuous. What gives JoshNorton?

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Yet again inserting words in my mouth. Who said the government wants to gangstalk me? Either you are delusional or you have a reading comprehension problem.

I think you are now having delusions about your delusions. No putting words in your mouth, just quoting you directly. Perhaps you shouldn't say things you really don't mean if you don't want me to respond to them? Sorry, but I will not let you throw out baseless accusations without proof and not point out what you are doing.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
Yet again you conflate the issue. I never said there was a massive conspiracy. In fact I have gone to great pains to say repeatedly that this form of harassment is conducted by a small group of people who use slander to engage others to get involved.

This is amusing. You believe gang stalking is real. And yet, if gang stalking is real, it must involve a large group of people all be paid for and financed by another group of people who, for some reason no one but you knows, wants to stalk you. It is by its nature a very large conspiracy, because it MUST involve a lot of people IF what you say is true. And really, using "slander to get others involved" - yeah, because if someone tells me how bad someone is I'm just randomly going to decide that I want to gang stalk them. This isn't even plausible.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
You are willing to accept Scientologist employ this but when the finger is pointed at Freemasonry you become personally offensive. You are in denial and in a state of delusion.

You are beyond absurd and your constant comparisons to Scientology are bewildering. To begin with, there is no evidence that Scientology or Freemasonry does this - you have provided none. More importantly, there is a fundamental difference between Scientology and Freemasonry - Scientology is a religion with a political and public image agenda that employs people to carry out its agenda. Freemasonry is a fraternity based on volunteers. There is no reason for freemasonry to be engaged in gang stalking because it has no public agenda and it has no resources (all of it goes to building upkeep and charity), and there is no way that such a thing could go on without it being found out about.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
No your perceptions are of kilter. You are rude and a congenital a-hole. I put it to you that you declare yourself a low level mason in order not to be challenged on Freemason rituals and teachings.

I'm sorry that you get so enraged and hysterical that your points on gang stalking have been debunked, but seriously its not worth you getting so angry about it. Your opinion of me doesn't really matter and I really couldn't care less, because you base that off on who feeds your illusions.

reply to post by LowLevelMason

I think you are now having delusions about your delusions. No putting words in your mouth, just quoting you directly. Perhaps you shouldn't say things you really don't mean if you don't want me to respond to them? Sorry, but I will not let you throw out baseless accusations without proof and not point out what you are doing.

Delusions of delusions? You got to be kidding, you are a very sick man. Your argument skills are very poor. You deny, insult and are very forgetful.

This is amusing. You believe gang stalking is real. And yet, if gang stalking is real, it must involve a large group of people all be paid for and financed by another group of people who, for some reason no one but you knows, wants to stalk you. It is by its nature a very large conspiracy, because it MUST involve a lot of people IF what you say is true. And really, using "slander to get others involved" - yeah, because if someone tells me how bad someone is I'm just randomly going to decide that I want to gang stalk them. This isn't even plausible.

You seem have defined the meaning of gangstalking and how it works. Could you please enlighten me on gangstalking since you analysed so thoroughly and have come to the conclusion it does not exist?

You are beyond absurd and your constant comparisons to Scientology are bewildering. To begin with, there is no evidence that Scientology or Freemasonry does this - you have provided none. More importantly, there is a fundamental difference between Scientology and Freemasonry - Scientology is a religion with a political and public image agenda that employs people to carry out its agenda. Freemasonry is a fraternity based on volunteers. There is no reason for freemasonry to be engaged in gang stalking because it has no public agenda and it has no resources (all of it goes to building upkeep and charity), and there is no way that such a thing could go on without it being found out about.

Like I said before, you are very forget; either dementia or a lack of education. You forget my links and documents of corrupt Freemasons, laws against electronic harassment, FBI documentation on organised stalking and legislation against organised stalking.

You just sit there like a broken record skipping away the word, "delusional". You contribute nothing but sanctimonies contempt yet remain completely ignorant how to mount a counter argument.

I'm sorry that you get so enraged and hysterical that your points on gang stalking have been debunked, but seriously its not worth you getting so angry about it. Your opinion of me doesn't really matter and I really couldn't care less, because you base that off on who feeds your illusions.

I think you are sublimating here. The only angry person appears to be you. Don't forget it is you that is spending an inordinate amount of time debating things that he apparently does not believe in.

A very strange combination, no?

You also constantly call me crazy. Are you the kind of guy that baits mentally disabled people in your neighbourhood? If not then why do you bait me unless of course you are being disingenuous.

I'm sorry that you get so enraged and hysterical that your points on gang stalking have been debunked, but seriously its not worth you getting so angry about it. Your opinion of me doesn't really matter and I really couldn't care less, because you base that off on who feeds your illusions.

More sublimation. I am motivated by the organised stalking I am subjected. You, however, come across as sneering and rude. I also think you couldn't de-bunk your pet dog from a garden hammock. You live under delusion that by being prickly that you are a master debater when in fact you are, as we say in the UK, a master baiter.


[edit on 16-11-2008 by masonwatcher]

Enough. Masonwatcher, you've been debunked, and I will no longer help further your delusions. Please seek help. Slandering and throwing accusations at freemasonry because you seek to create some sort of "gang stalking" group that doesn't exist is not going to help you get better. You're a very angry person and seem very bitter, be careful, don't let it consume you.


[edit on 16-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Enough. Masonwatcher, you've been debunked, and I will no longer help further your delusions. Please seek help. Slandering and throwing accusations at freemasonry because you seek to create some sort of "gang stalking" group that doesn't exist is not going to help you get better. You're a very angry person and seem very bitter, be careful, don't let it consume you.


[edit on 16-11-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Boy! You are angry. Like I said, your comments were all sublimations.