Ex-Hitler youth's warning to America

reply to post by ZindoDoone


That's not congruent with Hitler then.

In fact, Obama presents none of the major warning signs Hitler did.

Mick take off your blinders. I know your realy hoping Obama isn't what we here think he is but I fear you might be misguided as much as you feel we are. The problem is that what his record is and his writings and opinion and record before this run for POTUS show that he is exactly the type to renew the real facist agenda we saw in the 30's and 40's! Sorry if you disagree but, only time will tell and his statements and his actions right up to now only reinforce our thinking!
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


PROVE YOU POINTS. SOURCE, CITE FACTS, SAY STUFF WITH SUBSTANCE ALREADY!

God. It's like arguing with a wall. You can't just go around saying stuff without proving it.

This isn't high school.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


What major warning signs would those be? And how does Obama not show any of them.

With sources if you don't mind. Turnabout being fair play and all that. And I'm only partially yanking your chain here.

Here is an interesting video of Obama and his plans to disarm America, IN HIS OWN WORDS:
macsmind.com...

Notice how he will negotiate with Russia to take nuclear missiles off the trigger, and I'm sure we can TRUST the Russians to do that, right?
This video tells all the terrorist groups and terrorist-supporting nations that we will be an easy mark under Obama.

reply to post by Jenna


Here's an example - 14 points of Fascism.

14 Points of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

While Obama uses the slogan "Yes we can" and "Change", those are not nationalistic in nature. Advocating nationalism in slogans is a huge sign.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Haven't seen anything like this from Obama.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

I suppose you could say he did that to republicans, but then all democrats and republicans would be fascist.

4. Supremacy of the Military

...Don't think I need to mention this.

5. Rampant Sexism

One thing Obama hasn't been accused of for sure.

6. Controlled Mass Media

Now this says controlled, not biased. So, no, as of yet, Obama doesn't seem to want to control the media.

7. Obsession with National Security

Certainly not.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

...I don't even need to comment on most of these.

9. Corporate Power is Protected

And everyone says he's a socialist.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

Cutting taxes for the middle and lower class everyone?

I have not heard of him being against labor unions either.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Haven't heard anything about that.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Another I haven't heard of him resembling.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

You might be able to get something on him here, but that's most politicians. Dirty bastards.

14. Fraudulent Elections

Here's another hot topic, but I haven't heard much on this front against Obama either. Seems most people don't think election fraud occurred this year. Must be a liberal thing.


So anyway, this is just one example of the warning signs of fascism. Now Obama hasn't taken office yet, so it's impossible to claim much, but he hasn't shown any warning signs in the past like other dictators.

Hitler's Early Warning Signs

· Early in 1935, Hitler decided to pull Germany out of the League of Nations

· Since the league was created for countries to negotiate their problems it appeared that Hitler had no time for peaceful talks

· In 1936, Hitler ordered his new army to take over the Rhineland – former German territory near the border with France. France permitted it as a show if trust

· They appeased Hitler, allowed him to violate the Treaty of Versailles in an attempt to prevent war

· In 1936-1937 Hitler signed a treaty with Italy and Japan called the Rome, Berlin, Tokyo Treaty, this treaty was about trade

· In 1939 Hitler takes over Austria without a fight. The League of Nations does nothing but appease him again to avoid war

· In 1938 – 1939 the country if Czechoslovakia is taken over without fight – League of Nations does nothing

· In 1939 Hitler signs a non-aggression treaty with Joseph Stalin, leader of Russia. Both men agree never to fight each other if a war breaks out in Europe. Much of this agreement was kept secret from the people pf Europe.

· Hitler has not lost one soldier in all of his early conquests

· Britain, France and other European countries are allowing Hitler to be aggressive in hopes that he will soon stop. To avoid war with Germany they will trust Hitler will not conquer any further – The Munich Agreement – 1939



· By this point, Japan has taken over ½ of China - the League of Nations permitted this 1931-1937

· By now Italy has taken over Albania and Ethiopia in Africa - no one has tried to stop any of these aggressions

Of course, I think Mein Kampf was the biggest warning sign.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Wow. How could you be against stopping nuclear proliferation, disarming of, and decreasing the readiness of each country to fire one?

Jesus. Even McCain was for that. I don't know of anyone in their right mind that would be against that.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Obviosly, you have NOT read his record or any of the speeches he has made in the last ten years in Illinois or the bills he has signed on to or the two he has rendered. I actualy have researched him in detail. I have never taken any potential candidate for any party at face value in 40 years. I am whats known as an informed voter. I am also a conservative/libertarian so I have not hasd a real horse in the race ever. All candidates I have considered have been periferal in nature. I am not a party hack. But, Got Damn man, you sure seem to be. Your grasp of historical fact and how those views that intersect with the present POTUS escapes me. To most here they stick out like a sore thumb.

Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Thanks for responding to me with a post full of no proof, sources, or facts.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


I should do your research for you??? I think not. I know what I read and if your not willing to believe me I care not. Your postings are opinion only. No proof has been shown in your posts either. It boils down to who here thinks what you and I post is right. So far. its Me many, and you very few!!!LOL

Zindo

reply to post by neformore

And again he didn't persecute jews until he was in power. Yes i agree he had a deep seated hatred of Jews he blamed them for everything that was wrong with Germany, But again he didn't persecute them until he was in power. so my statement is very much true.

To go back to the OP, I have to say that I disagree with the analysis. Hitler very carefully manipulated himself into power using all the tools at his disposal - oratory, psychological and violence.

And all but the violence part of that statement could be said about Obama or any past president that ran for office and didn't succeed into office by the death of the president. Lets face it every politician uses manipulation, the majority of politicians are at least good speakers.

People often think of Hitler as some psychotic mad-man - and that may have been the case by the end of the war as he gradually came to terms with the fact that there was no way Germany - as he saw it - could win.

Actually i think Hitler was a very smart man and very calculating. But i agree that he didn't become the madman until he quit listening to his generals, By dividing his military and fighting against the west and Russia. I believe that if he wouldn't have done that there is a very good possibility that Germany could have won WW2. and by time of the end of the war his mind was completely gone either from disease or the pressure of defeat or both.

Comparing the US - or even circumstances in the US, to Nazi Germany is not possible. The living conditions and racial awareness are hugely different these days to what they were in the early 1900's. People are more aware, communication is better, and the media is changing and undergoing a gradual devolution instead of being centralised propaganda.

And anyone that believes you cannot compare now to them to see the warning signs is delusional! the only thing different between then and now is the population of the world. and the internet.

Back then most people got their news from newspapers and the majority of the newspapers had 2 additions, one in the morning and one in the evening. Plus everyone had a radio. plus people actually stopped and talked to each other on the street. Communication was as good then given the tech as it is now.

Theres a whole lot of right-wing scaremongering going on at the moment, and its sad to see it. Personally I believe that this is just another example.

Anyone that isn't biased one way or the other can see there is scaremongering by both sides. And this guy in the OP lived through one of the worse times in our recent era, whats the harm in listening to him and giving him a fair listen since he is warning of similarities he sees?

reply to post by ZindoDoone




That's epic. You make a claim, you do your own research and support. I am not doing your job for you. You have it backwards, pal.

Perhaps you should try researching what is an argument, and how one is formed before you post on about politics.

What is an argument?

In fact, making an argument—expressing a point of view on a subject and supporting it with evidence—is often the aim of academic writing.

You got half of it down, bud, I'll give you that. You definitely express an opinion.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by ZindoDoone

I noticed in one of your posts that Mein Kampf came up. I believe that Obama's Mein Kampf, namely "Dreams from my Father", was written by Bill Ayers, the terrorists we know all too well:

www.americanthinker.com...

October 17, 2008

Evidence Mounts: Ayers Co-Wrote Obama's Dreams

Evidence continues to mount that Barack Obama had substantial help from Bill Ayers in the creation of his 1995 book, Dreams From My Father, a book that Time Magazine has called "the best-written memoir ever produced by an American politician." The evidence falls into five general categories, here summarized.

* The discovery of new matching nautical metaphors from both Ayers and Obama that almost assuredly came from the same source: Ayers, a former merchant seaman.

* The discovery of a Bill Ayers' essay on memoir writing, whose postmodern themes and phrases are echoed throughout Dreams.

* A newly discovered book chapter from 1990 that shows clearly and painfully the limits of Obama's prose style the year he received a contract to write Dreams.

* The revelation by radical Islamicist Rashid Khalidi that Ayers made his "dining room table" available for neighborhood writers who needed help.

* A refined timeline that shows Ayers had the means, the motive and the time to help Obama when he needed it most.


The timeline

A 1990 New York Times profile on Obama's election as the Harvard Law Review's first black president in 1990 caught the eye of agent Jane Dystel. She persuaded Poseidon, a small imprint of Simon & Schuster, to authorize a roughly $125,000 advance for Obama's proposed memoir.

Obama repaired to Chicago with advance in hand and dithered. At one point, in order to finish the book without interruption, he and wife Michelle decamped to Bali. Obama was supposed to have finished the book within a year. Bali or not, advance or no, he could not. Simon & Schuster canceled the contract. His agent hustled him a new, smaller contract.

