L.A. and San Fransico, Modern day Sodom and Gomorrah

Originally posted by heliosprime
These fires are a warning from God to the righteous people of california to flee before the destruction of BOTH cities of sin.

The wrath of the Lord God will soon rain destruction of those who basphem his name demanding to corrupt "holy" marriage of a man and woman.

Repent or DIE...........

Heliosprime, are you speaking for God? Are you 100% sure these fires are a warning from God that the righteous should flee and that the cities will 'soon' be destroyed? As a Christian, I'm sure you know why it's important to be sure before making claims like this. Remember the test of a prophet.

so if god's an pyromaniac arsonist, then I should trust him?

so funny how HAARP, forest arson, and seismic weapons creating disasters, all going along with the biblical script.. con you all into believing that it's a singular invisible guy with a beard in the clouds doing it.

well if mankind IS a part of nature and IS the MIND of this planet, and IS the conciousness local to this area of the universe, then we're a part of god..

so I don't blame you because in a way.. you're right.. it IS god doing these things...
just not your fairy tale "good guy" version.



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Yes, you're missing something. Marriage/union is not a soley religious concept. The Bible does touch on it, but the Bible was written long after marraige existed. Do you think people didn't marry before Christianity came into existance? Do you think early pagans didn't have marraige/union ceremonies.

What you fail to understand is that not everyone follows, accepts, or bleives the Bible to be the final word, and should not be forced to live by it's doctrine.



I believe you are wrong ....modern marriage (Permission of the state,legal paperwork ..etc ) is not that old ..
In the days of the bible ......they did not do any paperwork and very few actual ceremonies (Unless you want to call a feast as a ceremony) ..then they go home and consumate the marriage (Bam they are married) ..

Another thing that keeps being said and needs to be addressed is that some of you say that MARRIAGE is not a religious thing ..And yet it was Christians who created the marriages we have today (Church sponsored was first .then state was later) ...........

The Romans had common law marriages ....

[The first recorded use of the word "marriage" for the union of same-sex couples also occurs during the Roman Empire. The term, however, was rarely associated with same-sex relationships, even though the relationships themselves were common.[12] In the year 342, the Christian emperors Constantius and Constans declared same-sex marriage to be illegal.[13]

From the early Christian era, marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no religious or other ceremony being required.[citation needed] Prior to 1545, Christian marriages in Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.[citation needed] The couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was not required. This promise was known as the "verbum." If made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was unquestionably binding; if made in the future tense ("I will marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. But if the couple proceeded to have sexual relations, the union was a marriage.[citation needed] One of the functions of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which was not obligatory. There was no state involvement in marriage and personal status, with these issues being adjudicated in ecclesiastical courts.

The average age of marriage in the late thirteenth into the fifteenth century was around 25 years of age.[14] In fact, during the 13th century in England it was unlawful for a woman younger than 24 years to marry. However, this changed, beginning in the 1500s, to 20 years of age.[15]

It was only after the Council of Trent in 1545, as part of the Counter-Reformation, that a Roman Catholic marriage would be recognized only if the marriage ceremony was officiated by a priest with two witnesses. The Council also authorized a Catechism, issued in 1566, which defined marriage as, "The conjugal union of man and woman, contracted between two qualified persons, which obliges them to live together throughout life."[16]

This change did not extend to the regions affected by the Protestant Reformation[17], where marriage by consent continued to be the norm. As part of the Reformation, the role of recording marriages and setting the rules for marriage passed to the state; by the 1600s many of the Protestant European countries had a state involvement in marriage.]

