Nothing in chemtrails... yeahhh riiiiight...Photos

reply to post by Meteorologist


Posting Meteorological educational materials doesn't make you and more credible sorry.Instead post how your education in meteorology has helped you figure out that chem trail don't contain any dangerous chemicals like barium...Perhaps this will help

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
reply to post by Meteorologist

 

So what you are saying is that factories all over the country are pumping how dangerous levels of Barium!now that's a HUGE conspiracy!

[edit on 14-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

A couple of things to note about Barium, since you seem so hooked on that chemical being the reason for Chemtrails.

Firstly barium oxidises in water and in air, producing hydrogen gas.
So you're telling us that these chemtrails full of barium hang in the air for hours despite the fact that it oxidises immediately into an invisible gas?

Because barium quickly becomes oxidized in air, it is difficult to obtain this metal in its pure form. It is primarily found in and extracted from the mineral barite which is crystallized barium sulfate. Because barite is so insoluble, it cannot be used directly for the preparation of other barium compounds. Instead, the ore is heated with carbon to reduce it to barium sulfide

en.wikipedia.org...

Secondly barium is used in the manufacture of many things, including household products like paper, soap, textiles and glass.

With all that manufacturing comes waste. From the article I found it states in 2002 there was 222 million pounds (~100 million kg) dumped in America alone.

Article

I think you will find the cause of higher levels in areas is due to illegal/poorly managed dumping. NOT chemtrails.



And exactly HOW dangerous is barium?

Link to MSDS

So unless you are exposed to it at a high level, it's about as dangerous as dozens of other chemicals that surround us.












[edit on 14-11-2008 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by Zepherian


I agree with you on all accounts, and just for the simple fact that the Government and Media do not talk about Chemtrails or the fact that they completely deny they even exists is enough proof for me that these things are a black project and that it is not good stuff that they are dusting us with.

reply to post by thefreepatriot


No, I'm giving you a plausible reason why there is barium in your back yard.

The burden of proof is 100% squarely on your shoulders. You are claiming that a common pollutant is showing up only after chemtrails are visible in the sky, yet you can't show us any evidence of that. You claim it, but you can't demonstrate it as happening. You are being sloppy. Get your argument together, as this is just ridiculous. You claim all these things, but can't show how they happen. All you have is guesswork and gut feelings, but no actual evidence.

reply to post by Zepherian


Try being objective. You have no evidence, yet you claim this stuff is real. What do you expect us to do? Respond with a cheery "oh you say it's true? It must be then! Here's $100 for research. Oh wait! We don't need to perform research, as we are just going to assume this is the truth because it fits in with our paranoid view of the world, and our complete lack of knowledge of the atmosphere.

Brilliant. Don't you remember science classes from school? How you'd create a hypothesis, then an experiment, then examine your data? There's a reason we were taught it - it's called the scientific method, and it's how we learn. You seem to be so arrogant that you think whatever you think is happening actually is, and anyone who even dares to ask for evidence is somehow a chemically-affected idiot.

Get a grip. Seriously. You are making ATS look bad.

reply to post by Chadwickus


you actually have more proven our point that chemtrails do exist thank you! I didn't know barium oxidizes so quickly!! so why is it being found dropping from "contrails" this would also explain away the other debunker theories that it came from oil processing plants, rubber manufacturing etc..As by the time they move over miles with the wind and drops down .. it would have oxidized! Thanks! By the way if you saw the news report. and the interview with the poison specialist he said one thing that barium does is lower the immune system overtime..ummmm

reply to post by arizonascott


Did you even bother to read your post? Don't you see how logically laughable it is?

By your logic the US government is genetically cloning the Santa Claus they captured in Alaska 200 years ago into thousands of genetic SuperSanta soldiers. It must be true because the government isn't talking about it.

You don't even know these chemtrails exist, but you assume they do without any evidence. You don't know they are not contrails, but because of some pre-existing paranoia about the government (coupled with ignorance of how the atmosphere works), you assume they are something dark.

Terrible.

reply to post by thefreepatriot


This is pathetic. That is not logic. I can fully see how you think chemtrails exist if that is how you work out what is real and what isn't. You are latching on to evidence you think supports your claim (when it doesn't), and ignoring evidence that suggests chemtrails don't exist.

