I think missionaries should be outlawed

I enjoyed your post up until that point. I understand we have many missionaries, but the only reason it looks bigger than any other country is because of our population of Religious people. We were not the first ones to do mission work, and other countries still do it. I don't think you should be blaming America.

Though I agree with your opinion about mission work or missionaries, etc.

[edit on 11/15/08 by panda319]

I know that it's not only Americans that are doing missionary work and trying to spread their way of life, it's just that I live in America so I'm speaking of what I see. Not blaming Americans, just disgusted by how all the "modernized" nations seem to think that just because people in another nation live in smaller houses, eat different animals, or don't live in cities then they are in need of our "help".

someone who attempts to convert others to a particular doctrine or program
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I believe the meaning of the word "missionary" seems to encompass a wide variety of groups.

Well I have to speak from personal experience, CHRISTIAN missionaries (now days, now that they are not controlled by the CATHOLIC church) do a lot of good, they heal the sick (usually with medicine), feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and they tell people about the truth they've found, they don't force beliefs onto anyone, becoming a Christian is a choice, if you are forced to be a Christian, then you aren't one simply because it's not what you wanted to become, so forcing someone is useless.

My dad pastored a church, we fed people, gave them clothing, even gave them jobs and a place to stay, what was so wrong about what we did? Some of my best friends were the people you probably sneered at while you walked down the street, homeless people, drug dealers, prostitutes, they were my friends, there lives changed for the better too.

I've known missionaries who dedicate there lives to helping people in some of the places in like Africa who are teaching people how to build a house, how to grow food, ect., they are'nt killing people or spreading disease.

All you've heard are the bad stories about the dogmatic Catholics from hundreds of years ago, you have'nt heard (a better choice of words would be "you've chosen to to hear") the good stories, about the good they've done.

Are you also against people sharing the truth they've found?
If you are, then you must really hate ATS.

-Lahara

reply to post by TheRandom1


There is nothing wrong with helping people out, in fact that's a great thing. I think what we're talking about is heavily persuading someone to turn to Christianity along with that help.

We even have this problem here in the states. Some chuches, ( I said some!) will hand out food to the needy-----but they will make you sit through a church service before they hand out the food. Now, I know people are appreciative, but why the strings attached? Why can't they just hand out the food without forcing people to sit through a religious sermon?

reply to post by Clark W. Griswold


What's really awful is some of the runnaround the churches put up at women's and unwed mother's shelters.

This makes me believe churchs have a motive for helping. Converting to Christianity. Why not just help because it feels good and because it's the right thing to do, without the strings attached?

I don't believe in the Christian god, but I am donating and helping all the time. I don't care who receives what I give, I just feel good giving.

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold
reply to post by TheRandom1

 

There is nothing wrong with helping people out, in fact that's a great thing. I think what we're talking about is heavily persuading someone to turn to Christianity along with that help.

Yes, this thread should just be renamed to say "I think trying to impose religion on uneducated countries is wrong" because that's what everyone's really "butt hurt" about anyway. I would just have to disagree with getting rid of missionaries - even if they are feeding religion into these third worlds - the positives out way the negatives by a long shot. You have a church - that believes that God - wants you to shed light to these poor countries and aid them in your journey. Missionaries aren't just feeding religious doctrine, they are educating these countries on multiple levels, building homes, schools, providing food, and creating personal relationships with these people. why don't people understand that It doesn't even matter if those people believe what's is being said to them. Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by juveous]

Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

I'm not from a 3rd world country, I'm from the US. Twice in my life I have had to receive food from churches. I did appreciate the food, but I didn't appreciate sitting through a church service. If they truly care about you, there would be no strings attached.

I don't have a bbq at my house and tell all the homeless, hungry folks invited that they can't eat unless they sit through a bible reading. If I cared about them, which I do, they could eat without the manipulation.


I do understand that educating folks, helping them, feeding them and clothing them are a good thing. I'm not saying not to do it, but do it out of the goodness of your heart, instead of doing it to try to gain followers. It could be a religious experience for you, but don't try to force the receivers into your beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

They could at least have an optional service. Those that want to attend can, and those who don't care do, don't have to. Now that would be fair.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

reply to post by Clark W. Griswold


It isn't a prerequisite that an attempt to help people have a religious componant.

There are plenty of charities out there that are unaffiliated with religion, or may have religeous support without putting a dogmatic condition on their services.

