Warning: the ultimate ethics question to Obama supporters

IF, and I stress the hypothetical-

IF Obama were not a natural born citizen, then the only action I would be willing to take on his part is to write a letter to my representative in congress to suggest that a constitutional amendment should be proposed and voted on. And if the people would not tollerate their congress making that amendment, then Obama could not be president. Period. That's why it's called the LAW of the Land, and not the "quaint outdated tradition of the land". In democratic nations you have to do things right- even when you're certain the other side is wrong.


However, I am confident that Obama does meet the qualifications, and I have reason for believing this beyond what is usually discussed. I believe that powerful individuals conspired to make sure that both of our candidates in this election were born outside of the CONUS, who are qualified to hold the office but whose qualifications would always remain suspect in the minds of some.

I believe this is an attempt to undermine the natural born requirement so that it will not be as closely examined when a candidate is presented to us who is unqualified.

The goal, I believe, was to put either Obama or McCain in office under a cloud of controversy that would never be fully examined by the courts (trust me on this one, the SCOTUS will deny cert on Berg v Obama once Obama gives his response, but the media won't go out of its way to convince us that the right decision was made).

Then, god knows when in the future, when for some reason they have selected a candidate who is not a natural born citizen, a non-existant precedent can be cited, in the form of "Well, it's not that big of a deal. Looking back we kind of suspect that Obama might not have been natural born, and he worked out fine, so don't worry".

This will be done in much the same way that some hardcore conservatives during the Bush administration have gone back and cited Lincoln's suspension of Habeus Corpus in an inaccurately broad context as an argument in favor of executive superiority to the constitution.

Long story short, the law is the law, period... until it finally snaps after generations of slow bending.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
IF, and I stress the hypothetical-
I believe that powerful individuals conspired to make sure that both of our candidates in this election were born outside of the CONUS, who are qualified to hold the office but whose qualifications would always remain suspect in the minds of some.

I believe this is an attempt to undermine the natural born requirement so that it will not be as closely examined when a candidate is presented to us who is unqualified.

Interesting theory. And who would that be? I recall the noise from the right to change the constituition so that Arnold could run for president.

Actually I would prefer him over most of the other usual suspects from the Republican party.

I don't think my governator really has enough going for him in the eyes of The Powers That Be.

My guess is that it's a generation or two away- maybe phase II of the NAU will be a Canadian PM running for POTUS.

It just doesn't make sense to put a foreigner directly in charge when he could just puppet-string a qualified individual (like they've been doing for years already).

The only scenario where it really makes a lot of sense to me is a "uniting of the crowns" so to speak.

Scratch that- Americans have never shown that level of respect to our neighbors. We won't even acknowledge simple objective facts- like their football being harder than ours and their beer being better than ours (not that we have our own beer- we sold it to the Belgians).

More likely they'd put in a canadian who wasn't in government, then they'd find a vacant seat for him to fill in parliament and make him PM after he was POTUS. Afterall, if there's anything we Americans know how to say, it's "me first".

reply to post by The Vagabond


Well it has historical precedent... most of the Emperors after Nerva came from the provinces including the best... Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I would still be for him...even if he was not a citizen. If USA were a corporation....which it is run more like one more and more every day...then we want the best man for the job. Sometimes the best man to run company X is someone that is not a US citizen...SO, if it were discovered that the best man for the job, who was qualified in every way, EXCEPT he couldn't prove his citizenship...how is that going to affect his ability to run USA Incorporated?

reply to post by pyrytyes

hahahahahaha
(chokes on drink, spits on computer screen)
thanks for the reply!

reply to post by The Vagabond

me thinks you are spot on with most of that. I that reason both candidates being "loosely" natural born is a way to make this law have less power YEARS from now.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


Well I was hoping you would mostly take note of the other half of my post

If we truly have a democratic vote (do we?) then any issue with said POTUS candidate's origin of birth would reflect in the vote anyways.

I say if his certificate ends up being bunk, disbar and convict him of falsified documentation of citizenship.

reply to post by BeyondBelow


No way in hell we should convict Obama for that if we are not going to throw Bush in prison..

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


very true but thats not what the question was. I guess my point is you are not going to be saved by any one man, in any office, religion aside I mean.

This is an interesting question. I had to ask myself if Ron Paul were not a natural born citizen, would I support his run for presidency. I see him as the most constitutionaly qualified person for the job as far as his resume. That being said, I could not support, nor help him win the job for this one simple rule.

Can you guys imagine if we decided that anyone could run for the job?

Some of you sound like you'd support the NWO just as long as your guy was elected.

I am however satisfied that Mr. Obama is a legal citizen and will support his presidency until he gives me reason to not.

reply to post by tmbandt


But what satified you??? How do you know at this as the b.C> released is in question and his own family member is saying he isnt a natural born citizen. By the way I voted for ron in the pre lims and then later saw him throwing up the cathura and exchanging masonic grips on real time with Bill Maeher, then I said scre$ that guy. No one got my vote, besides I kind of figured that obama would be"installed" any way.

reply to post by BeyondBelow
Man, I've heard the back and forth over he is, or isn't a legal citizen. Like an above poster mentioned, his mother is a legal resident. Apparently also, his birth certificate has been authenticated. (still fuzzy on this though).

That being said, if someone can state for certainty with verifyable proof that he is in fact, not an American citizen, then I say throw him out. No problem here.

I'm no fan of his. Just willing to give him a chance.

TPTB won't let that happen believe me. If they didn't want him to be president Bush 44 would be getting inaugurated on Jan. 20th

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

well at the risk of sounding stupid... i need u to tell me what that statement means. look, i am only lately interested in politics, i do not know what POTUS is for that matter. so why make this post you may ask, if i am so uneducated, i will tell ya'll now:
this was an exercise to make people realize that our leaders are faced with this contradiction of morals all the time. it is the nature of the beast. i think many of you saying u wouldn't do it are not being honest, or or not realizing i was posing a situation where it WOULD be for the better of america to bend or break the rule in certain cases. how can u argue that with the conditions laid out; i.e. him beaing the absoulute best candidate, him being the savior for the economy, AND no one ever finding out about the transgression of the law, how could you NOT do what would benefit americans the most? our leaders are faced with that choice everyday to be sure.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by BeyondBelow

 

No way in hell we should convict Obama for that if we are not going to throw Bush in prison..

thank you for saying EXACTLY what i was gonna type.

reply to post by BeyondBelow

no we won't be saved by any one man, but the conditions laid out for this psychological exercise said that he would. this was made to make you guys realize the choices our leaders face on ethics.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


POTUS is the acron for = President Of The United States.

What I meant was that requiring a Presidential candidate to be 'natural born' of the USA is not necessary.

If us, The People, have issues with the idea that a Presidential candidate is not born in the US (or natural born) i.e think the candidate is a spy, Muslim in disguise, Manchurian Candidate, etc, etc... it will reflect in each persons opinion and thus reflect in the majority vote. If people have issues with it, it will reflect in the majority vote anyways.

Did that clarify? If not lemme know.