Logically bankrupt. If that's the best you can do, I pity you and fellow chemtrail believers, as it's a joke. A massive joke. You have no evidence and scream for others to produce evidence. It's your claim, so you pony up the evidence. "Put up or shut up", as they say.

Originally posted by arizonascott


Thanks for the sky lessons Meteorologist, but there have been quite a few scientists and investigators that take this very seriously.

I would like to see their credentials, and even if they have a degree it doesn't mean they aren't a quack. Generally speaking, I am friends both offline and online with teens of other meteorologists and none of us at all believe in chemtrails. Might there be a meteorologist out there with credentials who says chemtrails exist? Yes, that doesn't mean he's right and certainly most people with credentials don't believe it.

Originally posted by arizonascott

And the samples that were taken were taken on both non-spray days and days with heavy "chemtrails". The results in the amount of barium and metals were drastically different from days with spraying and days with little or no spraying.

What you have there is "correlation, not causation" (a quote by one of my Psychology professors from college ).


There could very well be a connection between days with a lot of contrails in the sky (and thus a cloudy day) and more chemicals (barium in your case) on the ground, but that doesn't mean it's because barium is getting sprayed from jets.

The connection could be that because jets create contrails (which are clouds) and the sky gets overcast, weather patterns change, and instead of having converging winds, you have diverging winds, (high pressure vs. low pressure on the barometer) which causes air to sink, and hence the barium and other chemicals already in the air sink to the ground.

reply to post by dave420


that's funny ... if you have seen the news report the government has BEFORE dumped bacterium in the air.. and has conducted numerous experiments on unsuspecting populace BEFORE.. keep believing in your government.. heck its only your family at stake.. who cares right?

reply to post by dave420


I said I'd shut up on this one but it's getting way silly and some slang matches beginning to develop which I can't sit by and watch.

Dave420 is correct, Barium is in fact found in most fuels - including aviation fuel. It's used as a (neutral) surfactant.
Don't forget in a contrail there is also exhaust fumes - these will contain minute amounts of Barium and as a surfactant this will account why it will sometimes split a cloud in half just as another surfactant (washing up liquid) will disperse grease when added to it.

As for the German government admitting to spraying - that was released on a blog for crying out loud! Visit the same blog now - I urge you. One of the main articles:

How to Focus on a Dust Particle on Your Eyeball, and What it Means: Finding Eye-Floaters

Ahhh, intelligent reading at its best.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by vonspurter]

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

This is pathetic. That is not logic. I can fully see how you think chemtrails exist if that is how you work out what is real and what isn't. You are latching on to evidence you think supports your claim (when it doesn't), and ignoring evidence that suggests chemtrails don't exist.

Logically bankrupt. If that's the best you can do, I pity you and fellow chemtrail believers, as it's a joke. A massive joke. You have no evidence and scream for others to produce evidence. It's your claim, so you pony up the evidence. "Put up or shut up", as they say.

Thats funny I don't see that you have put up anything.? what have you put up besides attacks? there is evidence that Barium is falling from chem trails... What do you have that disproves this theory besides attacking me?

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
reply to post by Meteorologist

 

Posting Meteorological educational materials doesn't make you and more credible sorry.Instead post how your education in meteorology has helped you figure out that chem trail don't contain any dangerous chemicals like barium...Perhaps this will help

I wasn't posting the reading materials to make my credentials sound, I was posting them because I honestly want you to go out and educate yourself on this topic before arguing like you know what you're talking about.

Again, read the book and you will see how silly this whole chemtrail nonsense is. But you probably won't do that, just as you were too lazy to pay attention in the science classes in high school, you probably are too lazy to read a book. (Again, not an insult, just an observation.)

reply to post by dave420


You make a very good point and it is one where a while ago I offered an absolute answer for proof and getting the answer once and for all.

It seems so simple:

All we need to do is have an independent research company have a plane standing by in an area that has daily chemtrails and when one of these fresh "chemtrails" are produced, the research plane takes off.

