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The Christians hating gays contradiction

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posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL
You can disagree all you want and even your Bible verse proves my point. That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so the he or she who believeth on him shall have everlasting life and shall not perish.

Guess who perish's? Vengeance is mine saith the lord and casts the sinner into the lake of fire. The sinner ends up there, not the sin and your statement the sinner condemns himself for not believing has nothing to do with whether or not God hates the sinner.

God Judges the sinner pal, their is no two ways about it.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


Yes God judges all of us. He also forgives those who repent. The fact that He tells us He will forgive us leads me to believe that it is our decision to be condemned.

If He hated the sinner none of us would have a chance. We are all sinners. If we accept Christ, God does not condemn us but still holds us accountable for our sin. We are all condemned.

Only God can see if our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. If they are, then we are no longer condemned but are saved through God's mercy. It is still each person's own decision to either accept Christ and live for Him or to live for ourselves.




posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


1 chorinthians 6 vs 9 - 11

9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

notice verse 11 says that is what some of them were. meaning they changed their behaviour. they may have still had inclinations that way but they controled themselves and that is what God expects, simple as that.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
Adult Consent - Do no harm to another.


Having homosexual attractions does not harm anyone, acting on them harms the self and the other. The entire programme of "equality" promoted by gay activism in recent decades does harm to untold people who are led to believe "Oh, so it is an ok option" and engage in a lifestyle which is harmful to them and others in turn.

Recent activism also harms society by seeking to legally penalize others who do not accept this lifestyle when, as civil servants, photographers, hotel/guest house owners, they are leagally obliged to enable the immoral act or loose their jobs/money.

Moral relativism shows it's ugly and intolerant face in this issue, "moral relativism is good (as long as its ours)" Whereas, of course, truth cannot be relative, Truth is Truth or it's just opinion.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Parabol
 

1. Do you not believe in a genetic basis?
2. Do you believe God creates people pre-damned?
3. Do you feel God gives you the right to judge?
4. Do you feel God hates gays, or anyone for that matter?

1.I really don't know. Perhaps there is, some kind of mutation maybe, but logic tells you that it would not be logical for this mutation to exist, certainly no benefits could come of it for the species. The males body is made with the parts to penetrate a female body. They work in harmony together. Except for "other positions" involving other body parts, a homosexual act requires using a part of the body that has a biological use that is very contradictory to something sexual, i don't want to be to specific, but i'm sure you can understand what i mean, one is for eating and one is for the opposite of, my point is they have uses that are not in and of themselves sexual whatsoever. Now i know that two men could do things other than THAT, but i would see THAT as the main way to have intercourse, and it requires one of the two to severely compromise what they sit on. Now why would nature feel the need to develop a mutation that goes contadictory to furthering the species? If it IS genetic, the only TRUE gay person would be one born with both sexual organs, that would be God'd (or nature's) way of saying "pick a team, i gave you equipment for both sides...have fun!"
2.No i do not think people are made pre-damned, i only follow the bible loosely and IF there is a genetic factor, i don't feel that the sin of being gay would be any worse than any other sin, in other words you would be forgiven. No one is without sin if indeed sins exist in that simple sense, and heaven would be a very lonely place if there was no room for forgiveness.
3.No, but he made me born with the common sense to know how a male part plugs into a female part, otherwise you have to get creative to make intercourse happen otherwise, use parts of the body that are meant for other things.BUT show me someone who never judges, and i will show you someone who is brain dead. EVERYONE judges, don't try to say you do not.
4.God would only hate one who sets out everyday to destroy faith, and even that would be hard for me to believe, i feel that person would be pitied.

I have my faults...but i do not feel so insecure about them that i feel i must voice it till my lips are blue. Gays having rallies seems to me akin to me wanting to have a parade about how much i love to play video games...i wasn't born with a predisposition to love video games, it developed. The parades don't bother me, but i'm just kinda like "what's the point?" From a psychological standpoint it seems as though the majority of gay people feel guilty or insecure about what they are and are always seeking some type of approval OR displeasure. Either one will suffice for them as long as they are not ignored. The same goes for those Christians who feel the need to rally against gays, what are they trying to accomplish? They know they will not "covert" a gay man to being straight, so what need are they trying to compensate for? I cannot tell you the answer to that, but it feels safe to say the fault would lie in some insecurity or another.
I feel it is totally natural to be able to admire and find those of the same sex attractive, most girls I know can admit that they tried kissing their girlfriends when discovering sexual urges, i have a feeling that most guys have loked at another man and thought..."you know, if i was gay, HE would be my type." But good luck getting them to admit it. Me, i have no problems telling you that i find David Bowie back in his prime, or Trent Reznor, sexy. But i honestly do not have a desire to have sex with them. I find them attractive, i think that is me finding qualities in them that I wished i possesed, an insecurity if you will. I am slightly jealous of their sexual energy and i think that is what makes them attractive to me. But i could never perform the act even if i had a whole bottle of viagra. I tried kissing a friend of mine as a teenager, and it did not turn me on. It didn't gross me out, but it was just kinda like "well, that's it? hmmm...i hope it's way better when i finially get to kiss a girl." and it was...boy oh boy it was.
Nature or God made us with these bodies of ours, and logic tells you how we fit together, i just don't see why the mutation would not only exist but seems to be increasing, if anything, the mistake would be faded out. But, then again, why is down syndrome not being phased out? It doesn't benefit the species either. someone who will discuss this with me (both for and against what i have said) that will be polite and not flame me for anything i've said, would be welcome to engage in a discussion with.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by MAINTAL
You can disagree all you want and even your Bible verse proves my point. That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so the he or she who believeth on him shall have everlasting life and shall not perish.