Edit: I want to add in that religeous or otherwise, I think there are few people who help the poor simply out of the goodness of their hearts. Helping the poor is in its own way a business.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by asmeone2]

My friend and I were just discussing this issue yesterday after watching this video from brasschecktv that was sent by another friend that is serving in Iraq and is utterly sick of what the missionaries are doing. Please watch. I hope I am doing this correctly.

www.brasschecktv.com...

Im a Christian Mystic and I disagree. The Enlightenment that comes from Jesus is an update from everything else.

It's like using Atari vs, having Playstation 10

Keeping historical records of these cultures is vital, but a spiritual "update" is inevitable.

The Enlightenment that comes with being a Christian Mystic is "MIND BLOWING", Illumination, Third eye open, Transcendence, Selfless Love, Peace beyond understanding, Ego death, and Union w/ God.

If I could, I'd get a megaphone and drive around the world telling people how Amazing it is being a Christian. Priceless life changing, best experience of my Life!!!!!

OF course u do get those "fundamentalist" missionaries that just want to judge and pillage everything thats not Christian, living in a literal box. Thats not how you do it. Just Love everyone Selflessly with your Enlightenment and you become a Living testimony.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by dominicus]

[edit on 15-11-2008 by dominicus]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold
reply to post by TheRandom1

 

There is nothing wrong with helping people out, in fact that's a great thing. I think what we're talking about is heavily persuading someone to turn to Christianity along with that help.

We even have this problem here in the states. Some chuches, ( I said some!) will hand out food to the needy-----but they will make you sit through a church service before they hand out the food. Now, I know people are appreciative, but why the strings attached? Why can't they just hand out the food without forcing people to sit through a religious sermon?

Yes, I know some churches do that, I think it's wrong, but just because there are a few bad apples doesn't mean that we should cut down the tree.

People hold Christians and the church to mythological standards, you must understand that any religion, any government, ect. can be twisted and distorted, used to control others. It's like if some people came into a bank with clown masks on and robbed the place, does that mean all clowns are bank robbers? No, it just means that some people with the mask of a clown did it, same goes with "insert religion here", just because someone does something in some other groups name, even has followers, doesn't mean that they uphold what that religion or group stands for, much like the majority of Christian churches today do not preach about what Yeshua said for us to do, instead they preach that if you give them money, then God will bless you, it's a sad, sad thing really, but there are some churches that still preach and teach what Yeshua taught us, to love your enemy, to feed the hungry, to sacrifice yourself for others.

-Lahara

reply to post by flyingwoody


Outlawed everywhere, yes, and punishable by rock salt via .410.
I live in Florida and I had some pushy bible thumper at my door today, wanting to pass off his gospel as the one "true" gospel, the one real religion in the world.
Made me so damn mad!
Ok, if I choose to go to the mall and someone sticks out their hand with a leaflet, I have a choice; I can either accept it or say, "no, thank you" and walk on. But to be on a mission, as this creep was, to walk all the way up the driveway, from the street to my door, past the “no trespassing” and “private property” signs, disturb me in my home, get the dog barking like mad, the cat freaked out, the grandbaby crying, because this loser, who has obviously never been to my neighborhood before and has never met me, loves me and is worried about the final disposition of my fragile and yet immortal soul, to further insult the injury to my privacy by attempting to argue with me after I already said “no thank you, I’m not interested, please leave” goes to demonstrate the unscrupulous tenacity of these vermin. You see, this guy removed MY CHOICE of not wanting to deal with him in my own house.
So, I stand by in full support of the OP that they should be outlawed and if it were up to me, I should be given the right to shoot them with twin loads of rock salt as they scurry back under the rock that they climbed out from under.
Ok, I know that was a little bit passionate, but I hate those creepy people. They are always wanting in my house. They can’t seem to look me in the eyes but for a moment, they smile way too much and they all seem to smell funny! Creepy people, just creepy!

I agree with the OP that missionary work is inherently bad. I mauintain that it's fundamentally arrogant.

I think God wants us to witness to our family, friends and neighbors by example...not go out into the world and jack with other cultures who are minding their own business.

This is where I think Christianity and Islam both run amok. Why does anyone need to be converted? Did not God create us all, as we are? Or some intelligent design? Okay, we evolved this way so we're just right...

Anyway - Let's say I meet a cannibal...assuming he doesn't try to eat me but he follows all of the customs and traditions of his culture and religion - he is the best cannibal he knows how to be- but I am only a half hearted Christian, which one of us is closer to God? Is one of us going to hell?

Somehow, I don't think so. And if anyone is - it's me.

[edit on 15/11/2008 by kosmicjack]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold

Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

I'm not from a 3rd world country, I'm from the US. Twice in my life I have had to receive food from churches. I did appreciate the food, but I didn't appreciate sitting through a church service. If they truly care about you, there would be no strings attached.

