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Let's be honest here

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posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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The number one reason I do not support Obama is that he is not for abolishing the Federal Reserve. The single most illegal and corrupt institution this country has ever seen. I will not support any one for president unless getting rid of the Fed is on their agenda. I don't understand why people don't voice their anger over this.... This is a private company with NO elected officials that prints OUR money and then tacks on INTEREST that we will never pay off. This is the biggest rape of our constitution that ever existed.




posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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I don't fear anything. Looking at it realistically, Obama and Congress are going to do what ever they want to. There isn't anything anybody can do to stop them. Campaign promises are long gone. He has already been elected. You will see stuff passed that are in line with his promises but not totally what he promised. The only thing I got with this guy is his ability to make people believe the unbelievable. People look at him like a cure all and there is no way he or any other President can cure everything we got going on at this time. I don't want him feeding a line of bull about how he can fix all of this when Obama himself knows it not to be true. Obama is a pro at playing with his words. He can sell you water and make you believe it's liquor. I am always cautious about people like this.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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It was stated in the first reply and several times since then. People are afraid of the unknown. Afraid of "monsters in the dark". What if this? What if that? Here comes the boogie man! There is NO REASON to believe that he's going to do ANY of the things people are afraid of. It's all in their minds.

The thing is, no matter WHO we elect as president, we'd have to wait and see how they did before we judged their presidency. But people have Obama already tried and convicted of doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do.

In reality, they have no possible way of knowing what he'll do and absolutely no reason to believe he's going to do any of these things. We NEVER do. We can never be certain of anything in the future. But some people here on ATS have convinced themselves that Obama is some sort of Satan who is going to ruin our lives.

I wonder.... if a president doesn't have the power to "fix" our lives, how does he have the power to "ruin" them? I don't think he can fix everything, either. He's not supernatural. But neither can he ruin everything. Why is it so easy for the fearful among us to SPAM the board with threads filled with fear about how Obama will surely ruin our country when they deny that he can do any good at all? There's lots of good to be done.

Why do so many assume the worst? Why do they turn to fear and hatred like old friends?

Is it too scary to let yourself hope?



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There is NO REASON to believe that he's going to do ANY of the things people are afraid of.


There is NO REASON to believe that he's not.

Thus some peoples fear.

It isn't fear of the unknown BH. Most people know exactly why they are afraid of Obama, and it isn't because they are uninformed like you seem to think.

People are afraid that he will actually do what he said he would.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


Wouldn't you classify this as stemming from watching too much Fox News or listening to too much talk radio? And in all fairness, watching too much CNN does the same thing to liberals about Bush.

But, again, no one was accusing Bush of these types of things in November of 2000. This is a whole new level of low in politics. It's getting dirty.



[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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The Daily Show on Obama v Hitler. It's hilarious - I particularly like the "Bizarro-Hitler".

Daily Show on Obama and Hitler

Bill O'Reilly on the Daily Show

Bill O'Reilly on the Daily Show Part 1

Bill O'Reilly on the Daily Show Part 2

 

The Bill O'Reilly part is awesome.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


I'm not talking about the loonies who are saying stupid things about Obama (birth certificate, religion, etc.).

I'm talking about those with legitimate fears of his policies (nationalized health care, higher taxes etc.)

How is it dirty or low to have real fears about policies that you think are wrong for the country?



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


No, okay. That's fine. I am not talking to those people, however I do think they take it to a new level also.

But those are big changes, and I can see how some would be nervous about what could happen.


I often forget that you are a level-headed individual.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Irish M1ck
I often forget that you are a level-headed individual.




That's alright.

Those who call themselves Conservatives like I do have kind of given us all a bad name.

I definitely seem to be the exception. (not to toot my own horn)



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


I mean, yeah, I have to be honest, I am nervous about a change to socialized health care. What if something I advocated so hard for ended up failing?