Guess who perish's? Vengeance is mine saith the lord and casts the sinner into the lake of fire. The sinner ends up there, not the sin and your statement the sinner condemns himself for not believing has nothing to do with whether or not God hates the sinner.

God Judges the sinner pal, their is no two ways about it.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


Yes God judges all of us. He also forgives those who repent. The fact that He tells us He will forgive us leads me to believe that it is our decision to be condemned.

If He hated the sinner none of us would have a chance. We are all sinners. If we accept Christ, God does not condemn us but still holds us accountable for our sin. We are all condemned.

Only God can see if our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. If they are, then we are no longer condemned but are saved through God's mercy. It is still each person's own decision to either accept Christ and live for Him or to live for ourselves.

good post... i stared it. i feel the same. i think going against god and nature is a sin...but so is the way i destroy my body (the temple) i cover it with grafitti, put things in it that destroy my liver, i have many many sins, but i do not flaunt them like i am PROUD of them. I feel that when gays flaunt it, sometimes they just want to be cheeky (forgive the unintended pun
) but other times it is because they are feeling guilt, or insecure about it.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Supercertari

Originally posted by Annee
Adult Consent - Do no harm to another.


Having homosexual attractions does not harm anyone, acting on them harms the self and the other. The entire programme of "equality" promoted by gay activism in recent decades does harm to untold people who are led to believe "Oh, so it is an ok option" and engage in a lifestyle which is harmful to them and others in turn.

Recent activism also harms society by seeking to legally penalize others who do not accept this lifestyle when, as civil servants, photographers, hotel/guest house owners, they are leagally obliged to enable the immoral act or loose their jobs/money.

Moral relativism shows it's ugly and intolerant face in this issue, "moral relativism is good (as long as its ours)" Whereas, of course, truth cannot be relative, Truth is Truth or it's just opinion.

star for you also! i shoulda read the whole thing before posting, sems ya'll have said what i did, but my list was just a bigger compilation.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Supercertari

Originally posted by Annee
Adult Consent - Do no harm to another.


Having homosexual attractions does not harm anyone, acting on them harms the self and the other.


I have never been harmed by a person being gay. Your fear is showing.

People are People. Stereotyping is annoying.

Gays are as vast and different in personality - profession - likes & dislikes - as in any large "labeled" group. They're just wired different - - just as someone is wired for Red Hair or Green Eyes.

I worked at a company that hired mostly gays/lesbians - even couples. I was the minority straight. Was I harmed in any way? Absolutely not. If anything I was enlightened to the normalcy of being wired different. I was different - I wasn't wired gay.

I believe in a Creator - - - but religion is man made - in my opinion.

I believe Christ and other prophets were sent to earth to help Humans evolve from a barbaric type thinking - - to a more enlightened spiritual awareness. Some Christians understand that - some don't.

Those who do - accept people for who they are.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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also to add, if any sin is worse than another....why wasn't homosexuailty in the 10 commandments. i feel this is why christians feel the need to condemn gays, because the straight christians (not all but most) feel the need to demonize gays because that straight christian is an adulterer, say's G.D., or any of the other commandment get broken by them.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
I have never been harmed by a person being gay. Your fear is showing.


With all duie respect might I enquire if you read the rest of this post and my previous contribution here?

I am not saying homosexually predisposed people are any threar or harm to me, only in so far as I find myself living in a state and a time where immorality is expected to be protected by the state.

The harm the individual (who surrenders to the impulse to act out their predisposition in this case) and the other, experiences is that they are acting in a manner which contravenes both the revealed Law of God and His law as manifest in Natural Law. They are not living as intended and are constructing obstacles between themselves and the source of all love and compassion.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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I apologize for not reading the entire thread, but I wanted to address this point:


Originally posted by panda319
I read somewhere that the homosexual portion was a mistranslation also.


The Bible and Homosexuality is a great source with a LOT of information about the original meaning of the Aramaic and Hebrew words that modern-day Christians claim is the basis for homosexuality being a "sin".

Without the mistranslation of the modern-day bibles, the condemnation of homosexuality falls COMPLETELY apart. In fact, there was not even a word for homosexuality when the bible was written.