State recognition

In the early modern period, John Calvin and his Protestant colleagues reformulated Christian marriage by enacting the Marriage Ordinance of Geneva, which imposed "The dual requirements of state registration and church consecration to constitute marriage"[18] for recognition. That was the first state involvement in marriage.[citation needed]

In England and Wales, Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1753 required a formal ceremony of marriage, thereby curtailing the practice of Fleet Marriage.[19] These were clandestine or irregular marriages performed at Fleet Prison, and at hundreds of other places. From the 1690s until the Marriage Act of 1753 as many as 300,000 clandestine marriages were performed at Fleet Prison alone.[20] The Act required a marriage ceremony to be officiated by an Anglican priest in the Anglican Church with two witnesses and registration. The Act did not apply to Jewish marriages or those of Quakers, whose marriages continued to be governed by their own customs.

In England and Wales, since 1837, civil marriages have been recognised as a legal alternative to church marriages under the Marriage Act 1836. In Germany, civil marriages were recognised in 1875. This law permitted a declaration of the marriage before an official clerk of the civil administration, when both spouses affirm their will to marry, to constitute a legally recognised valid and effective marriage, and allowed an optional private clerical marriage ceremony.

In many jurisdictions, a civil marriage may take place as part of the religious marriage ceremony, although they are theoretically distinct. In most American states, a wedding may be officiated by a priest, minister, rabbi or other religious authority, and in such a case the religious authority also acts as an agent of the state. In some countries, such as France, Spain, Germany, Turkey, Argentina, Japan and Russia, it is necessary to be married by government authority separately from (usually before) any religious ceremony, with the state ceremony being the legally binding one. Some jurisdictions allow civil marriages in circumstances which are notably not allowed by particular religions, such as same-sex marriages or civil unions.

Marriage relationships may also be created by the operation of the law alone, as in common-law marriage, sometimes called "marriage by habit and repute." This is a judicial recognition that two people who have been living as domestic partners are subject to the rights and obligations of a legal marriage, even without formally marrying. However, in the UK at least, common-law marriage has been abolished and there are no rights available unless a couple marries or enters into a civil partnership.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dooper

"To be publicly "married" reduces the long-term institution of marriage and brings it down to the gutter where the homosexuals exist."
The only thing that has reduced the long-term institution of marriage are those who have been so privileged to have been practicing it all these years which in more than half of the cases winding up in divorce. Next you're going to try to defend the purity of the white wedding dress... of which let's face it... is a bit outdated if you consider the reality of the situation.

Thanks for your little attempt at communicating with the world around you. It seems that you're having a hard time accepting life on the Creator's terms... trouble accepting his own creations. You sound sheltered, scared... and of limited mind. The dots you choose to try to connect to build your reality are... interesting... to say the least. The real question to ponder is... what has you so afraid and hate filled when it comes to those who were born gay? Perhaps you are having some issues with your own sexuality and are afraid that if it can exist and be accepted out there in the real world, perhaps it can exist and you'll be left with no choice but to try to accept it in your own world. Hmmm...

No just stating Gods truth and will...............
\

and this right here is the reason we have so much hate in the world.....


people like you are the reason these people are out protesting. people like you voted for this unjust law, and they are using every right they have as citizens of the United States to protest it, the Freedom of Assembly. they are protesting for THEIR OWN BASIC RIGHTS as individuals of a "free" country. What perplexes me is how so many people can be on ATS and be that religious. How can you possibly believe in what you believe to be on this website and not realize that your religion is the reason that # like this is happening.

Stop believing in the made up knowledge that have historically promoted hate and wrongdoings and start believing in humanity. start believing in positivity and acceptance.

They can't stop believing. They can't even question, for that would be a lack of faith. They will not evolve anymore than the sad and barbaric precepts they so blindly stumble after. They are incapable of rationality, and as Descartes said "Cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore I am). These people "are" not. Which is a shame for them, and also for those they so vehemently stigmatize. The good side, if you stick with Descartes, is that theoreticaly, they don't exist.

I know these people so well. You can push thousands of arguments in their faces, explain that at least they should research the original translations of their little black book, if only to get closer to god. But no, they prefer to cling to institutions that appeared thousands of years after the bible was written, and interpreted it with political motives. And even intentionally "forgot" little bit's out. Or added some in.