I want it, but I am not 100% sure it is the best thing. I agree with the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But I think the current system is broken, so it needs to be fixed.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Irish M1ck
 


I understand that, and I share that fear.

Although I would say too that I think it is wrong for this country. I think our current system does need a massive overhaul to improve it, but I don't think socializing it will help at all.

I think it will make it much, much worse.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


You should watch the Bill O'Reilly/Jon Stewart video I posted up there.

That's me versus you, buddy!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
Most people know exactly why they are afraid of Obama, and it isn't because they are uninformed like you seem to think.

People are afraid that he will actually do what he said he would.


He's never said he would take away your right to bear arms, your right to privacy, he never said he'd tax middle America, or misrepresent the Constitution. He never said he'd diminish the dignity of the US, microchip people and he's against gay marriage.

I can understand being "afraid" that he'll tax people making over $250K because he said he would. But all this other crap is being manufactured.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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My biggest fear with Obama becoming President:

The fervent anti-Obama crowd on ATS will spend 90% of their time on ATS for the next 4-8 years posting the same lines over and over and over again...



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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They don’t like the loss the republicans suffered, for obvious reasons, and in fairness they recognize that Bush did their party great damage and meanwhile most of em had been parading the man in 2000 and 2004, so now its a matter of distancing their prior "solid" support for bush by calling him a former liberal and calling up Americas end under Obama and hoping that he will mess up so that their party confidence can be restored again. Its partisanship and I don’t think you have to look too far beyond that.

On another note most of it could be years of inner fear of the minority or the man with the Arabic name or just liberal in general, these which could be sourced from the media and from parents as youngens. Most will claim they don’t think in that manner but it has been for years drilled into the minds and there is this sub-consciousness that brings out this fear, even when there’s no intention of it. In a way we all have our inner prejudice that we don’t really intend to bring out (mostly) but its there.

So yes most of it is blind partisanship or political allegiance and the rest is in part years of inner beliefs.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by roknhrdcor
We fear that he will start taking away our rights, mostly. i.e.:

1) Our right to bear arms against oppression and tyranny.


Obama has stated out right that he believes gun laws should be left to the states. He may, however, reinstitute the previous assault rifle ban, which I personally, have no problem with.

I don't think anyone needs an M-16 for private use anymore than they need a hand grenade or rocket launcher.

On The Issues

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.



Originally posted by roknhrdcor
2) Our right to privacy, by not repealing the Patriot Acts, or reinstating the Posse Comtatus Act.


He has already stated that he will do best to reverse the damage done to the Constitution by the Bush Administration. I don't know what he will be able to do or what he will focus on, but I am hoping the Patriot Act will be a main goal.

Huffington Post

"I would call my attorney general in and review every single executive order issued by George Bush and overturn those laws or executive decisions that I feel violate the constitution."


Now, I don't believe he can use his executive powers to override the Patriot Act, nor do I believe he should use them to overturn a Congressional Bill. But, at least he is taking steps in the right direction.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
3) Instilling greater taxes.


I believe he has been very clear on this. I agree, I hope he follows his word and doesn't institute new taxes, but I do hope he holds his word to his tax policy.

4) Not prosecuting the Republican establishment for warcrimes or treason.

You are afraid he will or won't? If you want him to, then you may be in luck.

Huffington Post

...whether an Obama administration would seek to prosecute officials of a former Bush administration on the revelations that they greenlighted torture, or for other potential crimes that took place in the White House.

Obama said that as president he would indeed ask his new Attorney General and his deputies to "immediately review the information that's already there" and determine if an inquiry is warranted -- but he also tread carefully on the issue, in line with his reputation for seeking to bridge the partisan divide. He worried that such a probe could be spun as "a partisan witch hunt." However, he said that equation changes if there was willful criminality, because "nobody is above the law."




Originally posted by roknhrdcor
5) Further MISinterpreting our Constitution.


I can't help you there. We'll just have to wait and see.



Originally posted by roknhrdcor
6) NOT disbanding the unconstitutional I.R.S. or FedRes, and NOT enforcing executive order 11110


I doubt he'll do that, nor anyone in the near future. Not sure it would even be possible, nor worth it.

If they disband that, then they'll just need to raise excise taxes.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
7) Being generally manipulated by the financiers of governments (Central World Banks, who are murderous treasonous luciferian criminals)


Again... uh, not sure about that.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
8) Allowing gay-marriages (outrageously immoral and illogical), denying the rights of the unborn, and expanding public education regulation.


Uhh, well, lots of people are Pro-Choice, and I suppose he'll probably just stick with them. I don't know that the abortion laws are changing any time soon. If anything, possibly they could/should shorten the amount of time that someone can wait until they get an abortion.

Also, I believe he is against gay marriage, however, I think he is okay with civil unions, and I don't see why anyone wouldn't be. It doesn't involve the church and it allows them the same rights as everyone else and as guaranteed under the Constitution.

Public education? Something needs to be fixed there. New regulation does not need to be added, but more funded to deprived areas.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
9) Diminishing the sovereignty and dignity of the States.


Don't see how or why he would do that. I don't know that he can make us any less dignified than we currently are. Hopefully he can restore some dignity to this great country.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
10) Allowing military secrets to continue, allowing microchipping to continue, allowing U.N. troops on U.S. soil, and allowing FEMA concentration camps (NWO/Fascist/Anti-Liberty)


Can't comment on microchipping and what not. I don't know much about that stuff and I am not sure I believe so much in the NWO. In fact, I worry more about these terrorist black lists they currently have that sort of remind me of the McCarthy era blacklists.


Originally posted by roknhrdcor
In a nutshell, these are my main concerns about the guy. He's spineless, shameless, and corrupted by the same money that corrupted Bush. He is Clinton all over again. He is no Jack Kennedy.


I loved Clinton.


And for a spineless man, he sure has come a long way and done great things.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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He has already stated that he will do best to reverse the damage done to the Constitution by the Bush Administration.


You mean government telling telcoms to spy on its own people didn't violate the Constitution? And Congress passing FISA did no damage to our Constitution?

IMO, Obama contributed to the damage done to our Constitution by voting for FISA. Government officials who authorized the spying and the people who gave the government the information should have been prosecuted. Laws were broken.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


I can't comment on that. I disagree with Obama on that one.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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I think that Obama's position on the owning of weapons is wrong. He states that he believes states or cities, etc., don't remember the exact quote, can restrict the owning of guns. However, since the Constitution specifically says the right of individuals to own guns shall not be infringed, that is a federal requirement, not a state or community decision. That decision is not left up to the state. It's a constitutional mandate that citizens be allowed to own guns. That's where I wonder how he believes about other rights under the constitution. And he is an"expert" in constitutional law. And, I fear he will bring us into war further, this time leaving Iraq, to put more troops into Afghanistan. Supposedly a good thing. But his comments last spring about invading Pakistan worry me. Pakistan has 10 times the population of Iraq, and you see how well we are doing there, but he is holding the option open while telling us he will cut the military budget. Yeah, that scares me. Maybe not scare. I don't scare easily, like my sister was scared damned near to death of Bush being elected president. I would say it causes me some concern.

Oh, and an added note. The second amendment was not written so that people could go squirrel hunting or target practicing. It was written to ensure that the people of that time were allowed to own guns, the same kind of guns that the military of that day used. So, yes, I think citizens should be allowed to own automatic weapons, rocket launchers, etc. After all, the second amendment was written so that the American people would be equipped to overthrow an infringing goverment, just like the British government of that day.


[edit on 15-11-2008 by kyred]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by kyred
 


Some feel that there is a different context it can be interpreted in:

Militias have the right.

I don't know, I stay out of it. I just know I don't think all citizens should be allowed to have an M16, grenade launcher, or any other WMD.





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