You can find a word-by-word analysis of the original bible verses of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 that shows that homosexual activity is fine, just not in the bed of a woman, because that bed is sacrosanct. It's a very interesting and informative section.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Supercertari

Originally posted by Annee
I have never been harmed by a person being gay. Your fear is showing.


With all duie respect might I enquire if you read the rest of this post and my previous contribution here?


Gays are born as God made them. He would not have made them gay and expect them to pretend to be something else.

Perhaps Gods real intent - in wiring some humans differently - like making some humans with dark skin - is acceptance - understanding - love - and tolerance from people such as your self.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Who says God made them gay, You? Also please show me where there is genetic proof of the "gay" gene. That has been debunked about 10 years ago.

Another thing who says christains hate gays? That is such a bunch of crap i cant see straight.

That in truth would be a sin like adultry, alcoholism, lying ect. One is not worse than the other and ALL are choice or personal prefference.

Im so sick of these posts that generalize everything about a particular belief.

What about the militant gays that disrupt churches and attack old lady's? I suppose that is dna also.

Give me a break and grow up and do some research for yourself!



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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It almost sounds like Christians think being gay is a disease they can catch. Look out, stay away, isolate them so I won't turn gay. Maybe they protest so much because they are curious.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Blueracer
 

Well, maybe! You see God DOES love the sinner and not the sin, that is true, but He also said homosexuality was an abombination unto him and that he HATED this behavior. He went on to show his anger at the temple goings ons where their was homosexual behavior happening there that man should not be with man and women should not be with woman.Text
Not my words........The Lord's words!

Now, I don't care what two people do in their own bedroom. Not none of my business. But, when you begin to picket and get mean and angry and hurt old ladies...........you do not help your cause.

I am against gay marriage. I think I would still be against it even if I was not a Christian. Just because common sense tells you it is wrong. You can say you were born that way and all other kind of reasons. The bottom line is you are the way you are because you choose to be. So accept the fact that the majority of the people in the U.S. do not support this life style and most likely never will.

I am sorry if I come across mean and not tolerant. But what has been in the news lately does not show gays being very tolerant either.

Peace,
Grandma



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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I'm a Grandma too - - and I support Full Equal Rights - and Separation of Church and State.

Is is Man and Man's own fears choosing to interpret the bible to say/mean what they want it to say - in my opinion.

Who ever God is - he gave me a brain and free will - I am not his puppet.

As the woman of Mormon for Marriage website says (in my words): we want couples in committed - loving relationships. We need to allow them the tools to do that. Marriage is one of those tools.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Please explain to me how the Hebrew says that you can have male gay relations, just not on a womans bed.????
I can't find the discussion on that site.


What do you think this means in Greek?

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


[edit on 14-11-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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When will we get past the Ignorance that it is Choice?

That's what you choose to believe.

How many young Christian/Mormon men have committed suicide because they can't accept their God given birth right?

People who call it a choice - really make me angry.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Gays are born as God made them. He would not have made them gay and expect them to pretend to be something else.


"Gays"? I don't think one's focus of attraction should define anyone. God does not make anyone have their natural inclination to immorality - that's called concupisence our inheritence from Adam's fault.* God does not want us to pretend anything, He wants us to be that we which are created to be - His image and likeness. A potential which, by grace, triumphs over the brokenness that aflicts post-fall creation.


Perhaps Gods real intent - in wiring some humans differently - like making some humans with dark skin - is acceptance - understanding - love - and tolerance from people such as your self.


The colour of a person's skin is irrelevant to me, as is gender and the other amoral factors of life. I accept all people with love as my brothers and sisters and as such identify with and understand the trials of trying to live one's life as best as one can with whatever thorns in the side each of us might be afflicted with. With that I never need to use that ugly word "tolerance" - I don't "endure" other people and their foibles, I love them. Because I love and, as a person myself, understand people I object to the enabling of that which makes us less than we really are - just as I hope people would object to my own faults being enabled.

*Interestingly, in Catholic Churches throughout the world Easter Sunday begins with the Exsultet which contains the line "O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer! "



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Parabol
 


First and formost, hpomosexuality is not genetic. It was never been proven, nor has the gene ever been found.

Secondly, if it were, then identical twins would, by necessity, both be gay. If one were, then the other one would have to be too, which is clearly not the case.. Which leads to the third point.

The gays claim that in the case of identical twins, the straight one is just fooling themselves and denying his "true" self; choosing to be straight. If one can choose their sexuality so must the other.

The gays also claim that the physicality of the brain differs between gay and straight people, thus homosexuality must be genetic. Wrong. The brain is a muscle and evolves with stimuli and use. Different areas are stimulated by different experiences as a child grows. Thus if anything, homosexuality should be connsidered a learned/conditioned behavior.

Still, none the less, nothing wrong with being gay.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Supercertari - - I simply have nothing more to say to you.

Enjoy your bible.





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