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Let's be honest here

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posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by jam321
 


I can't comment on that. I disagree with Obama on that one.


!!!


Umm... what do you mean you don't agree??

I thought you were in love with Obamamessiah!? How is this even possible






posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by roknhrdcor
We fear that he will start taking away our rights, mostly. i.e.:

1) Our right to bear arms against oppression and tyranny.

2) Our right to privacy, by not repealing the Patriot Acts, or reinstating the Posse Comtatus Act.

3) Instilling greater taxes.

4) Not prosecuting the Republican establishment for warcrimes or treason.

5) Further MISinterpreting our Constitution.

6) NOT disbanding the unconstitutional I.R.S. or FedRes, and NOT enforcing executive order 11110

7) Being generally manipulated by the financiers of governments (Central World Banks, who are murderous treasonous luciferian criminals)

8) Allowing gay-marriages (outrageously immoral and illogical), denying the rights of the unborn, and expanding public education regulation.

9) Diminishing the sovereignty and dignity of the States.

10) Allowing military secrets to continue, allowing microchipping to continue, allowing U.N. troops on U.S. soil, and allowing FEMA concentration camps (NWO/Fascist/Anti-Liberty)



Can you honestly say that (with the exception of #1 & #8) that McCain would not have done all of these things had he won the election?

This current hate campaign against Obama is ridiculous, it really does give the impression that a lot of Republicans are a bunch of gun-toting Klan loving hicks! Did you not see how the rest of the world reacted to Obama's victory? Take it from that it's a good thing, because we were all beginning to really dislike you guys because of the Bush years...



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


Cut it out.
What is being shared will not be undermined by you.
THE F_ING POINT IS....
He is the same as the last, as the left wash's it's right. If you don't see this flawed and broken system, the liar's and actor's, the Hypnotism and NLP, the abuse of our love and sharing, oh yea this is boiled to a head.
I am not scarred, we shall all die, thus is the great balance of life.
No good or evil, only action or lack of. Shall you continue your blind path towards the plastic material that has been worshiped.... Worshipped over the Architect that has created this perfect Universe, I challenge YOU to forgive your fellow man, forgive yourself, and prepare mentally and physically for the worst.
P to the 7th
Proper Previous Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Semper Fi
And let Peace prevail



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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OP stop being so arrogant. I'm as much a left-leaning Dem as anyone and have supported Obama for a good while now. However, I believe Obama should HAVE TO submit his birth certificate and until such time we should be at least a little skeptical of him. I'm sick of these administrations picking and choosing what laws they are allowed to break. As much as I like Obama and am happy we elected him, if he's not a natural born citizen then throw his ass out, plain and simple.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Irish M1ck
What are you really afraid of?


Irish - it's been stated over and over and over and over what people are afraid of with this guy. It's been very clear. What is really strange is that Obama supporters refuse to see what has been stated and instead try to blame it on racism, or 'fear of the unknown', that just is not there.

We know exactly who and what Obama is (and by 'what' I DO NOT mean black so no one bother going there
) - and it is very scary that he is going to be POTUS.


Originally posted by Irish M1ck
So, basically, you're saying you'll do this anytime a democrat is elected.

Check out the threads from 4 years ago. John Kerry. His wife.
Kerry's 'Christmas in Cambodia' and his Winter Soldier lies and Terry Kerry's mouthing off ....

It happens every four years and the democrats pull apart the republicans just as much.


edited immediately to fix quote


[edit on 11/15/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Funny that you didn't answer it. I don't want to go read 80 threads that beat around the Bush. If there is something substantial to be worried about, you should be able to state it in 1-2 easy sentences with good support afterwards.

It's not that difficult.

reply to post by BrokenVisage
 


I don't really want to argue about that in my thread, since there are around 5-6 other birth certificate discussion threads going on.

However, he already had his birth certificate verified by the Hawaiian State Department of Health. Why is that not good enough?

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


They would love to believe that wouldn't they.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Irish M1ck
Funny that you didn't answer it.

Funny how you've been told these things dozens upon dozens of times - by me and others - but you still are asking the question 'WHY'. Learn to listen!


But here are a just a few of the many reasons - AGAIN -

His severe lack of experience.

His severe lack of understanding of the international stage.

'Wealth redistribution' - straight out of the marxist play book.

His numerous flip flops and lies.

his nefarious associations and all that includes

his acceptance and participation in anti-white and anti-jew racism for decades.

His plan to disarm america

His anti-white statements If a white politician had made anti-black statements ...