This plane will have a containment system/collector and will fly at a safe distance from trail emitting aircraft and directly into the trail itself for 5 minutes land and take the sealed containment unit into a lab for analysis.

If the research plane is denied access to fly behind the "chemtrail" plane because it is a Government plane or Government contractor plane that in itself will answer a few questions.

If it is allowed to fly into the contrail and collect a sample we will have hard evidense for either side and this issue will be solved once and for all.

All the people who study chemtrails and have an issue with it should stop wasting their time and money and fund this little project. I am sure a campus student at U of A or Arizona State would be honored to be part of this and construct the proper vapor collection containment device.

Why does it always have to be so hard, when it can be so simple.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by arizonascott]

reply to post by thefreepatriot



Uhh no I think you missed the point of my post entirely, there is documentation of the amount of barium produced in a year, 222 million pounds from those rubber factories and oil processing plants as stated. Where does it get dumped? in the ground... So it will eventually seep into water ways. there is your contamination.

Also the fact that barium oxidises fast doesn't help the argument, remember it oxidises into HYDROGEN. HARMLESS AND INVISIBLE. Two things chemtrails are supposedly NOT. So don't spin what I've said to suit your BS argument.

This is my last post on this one as those who believe this chemtrail nonsense are beyond redemption as far as I'm concerned. It's an advanced stage of paranoia which can only manifest itself in other areas of their personality and for that reason I no longer wish to be involved in this discussion.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I love threads about and discussing this chemtrail topic, because it interests me. It does not mean those of us interested in this topic are paranoid, or what have you. I love watching the sky, and chemtrails intrigue me. It most certainly is not an advanced stage of paranoia, maybe it is an advanced stage of curiosity!

reply to post by thefreepatriot


I don't have to put anything up until you do. You make the initial claim, you demonstrate it. If you are unwilling or unable to do so, then your claims of chemtrails are completely moot. No further discussion is necessary, as you can't prove a thing.

There is no evidence barium is falling from chemtrails. Your hokey amateur attempts of evidence collection are about as far from the scientific method as anything can be. You are guessing what's happening, then assuming that is what's happening.

I'm not attacking you, but your ridiculous idea of what constitutes objective investigation. That is the crux of the problem here - I'm sure you are a very nice person, but I'm equally sure you wouldn't recognise science if it came up to you, introduced itself, handed you its card, and pegged you in the head with a 2-by-4.

reply to post by dave420


No, you try being objective, get off the keyboard and go outside and look for a while. If you're not currently under chemtrails just go to some major metropolitan area and stay a few days. I don't have to prove a damn thing, it's there for you to see. So either take the blinders off or stop trying to put them on other people.

reply to post by arizonascott


Exactly. That is what I'm calling for. Until someone does that, all this "chemtrail" speculation is just that - speculation. No-one can say they definitely exist, as there simply is no evidence for it yet. I'm not saying they exist, but so far I've not seen any evidence to think they are not a different, common, well-known, and well-understood phenomenon that looks identical to these "chemtrails", called contrails.

reply to post by Chadwickus


actually you did help my argument.. because the barium falling down shouldn't exist in the air if it came from factories.... Not spinning anything by the way I doubt jet fuel and exhaust would cause the amount of barium in the air to be 3 times the EPA limit.. .. that would mean everywhere we would constantly have toxic levels of barium. I seriously doubt this.. I will ask a someone I know that is in aviation to see if that much barium is really being released from jet fuel to account for it being 3 times the legal limit.. This would be a serious problem in and of itself.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by anotherdad

 

And how do we know they don't spray at night?

Perhaps they need to see where these chemtrails fall, and well that would be why they are sprayed in the day.

Also most people are out and about during the day, thus maximun exposure (think peak time).

One thing is I know for a FACT they were never around when I was younger, and have only really noticed them in the last few years... what's up with that? I mean don't you want to know why they are so visible now? I know I do.

wZn

[edit on 13-11-2008 by watchZEITGEISTnow]

I grew up on the New Jersery shore in the 70's, I cannot remember a time when they were-not-visible. I've been an aviation hobbiest since the age of 9 or so and lived near a live fire range and not far from an interceptor base and the Philly airport wasn't that far away either so the sky was always a patchwork criss cross.