Can we all finally agree that we are going to see The Great Depression II?

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posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Warning signs are everywhere!!!

Hedge-funds that are going to scramble to sell stock holdings to meet investors call on money. It is the Saud's BUYING 3.6 BILLION$$ in physical gold. Now china is doing the same.

It is huge companies about to go broke like GM & Ford, layoffs unprecedented since the great depression, banks not even lending to each other, and our government getting deeper and deeper into debt.

Now the foreign countries who were giving us credit, like china and Saudi are starting to hedge AGAINST the dollar, that coupled with ALL of the EXTREMELY BAD economic outlook and with no improvement on the horizon makes for a time when you can throw your technical trader handbook out the _

I may not know jack about trading, but I'm no idiot when it comes to understanding the warning signs.

And the sheer amount of warning signs flying by faster than one could read means we are in deep #.

No my friend...I would have to say the markets will continue their downward spiral and the killer variables will mandate this.

I see another 1k (total) loss over the next few weeks and then another 1k loss sometime in January.

From there, no telling where it's gonna go...




posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:17 AM
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I'll tell you this, if the credit freeze gets worse and consumer as well as commercial credit truly dries up for any length of time, we will see a true depression. I believe right now there are some indications that we're in alot deeper than a simple recession. If a formula was developed to incorporate the fractional number of employees which I call "partially unemployed" (meaning employees who were once full time but who's hours have now been cut, meaning they're making a fraction of what they did under full employment, but are not considered unemployed by the official numbers) based off of lost wages vs what they were making when employed for full time hours and reincorporated these ridiculously excluded "frustrated workers" into the unemployment numbers, I believe we'd be seeing double digit unemployment, possibly even unemployment closer to 20% than to 10%. I also believe that we're going to witness massive, massive contraction in the domestic product, retail industry, and in the services industry.

There are a few things which could be done right now to keep this from spiraling into a depression, IMO. Instead of worrying about handing over Trillions of dollars to the financial institutions of the world, the government should be concentrating on investing in infrastructure projects and reinvesting in our nation's agriculture & manufacturing sectors. Every state has dozens of major highway projects which are in desperate need of funds and which are desperately needed to be undertaken. Our agriculture industry would benefit tremendously from an infusion of capital towards the goal of helping the family farms and smaller agribusinesses modernize their processes and their methods, meaning better quality, less expensive produce in our stores from local farms and family run operations rather than megaconglomerates. We could also reinvest in cotton and start investing in industrial hemp crops, both of which then should lead to a reinvesting in textile mills across the country.

These three sectors would benefit this nation so much if they saw a major infusion of capital from the government. It wouldn't be wasted on million dollar bonuses and half million dollar resort trips for CEOs, either. We'd see a boom market for engineers, for laborers, and even for the small mom & pop stores which could suddenly afford to purchase the less expensive Made in the USA raw materials (ie: produce for bakeries and cloth for local dress makers, etc), stay in business, and pass their savings on to the consumers while still turning a respectable profit margin for their business.

Our government also needs to eliminate international free trade and reintroduce classic tarrifs and trade restrictions. At some point we have to reach a stage where it doesn't mean jack squat to us how bad the economy in Europe is, because we need to be worrying about our own economy first.

The problem with this is that the cows & horses have already been stolen, so we'd be locking an empty barn. When our government started allowing foreign nations to purchase scores of our federal debt, particularly the Asian nations, we became screwed. The minute those trade barriers go back up, China will dump their dollar debt and outside of this nation's borders, our dollar will become a laughing stock. I'm not exactly sure what solution exists for that problem (aside from hanging those who allowed it to happen for treason... but I won't say that too loudly for obvious reasons.)



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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If you can keep your head when all about you
are losing theirs... - Rudyard Kipling


Now IS the time to invest in my opinion. Don't come bitching about the rich being opportunistic... you had the chance as well and you shirked it because you couldn't stomach the risk.

I've put my money where my mouth is, lets see what happens. I mean either way I have nothing to lose. If the markets revert to fair levels (ie about 30% of the way back up) or to book value, I stand to make a bundle. If armageddon occurs, what use do I have for zeros in my bank account balance?



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. I will admit that we are in tough economic times but I don't think we're going to get much worse. I also have word from a friend in retail that sales have picked up just in the last week or two. He commented that last weekend was as busy as a mid to late december weekend usually is which is pretty odd for late october.



Originally posted by dizziedame
reply to post by anachryon
 

People are shopping, going to amusement parks and packing in the restaurants.


My question to both of you, and to everyone in general . . . how much of this consumer confidence is bolstered by the use of credit cards . . .

I was in a shopping mall last night at about 7 p.m. . . . you could have gone bowling.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by GoalPoster
I was in a shopping mall last night at about 7 p.m. . . . you could have gone bowling.


My husband and I work in a restaurant, we have friends at all the bars and restaurants in our town, and we have friends working at restaurants in the surrounding 'burbs.

People are not going out to eat in the Main Line Philadelphia suburbs - not like they have been. Business is down 20-50% across the board. The people that do come out are spending much less, avoiding apps/desserts or ordering a sandwich instead of an entree.

There are nights someone might come in to our (small) restaurant, see 5 or 6 tables occupied, and assume we're doing okay. Unfortunately they don't see that those are the only tables we'd had for the entire dinner shift.
They aren't there the nights that we have 1 table...or none...either.

I'd like to know where people are packing into restaurants because I'm going to go get a job there.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by gordonwest



Can we all finally agree that we are going to see The Great Depression II?
It sounds like a new movie.






This is part one... the true story of what one man had to do to overcome the Great Depression in the 30's.

great vid.

I'll post a video showing what part II might look like...



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by dizziedame
reply to post by anachryon
 

You beat me to this question.

Would also like to hear the OP's indicators.

I guess I'm in another world. People are shopping, going to amusement parks and packing in the restaurants.

I'll wait form the OP to answer your question before I give my opinion also.


Dizziedame, you don't have to wait until the OP posts a response to answer anachryon's question. As a matter of fact, the OP may not post a response. What you know may be important to the original poster of the question. If you have an appropriate response to the question, go ahead and post it. At this point in time, anything that any of us posts with regard to helping other people understand the serious predicament we're in economically, it would be greatly beneficial to those who just don't get it.

My repsonse to the question is in two links:
www.prisonplanet.com...

First, observe the video where Gerald Celeste, a world famous trend forecaster, predicts a likely scenario for America's near future.

Second, observe a presentation that I deem to be "The Most Important Presentation You May Ever See" at this point in time:
www.chrismartenson.com...

Hopefully, this information moves people to start "taking action". And believe me, if it moves you in the right way, you'll want to start taking action the moment you fully grasp the information you extract from Celeste's and Martenson's messages. And if it moves you strongly enough, hopefully you'll want to start sharing this information with as many people as possible.

Respectfully,
Mr.K.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Knowledge

Dizziedame, you don't have to wait until the OP posts a response to answer anachryon's question. As a matter of fact, the OP may not post a response. What you know may be important to the original poster of the question. If you have an appropriate response to the question, go ahead and post it. At this point in time, anything that any of us posts with regard to helping other people understand the serious predicament we're in economically, it would be greatly beneficial to those who just don't get it.



Ahhh yes, I can't agree more with this statement. It doesn't matter what my idea of the next Great Depression is, or if it will happen or not. It is of my opinion (My age: 30) that I've seen enough evidence that supports that the Economy is in for one hell of ride.

Let me remind people... The great depression didn't happen in 1929. That's just time period the stock market had a serious fall. Look at the numbers:

stockcharts.com...

In 1929-1930 the DJIA went from 198.96 to 294.07... That's a 32% increase. All this did was give investors a false sense that the economy was going to pick back up. The people that fel for it, lost everything within the next few years... The smart people that waited till it hit rock bottom, made the real profit.

It was finally in 1932 where to DJIA hit 41.22... An all time low... but then jumped up nearly 100% to 79.93 (within a few months time)... Who had money to buy up almost every stock listed in the DJIA? The wealthy elitist.

So it is of my opinion that a stock market crash could benifit some very wealthy people that will have the money to buy up stocks for pennies on the dollar. Not everybody wants to see the market suceed right now. (Buy Low sell High? remember that?)

But that's not the point I'm trying to make... that's just a theory.

The point I'm trying to make is that a Great Depression is going to take time to finally show it's face. Many of us on ATS see it's inevitality. My only question is: Is this by design? Is this part of the Plan?

I don't see how the economy is going to rebound when unemployment and cautios spending is growing. Didn't govonor Arnold Swarzenegger say his state alone needed $20+ Billion? (think about that for second)



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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Sign's the depression is here and getting worse:

Thousands of companies closing or downsizing

Food prices rising faster than any time in two decades

Oil prices fluctuating with no real solid reasoning
$120+ in august and now less than $65 a barrel, demand my ass.

Every state requesting a bailout

Auto industry requesting a bailout

Every public and government program asking for bailouts and assistance

Katrina survivors still living in tents and trailers

Retail spending is at an all time low

Gun and ammo sales are through the roof

Housing market has burst its bubble nationwide

Tent cities growing daily nationwide

and more!

Google all this stuff



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by ghaleon12
 


I hope Obama has a trick up his sleeve because he is surly going to need one.
We are headed for hard times. Got ready, it's coming.

Peace,
Grandma



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by warrenb



Every state requesting a bailout


Katrina survivors still living in tents and trailers





Google all this stuff




Do you have more information on these two details?



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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I agree this is more than a measly recession. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

Doesn't mean that opportunities won't abound for those positioned to take advantage of them but it does mean the "Average Joe the Plumber" will be stressed to his limit.

It also means we can't expect a turnaround anytime soon.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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What we are witnessing here is the beginning of the economic, energy, and environmental free fall that will cause our way of life to drastically change forever within the next four years as predicted by Gerald Celente and Chris Martenson. By the end of 2012, our country is expected to operate under a new paradigm shift. This shift could include massive cases of homelessness, food shortages, chaotic riots, death camps, bio-chip implants, and some of the worse cases of human rights violations in all of history combined. I believe that Christians refer to this as the Tribulation Period.

Respectfully,
Mr.K.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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Ok, I've been looking this up and we are no where near as bad as we were in the eighties. and the eighties were nowhere near as bad as the Great Depression. The whole cause of this is, you guessed it, stupid people like you. Sorry to say this but don't see anyone lining up at bakeries looking for bread to old to sell. I realized another thing, the USA, while being complete jerks, have wrapped the world economy around them. we fail, they fail. So we have two possibilities my friends, the world plunges, or the world floats. And there's no need to plunge, we don't have reduced production capacity. All we need to do is keep on keeping on. the rich may have a hard time, considering their wealth is entirely in pointless items and money. any intelligent, educated, thrifty person should be able to not only stay where they are at, but rise up. Also anyone saying it's the perfect time to invest is stupid, there is no perfect time to invest, at any given time your chances of making money and losing money are the same, given you aren't stupid.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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I have no idea what depression 2.0 is going to look like, but I will say this... This economy is broken on a fundamental level. It was never designed to last forever, and is now in it's death throws.

Will we make a somewhat smooth transition to the next economy or not is the question. When I say smooth, I mean life remaining somewhat normal.

All bets are off IMO, but I wouldn't wager against things getting really bad for at least a short while.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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Incomes have not kept pace with inflation for so many years that people simply do not have an income stream that can support the standard of living Americans once enjoyed. We have been kidding ourselves for years while being ripped off royally by price gouging, credit card gouging and so forth.

2009... a year of high drama and pain.

2010... Great Depression Numero Dos



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 02:13 AM
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G20 update

news.bbc.co.uk...

"In his address at the end of the summit, Mr Bush said there was no doubt that the financial crisis facing the United States and many other countries was a severe one.
He said it had even been conceivable that the US "could go into a depression greater than the Great Depression".

"We are adapting our financial systems to the realities of the 21st century," he said.


Have no fear though, they have it under control. Heres one of the key issue they agreed on.

"improvements to financial market transparency and ensuring complete and accurate disclosure by firms of their financial conditions"

Maybe we'll be privileged enough to be told where the 2 trillion went that our grand kids will be paying back to the fed. LOL


Another link, same story.
www.npr.org...



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 03:21 AM
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posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by Doomsday 2029
 

No, we are not going to SEE the second edition of The Great Depression, we are going to EXPERIENCE it.

Hey, Doomsday, you wanna see the teaser trailer? Yeah?
Alright . . .


Bon apetite.






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