'typcial white person' (poor granny) :shk:

His soak the rich and soak the middle class increase in tax policies. And yes, the 'rich' threshold keeps getting lower. And I totally disagree with punishing those who are smart enough to make more money and making them support those who don't work. It kills production. Those who are smart enough to know how to handle the stock market or have their own business will back off and not bother because any money they make will be sucked up in too-heavy tax burdens.

His reward the lazy and punish the productive socialism intent.

Obama is anti-2nd amendment He wants to disarm law abiding Americans - leaving us prey to criminals.

His behavior stinks. Obama gave Hillary the finger and he knew he was doing it and so did the crowd.
He did this type of thing more than once.

His plan to cut NASA spending for 5 years. He's an idiot if he thinks he can cut NASA programs for 'just' five years then start them up again. It doesn't work that way.

etc etc etc. NO MYSTERY HERE. No reason to say 'let's be honest'. People have been being honest and yet those who support Obama like to insinuate 'racism' or 'fear of the unknown' - which is pretty damn weak.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


None of those are to the point. They beat around the bush, but none of them actually reference what you think is going to happen that is so scary.

Obama's friends: So what? What are you hinting at? What do you think he will do?

Obama against nuclear proliferation: That is to the point, but I guess we have opposites of opinion on that.

Anti-Jew: Really? Have you seen his latest addition to his cabinet?

Anti-white: Can't say that I agree.

"Anti-white statements" : That is him reading from his book, I believe. He is reading about his childhood, where he faced an extreme amount of racism. He is clearly being brutally honest in that book, and I respect that.

2nd Amendment: He very clearly has said he thinks it should be left to the states.

Obama gave Hillary the finger:
That again? Even IF he really was, I can give you video of Bush doing the same. Who cares? Have you never given the finger?

 


But what is your point? All of those are external factors never referencing what you think they all hint at. What are you saying Obama will do?

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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Honesty, I will remain skeptical of anyone in charge. If you know me in person, you will see that a little rebellion runs in me in all aspects of life. I question work Supervisors, Managers, etc. So of course I will question all the way up to the President, no matter who he/she is or what party he/she belongs to.

I will watch Obama closer than most, mainly because of the difficult times our country is headed into and the amount of trust that is given to Obama by so many people I know in person. I was not alive long enough for the love of the Kennedy's, but I remember Clinton being adored by many, however, not as many as I have seen for Obama.

With this adoration, I am afraid of people just following him along and he can run whatever kind of program he wishes. Why is he trusted so much? Well, I believe that there are powers that run the whole institution, from both sides of the political parties.

How did they give Obama so much power? I used to think of all the reasons we went through this Iraq war. Was it for the oil? Was it for the power of the American dollar? Well, neither one seemed to work, but now we are faced with something new, new evidence. It was such an unpopular war, yet we carried on with it. Why? Maybe to beat us up for eight years, divide us, and make us want something different so badly when the time is up. That something different is Obama.

Now with us wanting something so different, we may just follow along, screaming "Change!" as he changes us to something we should not become. Evidence to this is given by Biden's speech. I need not link this because we have all read it. And the evidence of following is shown through many videos of people praising him, and crying when he is near as if he is some sort of savior.

So it is not exactly Obama that I fear, but I fear the people. I fear our strength to question all authority.

edited for some grammar

[edit on 15-11-2008 by AHostileMe]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Irish M1ck
None of those are to the point.

Oh for the love of all things holy .... :shk:
They most certainly are to the point.

What are you hinting at?

You've GOT to be kidding.
You aren't listening and you aren't looking.

Your question has been directly answered over and over -
and as always WITHOUT 'hints', 'racism', or 'fear of the unknown'.

This is useless. OUT.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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i am afraid of a lot of things, however one trumps them all, its more of a hypothetical situation but something to think about. obama's whole platform was based on "hope and change" with everyone and their mother who listen to the MSM are believing it, blindly, without actually researching what he stands for, covering my butt here but that was not everyone literally but the majority. now that being said, he has the whole world up in arms and 65% of America firmly believing he is THE one man who is going to change America for the better, THE one chance at this, and here is my fear, if, god forbid, he gets assassinated and the whole country goes to #, he will be remembered for being the one chance we had to change our country and we blew it. he will be forever raised up on the shoulders of history for the amazing things he was going to do, when in all actuallity raising taxes, social welfare checks to people who barely pay any taxes at all, supporting bailouts, etc would have only sunk our economy more.
i believe all the change we're going to get will be something like a depression and that it's no longer an if, but a when, the only difference is who will be blamed and who will be raised up



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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I think you're ignoring people's points but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

You asked us to sum up our fears in a few sentences. I have a lot of fears but one main one.