I don't have a bbq at my house and tell all the homeless, hungry folks invited that they can't eat unless they sit through a bible reading. If I cared about them, which I do, they could eat without the manipulation.


I do understand that educating folks, helping them, feeding them and clothing them are a good thing. I'm not saying not to do it, but do it out of the goodness of your heart, instead of doing it to try to gain followers. It could be a religious experience for you, but don't try to force the receivers into your beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

They could at least have an optional service. Those that want to attend can, and those who don't care do, don't have to. Now that would be fair.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold

Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

I'm not from a 3rd world country, I'm from the US. Twice in my life I have had to receive food from churches. I did appreciate the food, but I didn't appreciate sitting through a church service. If they truly care about you, there would be no strings attached.

I don't have a bbq at my house and tell all the homeless, hungry folks invited that they can't eat unless they sit through a bible reading. If I cared about them, which I do, they could eat without the manipulation.


I do understand that educating folks, helping them, feeding them and clothing them are a good thing. I'm not saying not to do it, but do it out of the goodness of your heart, instead of doing it to try to gain followers. It could be a religious experience for you, but don't try to force the receivers into your beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

They could at least have an optional service. Those that want to attend can, and those who don't care do, don't have to. Now that would be fair.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold

Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

I'm not from a 3rd world country, I'm from the US. Twice in my life I have had to receive food from churches. I did appreciate the food, but I didn't appreciate sitting through a church service. If they truly care about you, there would be no strings attached.

I don't have a bbq at my house and tell all the homeless, hungry folks invited that they can't eat unless they sit through a bible reading. If I cared about them, which I do, they could eat without the manipulation.


I do understand that educating folks, helping them, feeding them and clothing them are a good thing. I'm not saying not to do it, but do it out of the goodness of your heart, instead of doing it to try to gain followers. It could be a religious experience for you, but don't try to force the receivers into your beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

They could at least have an optional service. Those that want to attend can, and those who don't care do, don't have to. Now that would be fair.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold

Put yourself in their shoes - would it even matter? you're getting help from someone who obviously cares about you.

I'm not from a 3rd world country, I'm from the US. Twice in my life I have had to receive food from churches. I did appreciate the food, but I didn't appreciate sitting through a church service. If they truly care about you, there would be no strings attached.

I don't have a bbq at my house and tell all the homeless, hungry folks invited that they can't eat unless they sit through a bible reading. If I cared about them, which I do, they could eat without the manipulation.


I do understand that educating folks, helping them, feeding them and clothing them are a good thing. I'm not saying not to do it, but do it out of the goodness of your heart, instead of doing it to try to gain followers. It could be a religious experience for you, but don't try to force the receivers into your beliefs. That's all I'm saying.

They could at least have an optional service. Those that want to attend can, and those who don't care do, don't have to. Now that would be fair.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

Originally posted by Tinman67
Missionaries come in many forms, from many places. Those that attempt to replace religion with science are as much of a missionary as anyone.

Difference being...

I can't recall the last time a group of scientists came to my house uninvited trying to convert me to the theory of evolution

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy:
I wonder when missionaries come across one of the 'enlightened' on their travels, what comes of it?... I'd love to see it take place. See the exchange

I imagine the enlightened one pouring them a cup of tea and just smiling the whole time. Or something to that affect

I'm not enlightened, but I've been in that situation.

I was stuck at home with 3 littlies, one of them autistic and another severely handicapped and needing to be revived several times a day to keep him alive. Between that and a violent husband I was going stir crazy when three Jehovah's Witness ladies knocked and asked sweetly if they could have some of my time. Being eevil I couldn't resist the chance to have some fun.

I had strong beliefs of my own, which I would never push onto anyone, but I thought "fair is fair" and told them they were welcome if they agreed to the concept of equal time. Once a week they'd come and spend an hour explaining their beliefs, then I'd spend an hour explaining mine. And, LL, as you guessed, all over cups of tea and home-baked cookies. I'd read anything they wanted, provided they would read something I'd lend them of equal length.

This continued for 6 weeks, by which time they'd decided to leave their church. Sadly, when they next visited, there was an angry bloke in a black suit accompanying them, who made them return all my books of Sai Baba's talks and packets of the Vibhuti they had started wearing on their foreheads.

After that I was black-banned by the Church of Latter-day Saints.

All I've had to do since when I've moved house is tell the first JW doorknockers who I am, and they never come back.



[edit on 15/11/08 by Kailassa]