But never will they falter in their shallow beliefs, because that would mean that their life would no longer have any sense. Which is kind of screwed up. Even if god existed, their interpretation of what he is supposed to have said is like claiming that "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" is a reliable depiction of the middle ages.

They are mad. Faith does that to people. When you live in a multidimensional world, and the brain you perceive it with is one dimensional, then it's kind of understandable. They cannot be in tune with reality. Only some form of wrathfull fantasy.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Homosexuals demanding to be "accepted" as normal humans..........

Oh wow, thanks for letting me know they are not "normal humans." I suppose they are pod people who suddenly sprung up in the fields of unknowing farmers before they could be eliminated.

I can sleep easier now secure in this new knowledge.

Don't allow those who accuse you of being bigoted or judgemental to stop you from exercising your religious freedom!

While some may wish to suppress your rights by saying you should be quiet, keep to yourself, etc., the Word of God demands that you speak out against behavior that is contrary to the Law of God (and since your religion is based on the Law of God, those who would suppress or ask you to stop obviously do not understand the First Amendment).

America's future is the result of America's blatant dismissal of God (sooner or later they will run out of excuses to blame it on and have to admit it).

Prophets are cry'in out everywhere - eventually they shall adhere, for God won't give them any other logical option.

reply to post by heliosprime


yeah... by the way...the fires were caused by high winds call the "santa ana" winds...which have been happening before any of your "sinners" even knew about a country called america, let alone a state called californina.
go back to your church and home, and stay out of the business of people that actually reside in the modern world and not the 5th century. this is a country of laws by man, free will, and freedom, and i will not kneel down to any mythical being or god. the very constitution under which you have the freedom OF religion, forbids and makes unlawful most of the rulings of your mythical being or god. your refusal to live under the laws of the constitution should invalidate any right you have to vote or participate in the governing process. you will continue to have the " freedom of religion", but that is as far as it goes as it pertains to invoking and forcing your beliefs on the rest of us. this is not iran, or the taliban, and you sir, are not arbitor or controller of my fate.

you are so weak of spirit, that you depend on a book written by men...yes just men ...from 2000 years ago to prop up your own morality. you are unable to judge kindness, decency, and logic. you cling to life, as it was lived 2000 years ago, and the guilt, fear, and downright meaness toward your fellow man that accompanied that era. your vile and ignorant rantings
are designed to besmirch and belittle, the soul of the people that you say you are trying to save. you make a mockery of jesus's own words of wisdom. and you delight in making miserable the people who you know nothing about. what a wretched and humiliating person you must be to your wife and children, who must listen to a man, verbally foaming at the mouth, twisting the very meaning, if not the words of kindness and forgiveness from the very book you have your nose buried in. to ignore someone like you, is to deny any credibility and power that you may have left. you sir, are the anticedent to the book you worship upon. please expunge yourself from this board and never come back


[edit on 16-11-2008 by jimmyx]

reply to post by heliosprime


Then GOD should have made equal partners for everyone- and not have let certain of us to fall thru the cracks and feel inadequate and left out, huh?

This is pretty much in response to everything up to this point. To the thread's originator - while I disagree with you're sentiment on anyone who isn't a straight, you have the right to voice your opinion. I'm just not sure you've picked the right website - unless your goal was no higher than that of getting people riled up. If you do truly believe those things, I'm sorry. It seems to me that you speak more from fear than anything else. All I can do is try to point out the harm such thought and action causes. And cause harm it does. Jesus taught love and forgiveness not hatred and fear. That good man wanted people to live to a *higher* standard, not drag themselves into the mire with hatred. While Jesus calls for all to live in a righteous manner he also calls for you to love *everyone* without reservation. Something to think about.

For those who want to blame spirituality and faith for blind fear and hatred - well you're wrong too. Fear and hatred are the "bad dogs" of human nature. We all suffer from them. The godless just use other justifications. Look to the history of communist Russia for a prime example. While I myself look to a non-personifiable form of divinity I am most certainly a believer. I just choose my personal hatreds differently.