Ayers published his book To Teach in 1993. Between 1993 and 1996, he had no other formal authorial assignment than to co-edit a collection of essays. This was an unusual hole in his very busy publishing career.

Obama's memoir was published in June 1995. Earlier that year, Ayers helped Obama, then a junior lawyer at a minor law firm, get appointed chairman of the multi-million dollar Chicago Annenberg Challenge grant. In the fall of that same year, 1995, Ayers and his wife, Weatherwoman Bernardine Dohrn, helped blaze Obama's path to political power with a fundraiser in their Chicago home.

In short, Ayers had the means, the motive, the time, the place and the literary ability to jumpstart Obama's career. And, as Ayers had to know, a lovely memoir under Obama's belt made for a much better resume than an unfulfilled contract over his head.

I would recommend reading the entire article. It chronicles Obama and Ayers during the time before,during and after the book was written, and goes into great detail about the lack of writing capabilities of Obama. The article makes a compelling argument that, Ayers, indeed was the ghost writer for Obama's book.

He may be our Hitler, who knows. He is very smart, he could have learned from Hitlers mistakes. Doesn't really matter now does hit? He is our next president for better or for worse. Hopefully its for the better. Either way it doesnt matter. He is it for atleast the next 4 years. I didn't vote for him, but how about we give him a chance before we start accusing him of ruining the country and turning it into a dictatorship, a socialist country, a marxist, country or a facist country.

Then again I am on a conspiracy site where everyone is looking for something.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


He also had one hell of a drug addiction. Albert Speer has written that his Dr. was continualy injecting him with stimulants and anti-depressants as well as pain medication in the last three years of the war do to the injuries he suffered in the three assasination attempts he lived through! Anyone who has indulged in drugs of any kind can tell you that your thought process isn't up to snuff when under the influence of high doses of any drugs!

Zindo

reply to post by Mercenary2007


Good post overall. I do, however, disagree about the mad man part. I believe, personally, he became a mad man while in prison, when he wrote Mein Kampf.

He was engulfed in a conspiracy that Jews controlled everything, etc. If Hitler were alive today, he'd post on a site like this.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Well, thanks for that, I forgot about his so called novels! Yup, that surely rates as his agenda and 'Mein Kampf' in my book. I'm sure that Lord Mick will disagree. But then again, he is Obamas surrogate here!!

Zindo

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


That's rhetoric. I can't comment on whether Ayers helped or not, possibly he did, but unless there is something in the book about hating large groups of people, I am not sure where the similarities begin.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Good thing for you there are people on this board who actually do research and form valid opinions.

Must be nice to have someone support your claim for you.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Irish M1ck


It just might be that they too do the same research I do and find the same sources. Mick, I will NEVER kowtow to your wishes to prove anything to you. I state what I believe and anyone who reads it can take it or leave it!
I do not have the inclination to bother with a person with my PROOFS thats shows the proclivities that you do in your posts. We disagree and I can see no movement in most of what you post. I too am a hard Headed Mick with Family From Belfast and thats just the way it is Brother!!LOL

Zindo

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Thank you though I meant things specific to Hitler that can be seen now as warning signs, not warning signs to fascism. Should have been more specific. And just out of curiosity, did you by chance use Google when you picked that second link? Just asking as it's the first one that shows up if you search for 'Hitler, early warning signs'.

Now I would like to direct your attention to this page. While the rest of the website is a bit... different, I think is the word I'm looking for. This particular page actually has a pretty detailed list of comparisons between the two and provides links at the bottom for where they got their information. Interestingly enough it mentions "Dreams of My Father", which I'm sure you know was Obama's first book, and mentions that it is a book of Obama's early life, political views, etc. Just like Hitler's "Mein Kampf".

Note: I do not think Obama is the next Hitler, but there are enough similarities between their early political careers to make it worth discussion in my eyes.

Note 2: Take note of the words "similarities" and "early political careers" in the above note. By specifying early political careers I am not in any way saying that Obama is guilty of mass genocide nor am I saying that he will be guilty of it in the future, I am actually speaking of the Hitler that got elected not the Hitler that went nuts and caused the deaths of thousands upon thousands upon thousands of innocent people.

Note 3: All my words in this post are to be taken at face value, no hidden meaning exists in anything I have written above. Any who choose to try to put meaning to the words that is not there will not be responded to as I am tired of having to spend 10 posts explaining to people that their twisted version of my words was neither what I said nor what I meant.