The Obamma tax plan: Taxing the welloff more to support the not-as-welloff masses. This is socialist, and it is thievery. This election was decided by Jealousy. Many people in this country have participated in the system and have made financial futures for themselves and their families and he wants to take the money that they earned away from them and give it to those who have done nothing to earn it. Is is an anti-American ideal and goes against everything America stands for. I have no problem with not-for-profit organizations, or donations, etc., but FORCING people through government to give is thuggery and is shameful.

In America, anyone can succeed if they try. Obamma is a walking example of a well off minority who's family has only been here for one generation. He represents the American dream yet is attempting to destroy it at the same time.

You can't justify theft no matter how much a person has versus other people as long as they earned it.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by bkcrt]

[edit on 15-11-2008 by bkcrt]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by bkcrt
The Obamma tax plan: Taxing the welloff more to support the not-as-welloff masses.


bkcrt - Obama's plan is to raise taxes (3%, I think) on those who make over $250K. Do you disagree with that?

He's ALSO plans to lower taxes for people making less than $200K. Do you have a problem with that?

Which of these plans are bothering you, making you think Obama is Socialist?


This election was decided by Jealousy.


I don't even know what that means.



Many people in this country have participated in the system and have made financial futures for themselves and their families and he wants to take the money that they earned away from them and give it to those who have done nothing to earn it.


He's not giving the money to anyone. He's investing int in our country. ALL PEOPLE in the US will gain from this tax increase and tax break. If we're going to become energy independent and invest in solar and wind, etc, save the auto industry, and create jobs while doing all that, the money has to come from somewhere. These new taxes will be going toward the saving of the country's economy.



You can't justify theft no matter how much a person has versus other people as long as they earned it.


I hear you. I don't like taxes, either. But as it is, we're paying taxes now. We're paying for welfare and health care for the poor already. It's not like he's starting a new idea. This is already happening. He's just going to shuffle it around to be like it was in the 90s. The economy was great and there were lots of jobs.

Socialism is when the government owns the banks, the auto industries and the airlines, etc. Think about that in light of what's happening right now and tell me who's the Socialist...

Obama is a Capitalist and believes strongly in the Open Market. So do I. But consider where we are right now and tell me that we don't have to take some DRASTIC action to get our economy back on an even keel. We're in a hole and we have to get OUT before progressing. The more we dig, the deeper we get and something has to CHANGE. Keeping doing the same thing is getting us in more and more trouble as a nation. Pretty soon, we won't be able to fund our military. Then what kind of shape will we be in? Poor AND vulnerable.

I'm just sayin'...

Good answer to the question, though (I think
). A solid, real action you are "afraid" Obama will take.

FlyersFan, I'm sure you can see the difference between the above concrete answer and 99% of the reasons people give when they talk about "being afraid" of a President Obama. Like, "I'm afraid because of his "nefarious" connections and associations with questionable people."

So... what does that MEAN? Do you mean:
Obama had these associations, so I think he's a terrorist?
Obama had these connections so I think he's going to be murdering people?
Obama is associated with him, so I think he's Hitler? the Antichrist? What is the real result that you're afraid of?

Another one: "I'm afraid because the brown shirts are coming." Same question... Are you seriously afraid that Obama (with the support of Congress and the rest of the people in the United States) is going to start a "Hitler Youth" and ... what, become Hitler and try to wipe out a specific race like Hitler did? Is that what the Hitler comparisons are about? Do you really think that?



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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My concern is the "groupie" aspect. It's like the Beatles have come to town.
It was alright to scream and cry and faint over the Beatles. They were just musicians.
No matter what feelings you had about them - they wouldn't be in a position of real control.

While I am happy to see the world energized - (who wouldn't be after the last 8 years)
there remains something unsettling about it all. We give away our power so easily. We are desperate for someone to take care of us. This is a potentially dangerous mindset.

I am not saying that this president will do bad things. I have no reason to believe he will be better or worse than anyone who has ever been in office. We don't know who he is - or what he will do - or how it will effect us. We are just hopeful.

I am however strongly suggesting that we keep our critical thinking caps on - and remember that we are ultimately in charge of ourselves.

Someone who evokes this kind of reaction can cause great change in any direction.




[edit on 15-11-2008 by spinkyboo]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by spinkyboo
My concern is the "groupie" aspect. It's like the Beatles have come to town.
It was alright to scream and cry and faint over the Beatles. They were just musicians.


I could say the same for the Palin "groupies" or the Hillary "groupies". As for mccain.... well he has none


The point is that this "messiah" BS is yet another hypocritical claim from the right, it goes both ways. Not to mention, after 8years of republican BS over this nation, who could blame them? Really?


No matter what feelings you had about them - they wouldn't be in a position of real control.


Yes, so every individual who becomes president, their automaticall corrupt, or this NWO thingy folks got going on here Yet when it comes to "Ron Paul" or that other guy from minnesota, shining stars! everything they say is right!


While I am happy to see the world energized - (who wouldn't be after the last 8 years)
there remains something unsettling about it all. We give away our power so easily. We are desperate for someone to take care of us. This is a potentially dangerous mindset.


True, that is fact, but then again you gotta realize the pool of candidates from the start of this campaign. Hillary,Ron Paul,Romney etc we had a pritty good collection of candidates and one by one they got voted out, its a matter of sorting till the american people are satisfied. Whether you feel negatively about Obama or not, he was chosen out of a dozen others. Id say thats a good deal.

I understand that theres this negativity towards the democratic system here, after 8years who could blame ya. That being said if we are going to automatically label every president elect before he takes office as this and that because all the others are bad, it doesnt make for good. Why live in the world where every thing is assumed as having no hope.


I am however strongly suggesting that we keep our critical thinking caps on - and remember that we are ultimately in charge of ourselves.


Yes thats true, yet if you call "anti-christ" or speculation "critical thinking", if you call not giving the man a chance "critical thinking" then this aint a whole lot of denying ignorance. Talk about the policies or talk about the things he does when he is actually president, not something you assume will happen because your bitter and blinded by partisanship as a result of the elections.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by southern_Guardian
The point is that this "messiah" BS is yet another hypocritical claim from the right, it goes both ways.


I never said anything about a "Messiah".




Yes, so every individual who becomes president, their automaticall corrupt, or this NWO thingy folks got going on here.


I never said he was corrupt.





True, that is fact, but then again you gotta realize the pool of candidates from the start of this campaign. Hillary,Ron Paul,Romney etc we had a pretty good collection of candidates


I don't personally think the "collection" was very good.



I understand that theres this negativity towards the democratic system here, after 8years who could blame ya. That being said if we are going to automatically label every president elect before he takes office as this and that because all the others are bad, it doesnt make for good. Why live in the world where every thing is assumed as having no hope.


I believe the present system is outdated and not serving us as individuals. That is a personal belief. I did not label anyone. I believe that I mentioned that we are hopeful in my post.



Yes thats true, yet if you call "anti-christ" or speculation "critical thinking",


I am not calling him the anti-christ - I am referring to critical thinking as a biological attribute.


if you call not giving the man a chance "critical thinking" then this aint a whole lot of denying ignorance. Talk about the policies or talk about the things he does when he is actually president, not something you assume will happen because your bitter and blinded by partisanship as a result of the elections.


I agree. I have not made any judgments -
I have no bitterness and I am not blind - I have made no assumptions -
I don't know the fellow.
I have no idea what he will bring to the table - just as you don't.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by spinkyboo]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I guess you aren't getting it. I'm saying forget all that. Assume it all true, and you are right about 100% of it, I don't give a damn.

What do you really think Obama is going to do that is going to affect your life so badly that you have made it a mission to come online and slander his name?



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by bkcrt
The Obamma tax plan: Taxing the welloff more to support the not-as-welloff masses.


bkcrt - Obama's plan is to raise taxes (3%, I think) on those who make over $250K. Do you disagree with that?

He's ALSO plans to lower taxes for people making less than $200K. Do you have a problem with that?

Which of these plans are bothering you, making you think Obama is Socialist?



Yes, raising taxes 3% on those who make over 200K DOES bother me. It does nothing. The people who make that kind of money are the business owners and if they are taxed more they won't just eat the loss. They will fire employees to make up the difference. It destroys jobs and lowers wages.

And "spreading the wealth" as he puts it, is socialism.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


Obama does not scare me. Right now, even though I didn't vote for him, he doesn't scare me. Am I worried about some of the things he has talked about implementing? Yes, but not enough to be afraid of the man.

He is my President-elect and I support him and his office.

My biggest problem is that I have some issues trusting what the man says and what it behind some of what he says. The feeling is amorphous, not obvious, but it is a feeling I have.

But, like I said, he is my President-elect and I will support him and his office. My "trust" issues are with Obama the MAN.





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