For everyone - hatred, like belief or faith - is a *choice*. We all choose what to believe and hate. Choose wisely.

reply to post by Ismail


Ismail,

Very interesting statement here.

They are mad. Faith does that to people. When you live in a multidimensional world, and the brain you perceive it with is one dimensional, then it's kind of understandable. They cannot be in tune with reality. Only some form of wrathful fantasy.

Very very interesting and telling statement you have made here.

There is a place in the book of Acts where the Apostle Paul is come before the Roman governor Festus who has as his guest King Agrippa and his wife Bernice.

The reaction to Pauls statements when Paul is asked to give testimony is exactly your reaction. "Thou art mad!!" This pretty much gives veracity to the Bible by your reaction. Thank you for this confirmation. I was wondering if anyone on this thread would so do.

However on the other hand...looking at many of the posts by my fellow Believers...there is something missing which is very telling.

That something missing is a concept taught from the beginning of the Bible to the end. It is through and through if one thinks and reads the whole context of the Word.

God's people do not define who and what they are by their sexuality...ever. They do not glorify their sexuality.
This should be a clear instruction because it is clear that this is what the world and the world system ...after the god of this world...has always done. To glorify our humanity by glorifying our sexuality.
Any people who decide to glorify their "humanity" will always return to paganism and the glorifying of sexuality. It is the best they can possibly do. This is peak performance of human intelligence...glorifying humanity by glorifying sexuality.

Notice ..I did not say people do not have sex or sexuality. I said that people do not define and glorify themselves by sexuality.

This particular group identified in this article of the OP...sex and sexuality..sexual orientation is their sole claim to fame. That's it... peak performance.

Yet ..ironically ..so many of us have been so programmed by the media, politicians, and public education...that no one thinks this is odd or strange from this standpoint of glorifying ones self by sexuality. THe Believers out here are themselves so far gone by the programming they dont even get is as is clear by the posts on this thread.

Oh..incidently..further food for thought here...as I have stated many times on other posts. The body politic pays for and finances public education. They teach this ignorance from the public school forums because they need to groom the next bunch of emotionally charged voters to be predictable and malliable to their needs in the voting booth. This issue is another way of gaining votes by the body politic ..especially in high electorial votes states like California, New York..yada yada yada. These issues must be constantly kept in the forefront by the media to keep emotionally charged people on the string and predictable in the voting booth. This is one avenue by which the system is rigged against the public at large. The body politic, public education, and the media will combine to whore out the souls and will of the public on issues like this for votes and power...they are all related in the big picture. They are together working against the public will....with deliberation for votes and power.

THere are other issues similar to this one out here in play to control the public..to gaurantee votes..to short circuit the public will throught the electorial process.

The sad truth is that many of my Christian Brethren are themselves so ignorant that they miss the concept of why it is abomination.
There is no instruction for a Believer to define who and what they are by their sexuality...ever.

This is also because it is abomination and was practiced back then by most of the nations of the world in ancient times. Glorifying sexuality was, in most nations, the prefered method of expression. Particularly around the holy days of most of these nations. By this conduct they defiled the land.
They are attempting to defile the land in the same/like manner today.
To force defilement on everyone ..against their will and over their objections. All of this while teaching and preaching tolerance.
One learns one thing very quickly...even by the posts on a thread like this.
Many who claim tolerance are not tolerant at all.

It is also very sad that most preachers/priests do not teach this history to their flocks such that they, the flocks,run around in ignorance and are easily fooled and intimidated by those who adhere to the world doctrine.

Believers should know this history. Sadly ..most do not.

For the Believers out here who are steeped in the Word...If you read carefully the posts by many on this thread..they are also working to make Light into Darkness and Darkness into Light as we were foretold.
You are seeing it clearly in several of the posts on this thread. They are spreading confusion in the name of "Humainty."
Do you know the name of the author of confusion???

A proper person does not define who and what they are by their sexuality..ever.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom