It occurs to me that every abductee has mind programming such as "You are mine" etc etc done to them by aliens. That whole spiritual attitude to them that i witness could just be another mind program.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
That whole spiritual attitude to them that i witness could just be another mind program.

...and right there, as they say, is the rub...

I'm also conscious that the *beliefs* I've formulated, strategies and processes etc could all simply be a mind-screw...be it externally influenced, or quite possibly INTERNALLY influenced ie:I've merely convinced myself of x, y, z...

It may seem to me anyway to be a remote possibility given the depth of the *feel* to it...but a possibility nonetheless.

Seems indeed to be the 'logical' answer.

Though again, working in Mental Health for so long I'm also aware of just how powerful a persons beliefs are...no matter how wierd and wonderful they may be...if they hold that as their truth, their reality so strongly...then attempting to convince otherwise can at times be as fruitful as whispering into the wind.

I guess at the end of the day be it programming, be it spiritual, be it physical, be it power of the mind, be it delusion, be it psychosis, be it reality, be it Ronald McDonald in his Tooth Fairy outfit...IF whatever course you take, decision or opinion you make brings you some solice...then hey...



Peace.

Originally posted by EldersCouncil
I walked away from this war a long time ago and for some reason feel like I am being drawn back in. Any ideas why I would feel this way?

To be honest dude I couldn't give you any definitive answer...I'm picking you yourself would likely hold the answer to that question.

However - to toss out an idea:
I kinda think all of us have a calling of some sort. I know that word 'calling' is so overused and abused...but for me that word is merely means 'That which I'm meant to do'.
Much like people have physical traits and abilities...some are blessed with an ability to sing well, to run fast, to free-dive well etc.
Of course those traits/abilities can be built upon, developed, refined and honed...but the base material, the initial 'clay' they have to work with may be seen as being there from the start - what they choose to do with it however is a different story.

Take my friend who is now working with a Healing Group for instance.
He's a real smart cookie...real 'on to it' when it comes to I.T. Indeed his career pathway was/is IT, developing banking systems and the like.
He made a TON of money doing that for a while...certainly a skill he has.
Nowadays he works part-time in IT. He works pretty much just enough hours to earn enough money to pay his bills, buy food etc.
He could certainly work fulltime in IT - and numerous prospective employers often try to entice him into working for them and get paid the big dollars again...but he doesn't.
For him he has a place within that Healing Group...what he brings, the skills he shares, the work he does there to him is his *calling*.

This Healing Group - like many - is certainly a non-profit organisation. It doesn't even charge those who come. If there is any payment it is via what we call 'Koha'/donation. That Koha can be anything...even nothing, as its something that isn't expected but is given if you feel like it. There is no ill feeling or anything if no koha is given - as some simply have nothing to give.
Koha is often a baked cake, some veges from their garden, a fish caught, a song sung, a smile given...anything. Its not the object...but the aroha/love behind it.
Which is good for a number of reasons:
- It ensures that the work is 'true'. That it isn't motivated by self gain, money, kudos...but rather is motivated by the desire to assist those who require assistance.
- Those who access their services also tend not to have much money anyway.
What money they do receive doesn't even come close to covering the basics like power/phone...they fundraise and dig deep in their own pockets to continue existing.

Some people say to my friend "You walked away from all that money to work here amongst us? Wow - what a sacrifice to make!"
His response "No way. The real sacrifice for me would be if I didn't"

...some things perhaps we were 'meant' to do...even if only to find our next path.


Peace.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
It is not about genetics. It is about souls.

I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say this. What is your definition of a soul? Remember, I wasn't raised to believe in such things. Perhaps there is a more concrete definition that I could relate to?

Originally posted by alien
However whether or not what they held a belief in - however *unscientific* - is a crutch or not is debateable. To me its not so much whether something is spiritual or whether its scientific...its whether it works for you consistantly that matters.

We all have things we accept as our 'building blocks' if you will upon which we form our beliefs, what we hold to be true, what we accept as our reality. Some may draw those lines based on less verifiable building blocks...they may well be building blocks that they have found effective/valid, that they have found via experience ring true for them. Others prefer the hard concrete undeniable building blocks that can be shown to be concrete, shown to be blocks, shown to be built upon.

That's just it. Belief systems crumble all the time. Why would I want to build a model on a swamp when I can have the solid stability of good, solid Canadian shield bedrock? Why would I take a spitball shooter to a World War? I realize that everyone's realm of experience differs and I suppose if one has never been to a war zone, a spitball shooter might seem sufficient if you spent your whole life on a playground. If you have a coping mechanism/schema that works for you, great! In fact, I'm really jealous that I can't have the security of knowing that my proverbial "stockpile of armaments" is sufficient protection against all the sneaky surprise attacks the world has to throw at me.

Being prepared, is particularly important in dealing with threats to our own personal survival and security. If I were to try and convince myself that aliens only want my soul, for example, then I can rest easy because I don't believe in such things. How can they take something from me that does not exist? Now, what do you suppose would happen if I took that attitude when, what I should have been doing, was preparing to shield my child from abduction (the kind that does not involve returning the victim) by searching for new means of repelling the perpetrators prior to becoming a mother? Finding the solution before the problem even has a chance to develop is key. Once we lose that opportunity, it could be too late.

Furthermore, if I were to develop a concrete solution in my own search for "building blocks" as you put it, then I have engineered a solution that does not just work for me, but for others as well, regardless of what they believe. Science is accessible to everyone without discrimination. If you want to believe in the Easter bunny, that's perfectly fine, so long as you follow the requisite procedure to protect yourself in a crisis. Spiritual beliefs, while they may work for you, cannot protect me. Even if I accepted your beliefs to the degree that you do, there are no guarantees that I will be equally successful in their execution and utilization.

Originally posted by alien So we come to relinquishing control over our own fate. Is control over ones own fate a monopoly offshoot/outcome of the spiritual or the scientific? At some point we place our *faith* in something...whatever that is. So I guess at some point then perhaps we may be seen as reliquishing some form of control via that acceptance of *something* as our building block. IF however that building block later crumbles...well...we then go looking for a better one. But until it does, then we tend to stick with it.

I suppose that would depend on whether or not you accept the idea of "free will". I am open to the possibility that physics has already pre-determined everything and that ultimately, thermodynamics will always have the upper hand. On the other hand, I also recognize just how depressing it would be to accept the complete and utter lack of control over one's own fate. Why bother with life at all if it's all just a matter of physics? Surely the universe will find other ways to increase entropy in our absence! What does it need me for? In fact, why does it matter what I believe? It won't change the fate of the universe anyway! Existential depression, anyone?

Originally posted by alien ...there is a feeling...at times a very strong assertion...that things like faith and spiritually are the bastion of the weak-minded. Of those who are perhaps 'too lazy to think any more', instead find it easier to simply say "Its ghosts" or "God did it" <-- read that many times right here on ATS. To me I kinda feel that we relinquish some amount of 'control' when we accept something as a given of sorts. We take some kind of 'breather' when we do so. We stop 100% 'thinking' - if only a little tiny bit - when we accept something as *true*...be that *truth* a spiritual one or a scientific one. Bit like a "Okay. Got it now. It works. Its shown to work. I'll tackle the next unknown now" kinda thing. At some point we reliquish our 'control' to the method and/or material.

I realize that all of us need to find some sort of balance between what we perceive and our own basic, human needs. All of us are compelled to find meaning in the world and priorities will differ from person to person. I prefer external facts (observable by most people) over internal, spiritual comfort (the unique perceptions & preferences of an individual) but others choose the direct, polar opposite. Shallow people exist on both sides who willingly accept just about anything they are told. There are scientists who accept models without question, just as there are deeply spiritual people who immerse themselves in the study of their faith (intellects in their own right).

Originally posted by alien Probably about to get slammed to the eyeballs by all the Mathematicians and Scientists (of which I'm patently not one ) in the house for saying that...but please know I mean NO offence by that at all and also likely didn't convey my intended message properly...

None taken, whatsoever. I think you did a fantastic job of expressing your views. In fact, I can't remember the last time someone who described themselves as "spiritual" explained themselves so eloquently. I think it's important for both sides to come together on this issue and I hope everyone appreciates what we have to say, even if they don't completely agree with us (for reasons of their own).

[edit on 18-11-2008 by X-tal_Phusion]

Originally posted by X-tal_Phusion
What is your definition of a soul? Remember, I wasn't raised to believe in such things. Perhaps there is a more concrete definition that I could relate to?

How about if we call it your life force? That which leaves a body when the body is dead. That which makes a difference between a living and a dead person. That which is eternal. Is that a help?

I like that description spacecowgirl, it is what I feel when thinking of what this essence of me is.

1. It is possible that the people/families are sharing mass hysteria.

2. It is possible the aliens are tracking families like the wildlife scientists track families of animals to check DNA

3. It is possible the people are making it up to sell books.

All three of these scenarios are possible. It is difficult to tell what is happening unless there is physical evidence to back it up.
So far, researchers just use the hypnotic regression sessions and call that proof when it is open to fantasy and suggestions. There needs to be a change in the research done to find out if there really is anything to these cases, or is this a symptom of a type of unknown mental illness. No matter what answer it is, it is serious and needs addressing. The problem is most researchers want the answer to be aliens, and not the possibility that this could be mental illness.

Alien,

I can relate in some ways to your answer of "path".

On the one hand it is a matter of knowing what was experienced, and choosing not from fear but from understanding. While on the other a matter of determining whether there really is a choice. There are times I beat myself up asking myself if perhaps I did something wrong, failed in some way to see something that should have been obvious. At the same time there is a sense of that things happened the way they did for a reason. I apologize if this sounds cryptic, but I am selecting my words very carefully here.

I feel that with your Maori background that there is a level of understanding perhaps within a cultural context that allows you to understand certain realities better then those of us with a western cultural influence.

When I walked away from this path almost 20 years ago, it was due to what in some aspects could be view as an accident, in other aspects as negligence, and from a third point of view could be seen as sabotage. Even though what I was shown at the time and through the years has consistently pointed to it being something that needed to occur, along with a sense of completion, I find it difficult to accept the outcome. The mind has a difficult time grasping not only the implications of what occurred but also the level of thought and planning that must have gone into acquiring such a desired outcome. I walked away because I no longer wanted to be used in such a manner. It was indifference coupled to a sense of although understanding why the sacrifice was made things could have been handled differently. I try to tell myself I would no longer be the fool walking into places angels fear to thread, but I feel this is something more.

I write this to you because you hinted at a spiritual battle space, one in which you conquer fears, or learn lessons for use in later life. To me your words spoke of an inner truth, from someone who was there. I would point to this space when questioning why things run in families, an innate ability to step thru the looking glass. Is it chemically based, genetically based, or simply something that is taught? Do lineages go back to medicine men or shaman origins, healers that have passed this knowledge in someway unknown to us? Maybe it is like stepping thru time, a drive for knowing that places these families in the path of such experiences. Did our ancestors or our future relatives move something that impacts our current reality? Perhaps we are the ones who modified it and affected their reality. The question would remain though; how and why did we do this and if not us then who?

Maybe this new path is to answer that question, considering that it was never answered or explained. I feel faith has taken me this far, however gnosis of right or that an action is for the correct purpose does not necessarily mean having the reasons behind the action. I walked away because I felt it was not my place to question for the reason why and could not continue without this knowledge. To step back thru though to walk this path again with what I know of it almost seems insane, so yes I have avoided it whenever I could.

I have much to mull over now, a balancing of sorts, before deciding on a direction.

Anyway thanks for the tidbit, I felt I owed you the above, after you took the time to point out what you felt it may be.

I apologize if this is off topic or if I am rambling too much, just let me know and I will readjust.


[edit on 19-11-2008 by EldersCouncil]

Originally posted by EldersCouncil
There are times I beat myself up asking myself if perhaps I did something wrong, failed in some way to see something that should have been obvious. At the same time there is a sense of that things happened the way they did for a reason. I apologize if this sounds cryptic, but I am selecting my words very carefully here.

*bolding for emphasis

...personally I think thats the key. Falling over and skinning ones knee still teaches us a)skinned knees hurt, b)the ground is hard when fallen upon, c)watch where we place our feet and look out for obstacles.

I try to tell myself I would no longer be the fool walking into places angels fear to thread, but I feel this is something more.

Would love to hear more...though am also highly conscious of how risky it can be to bare ones inner self anywhere...be it online, in real life, even face to face with family/friends we trust deeply.
The fear of ridicule, of judgement and other possible fall-out certainly encourages us to as you put it "...select your words very carefully..."
U2U is always available if you so choose.

I write this to you because you hinted at a spiritual battle space, one in which you conquer fears, or learn lessons for use in later life.

Like you I am also being very conscious about only letting out what I'm comfortable letting out.
Those 'battles' and 'dreams' referred to would warrant a separate thread in itself.
I'm also conscious that every bit of what I've posted here could quite easily be seen as just the ramblings of a mad man.
I guess those who know me personally would have a better understanding...so aren't surprised in the slightest if people here think that.


Thanks for your input...very much appreciated.

Peace.

Abductions are undertaken in specific areas selected according to their geography ,the victems are simply of the human species forget about family lines or racial connotations--human--.Anyone in the family that is targeted can be abducted if necessary but, children are the main targets.Implants are put into children ,and other things are also done.There is a period of time when the events occur that encompasses several "visits",for some reason one visit isnt sufficient.There are lost time incidents later in life after childhood ,possibly random maintenance calls,one type of implant is a tag.The abductors follow all of our physical laws on earth and someone can interrupt an abduction and become an abductee themselves.Someone who has never previously been abducted can be abducted with an abductee who suffers a lost time incident or maintenance call.Night or day dont seem to matter to the abductors.Sometimes several family members will be abducted individually and have different but similar stories.If your family has lived in a geographical area for a long period of time encompassing several generations it is likely that your family will suffer repeated events ,but more because of WHERE YOU ARE THAN WHO YOU ARE.It only matters who you are after the first events when they need to check up on you.I dont think there were as many implants used prior to the 50s as there were during the 60s to the present.There has been a dramatic and alarming increase in events and implants.Events happen at varying frequencies because they are results orientated, they are not random act of nature.The dramatic increase is cause for concern.The bottom line being that the motivation behind any event or implanting of a human on our planet without our explicit prior permission is a crime against humanity and needs to be treated as such,our level of technology and understanding and compassion as human beings is not open to question by any species or any race of earlier humans.If there is a need presented to us we will respond as we choose and if that response is one of denial then we have the right to assert that denial ,and dont believe that violence is the only way to assert that denial,we can use co-operative thought and communication to create an environment where it is much more difficult to divide and conquor the human race.Disclosure about something is imminent ,I was personally abducted by humans so I cant presently subscribe to the weird alien stories although I may very well be under-informed,in any case the human race has a right to know how many of us have been victims of events,because WE ARE NOT 100%SURE what was done to us,or how many there are.Families who have been lucky enough to have recognised that several members have been abducted should, ALL REMEMBER WHERE THEY LIVED AT THE TIME OF THE EVENTS ,THIS WILL BE A SAFE PLACE IN THE FUTURE GEOGRAPHICALL SPEAKING!DO NOT FORGET THE SIGNIFIGANCE OF WHERE IT HAPPENED. You dont have to work for NASA to know that the family unit is the strongest link in the chain of humanity,someone for some reason is breaking our moral belief system in order to STRENGTHEN our link!!why??We know why it is families now ,but not the real WHY?The historical implications of family abduction patterns are irrelevant due to the less transient nature and shorter lifespans of our forefathers,the relevance is in the INCREASED FREQUENCY OF FAMILY ABDUCTION EVENTS.My ancesters included two women neither of whom were bluebloods but both women achieved queenhood against stupendous odds,another co-started a new age splinter-group religon that now has millions of followers,if one of these people had been abducted what are the odds I would ever hear about it??I do not believe that family lineage has any thing to do with current abduction event patterns although it is a certaintity that family style events have been occuring for as long as man has recorded his history.We are all still hoping that the cause is benevolent .

I see UFO's on a regular basis. I typically see the black, pod-shaped variety. Once, I was watching a falling star. It halted in mid-air and I saw that it was a metal object; then it sped off in the opposite direction.
In NC, I saw a rod, a four-foot rod, dull gray in color, traveling about 100 mph 200 ft. in the air. Both ends were blunt, so it wasn't a missile--too slow to be a missile.
In North Florida, I began seeing the pod UFO's every morning. Then, the chemtrails began and constant helicopter activity.
In South Florida, I am seeing white, dome-shaped UFO's nearly every day.
I am on a watchlist and have been under surveillance since 2001. Although I have several advanced degrees, I am able only to work minimum wage jobs. I am typically fired from or forced to quit these jobs. One company hired a security officer to watch me, and this went on for three years. I have been unemployed now for two months, and I am very fearful that no one will hire me ever again.
In 2001, helicopters would buzz my home every day/night. Unmarked police cars were staked out around my home, and the police were constantly stopping me and trying to arrest me. At this time, I had several experiences with aliens, and I wondered if the alien activity alerted the military/police or vice-versa.
I saw a reptilian alien and a watery, bluish, tall alien at that time. The reptilian one was looking in my kitchen window. The previous night I'd heard a large creature on the roof, then this being peered in the following night. It looked like the creature from the Black Lagoon, except that it was brown and short. It terrified me. I pretended not to have seen it and slept with the lights on for the next six months.
The other alien peered in my room to see if I was asleep. Typically, I would hear a scratching sound, fall asleep, and have strange dreams about space travel.
I have also seen a small, gold orb, a very solid, shiny object, come close to me in the yard. When I looked at it, it shot off.
I have had numerous experiences with ghosts as well.

"What is being done to people like myself who have been through events is "our minds are being held open--full throttle--longer than other people",the prime learning period is extended ,There is no special plan or curriculum,we are simply force fed enough material to open up our perception of reality enough to include the whole human species instead of our immediate family ,or our bridge club, or our town, or our church, or our country,the true gift is the natural perception that the PLANET and humanity as a whole are how we need to see our reality.We include, support ,and feel a need for all of the perceptions that I listed in the prior sentence , however what is most important is that NONE OF THE PERCEPTIONS LISTED ARE BARRIERS TO OUR ULTIMATE PERCEPTION OF A UNITED SPECIES ,ALL WITH THE SAME PERCEPTION AND FOCUS MOVING FORWARD IN A UNITED DIRECTION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY--THE INTERNET WAS A GIFT,WASNT IT? I mean that expanded minds develope an expanded perception of FAMILY--they percieve their family to be our entire species,mankind,humankind,humanity,our planet,our physical environment THE LINK GETS STRONGER.There are people who are able to accomplish this perception without an implant,but historically these have been very old humans by the time they have "had time to absorb enough knowledge". Younger humans usually make history and consequently spread their own, usually violent brand, of perception . The TYPES of knowledge HENCE PERCEPTION passed on to all of humanity using this method was limited and progress was ABSOLUTELY DEPENDANT ON RECORDED HISTORY DUE TO SHORT LIFESPAN and limited information exchange.Dependance on recorded history is our achilles heel as a species.If you arent personally able to witness an event the story will be bastardised many times over in its telling due to differences in PERCEPTION of the people exchanging the story--not difficulties of intelligence or language but differences of PERCEPTION.This is a built in self-destruct sequence.Why is it that we can write words in a language we can all read ,tell the same story to each other ,but be unable to sing the same song or percieve the same world of possibilities.Humans can easily defeat this self-destruct sequence by changing our perceptions independantly from our physical limitations of lifespan-or when we choose ,not when our age or lifespan dictate.Why WAIT? we can change our OWN PERCEPTIONS ANY TIME WE CHOOSE by excercising our FREE WILL to listen to all humans on our planet.What we all feel is relevant to an accurate perception. NOT WHAT IS FED TO US IN A DIRECTED MANNER FROM THE FIRST TIME WE HEAR WORDS THAT DONT COME FROM A HUMAN MOUTH ie. media .This is what I mean by "strengthening the link"Implanting us makes us percieve our family in the Species or Global way.Given the right ability to acess a large enough volume of information,ALL OF HUMANITY would find themselves with a commmon perception, it is a natural consequence of being human .Natural individuality physically has caused us to believe that individuality in perception is natural when ONLY THE PHYSICAL INDIVIDUALITY IS NATURAL.Someone "blocked"us from percieving this FACT .For us the link is stronger.I am running out of space ,sorry.During my event I was first almost taken permanently, then given a choice TO LEAVE AND NOT RETURN.The{ directed or offered?} perception of justified seperation from immediate family mentioned by others during events is simply an attempt to stop "FAMILY OBLIGATIONS" as being percieved as individual-by the abductee, to instead percieve"family" as all of humanity.It makes you able to be mobile anytime and remain 'FREE".Some event participants have been prevented from having children "naturally" for these reasons.We only hold information and a new perspective,during a coming global event we are the darkhorses or the longshots for a fast recovery of the species.The gov. wont hide us ,because we are the seeds M.Bluestar talks about.

Hello everyone,

TRied to read as much of this long thread as i could. I agree with the bloodline theories. I came accross some info on a website that it is indeed about blood, that is how abductees will be known, and hunted down. Also the B-negative blood, as someone else mentioned is what they are after. But this person also mentioned RH-negative blood, as important, which according to some resesarch I did, means there is some reptilian DNA in the blood. Which could mean, they are tracking hybrids, they have created, as well as strictly human DNA?

It seems to relate to something more sinister, this woman on this webiste, who was an abductee, talked about the hidden jews, going way back in bloodlines, and how thru their blood they would be known, and that is how the aliens would hunt them down. Maybe because Jesus was really a jew, and they are trying to prevent the meek from inheriting the earth, ? going back to the bible?

Also , someone mentioned timelines, I have experienced this, being jumped around to parallell universes, when I went away for a week and a half. There is a tie in with demonic bloodlines, such as the Disney bloodline, and at times it really did appear to be "a small world after all" What I am saying is, there appeared to be dimension where everything was smaller than it had once appeared to be.

This might be a little off topic, but I tried to mention it in another thread started, and people tried to act like i was psychotic. While I was away, for a little over a week, some awful thing s happened. Has anyone heard like on Coast to Coast or elsewhere that the greys or whoever will drain the blod out of animals, and leave them for dead? Well, while away, they did this to me, not completely, it must have been an attempted experiment, but fear is what they feed on, so maybe that is why they did it. Anyway, I could feel blood going through my arteries, or however that works, and ;then coming out, where I urinate, and yes I am female, and no it was not my period, It was rapid, and the first thing I thought of was , oh #, they are doing it to humans now!!

I had done some research about the Book of Enoch, and demons are the nephuillium or giants, who are the ofspring of angels and humans, well they are their spirits of these giants, who God got rid of in the flood, but they are earth bound and inhabit people bodies , I beleive. They may take over peoples bodies in different timelines, so depending on what timeline onw is in, that version of the person will be taken over. I had come accross this quantam physics research, where this guy at Oxford said that the universe can split into parallell universes, when somethign major affects it, and thus diferent outcomes can be had, which means ,a person could die in one outcome, and survive in another? Which means there can be VERY different versions of each person depending on what dimension a person is in? How this all ties in, I only can wonder, but there seems to be elements to evil beings in different dimensions, or possibly taken over by these demons, or maybe reptilian in nature, that are trying to hunt down every last one of those with these certain blood types, trying to take over the planet even, and maybe eradicate any last; human DNA?

This may seem strage, but as I write, more, I discover a little bit more of the truth. For some reason, my perpetrators have chosen to erase my memory, and have destroyed my heart , lungs and given me cancer, All because I would not admit to being Schizophrenic, which is their supreme cover!!

Originally posted by designer1

This may seem strage, but as I write, more, I discover a little bit more of the truth. For some reason, my perpetrators have chosen to erase my memory, and have destroyed my heart , lungs and given me cancer, All because I would not admit to being Schizophrenic, which is their supreme cover!!

I am very, very concerned for you.
I hope you are OK, but your post wills me to ask you some tough questions.
Have you sought out medical help in relation to: The blood loss you believe occured.
Your heart and Lungs, and your cancer.
The schizophrenia that you won't admit too, but believe is a cover for the aliens actions ie: the blood loss, cancer and organ damage.
Have you ruled out the Schizophrenia as the cause for all other incidents and beliefs?
Do any of your family have similar experiences?

M heart goes out to you, as do my thoughts and prayers.
Take care.

I don't think the other begins whom have discovered us would interfere.

My two cents.