well i live in NYC and since there are tons of pidgeons here i observed that they are not afraid of us humans anymore....they never fly away when we walk close...and they seem more aggressive at getting food....maybe birds really are raptors and they are evolving back to raptors....but once they actually do we would have it under control....but its pretty weird...they never take off just walk away for us to move through....any1 have a thought?

Cookie, i also live in NY but not in the city, I live in the suburbs of Yonkers heh but i have been to nyc on many many occasions and yes your correct they arent afraid that much all you have to do is walk in a park with seeds and theyll come heh well i dont know about the raptor stuff but your theory may or may not be correct im not sure, maybe someone else has an imput after me?

I would think if you chased them an gave them the good ol' foot-up-the-ass treatment, they would begin flying away again.

They are losing their fear of humans, because people just ignore them. Over generations, pigeons learned that we wont hurt them, but instead give them food.
This is just a behavioral adaptaton to allow it to get more food.

I highly doubt that anytime soon they will begin attacking us and take over the world. When they start growing scales and/or teeth I will begin to get concerned . Untill then... I think were safe.

Its a learned behavour. "Its not evolving".

Slowly over generations they learn not to be afraid of humans, this does not create any physiological change in the pigeon, only in the way the exhibit the learning they have aquired from their parents and other pigeons.

I read somewhere that in London, they have worked out how to take the underground tube from station to station instead of flying

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Netchicken]

yep, pigeons arn't afriad of humans because they have learned that we will not hurt them. its not an evelutionary adaptation but simple learning.

Here's me thought:
No, I don't think they're evolving. Think about it: These birds are around thousands upon thousands of people day in and day out. Maybe they are learning no to be afraid of humans because they know we pose no real threat. However, I suppose on could consider that evoulution.

There's my two cents worth.

Hmm...well, like most animals, these 'raptor-like' pigeons are just doing what WE have taught them. They aren't scared anymore because, somehow, they realized that all we are doing is feeding them - its instict. Go to the food. Even humans do that. All in all, they are probably NOT raptors, lol, but just doing what their instict tells them to do - eat.

-wD

Originally posted by CookieMonster000
maybe birds really are raptors and they are evolving back to raptors...

Seriously dude, to go from picking up small pieces of hamburgers, to hunting down humans in groups probably takes a bit more....

Evolving, maybe to a point. But I am betting it's more of a domesticated thing. Having been around humans so long, it's not like living in the woods and hardly ever seeing a human. Pigeons just live off of what humans leave behind, and they will probably evolve along those lines. Maybe perhaps growing little hands for grasping or something.

(as a side note, I bet one day that pigeons will be a carrier of disease that humans can contract, leading to another great plague)

That thought makes me think of dogs and cats. If one day they will develop the ability for speach--having been around humans for so long. About 10,000 years or so according to some studies. They're bound to evolve to better fit their surroundings eventually if the contact between dogs/cats and humans continues...

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by Thorfinn Skullsplitter]

I live in the city too. When i walk by, they move out of my way without flying away. They just move to the side.

I doubt there going to turn back to raptors anytime soon if they even go back to that state. But I agree, that they have just learnt to not be afraid of us.

Yeah I go to Chicago a couple times a year for the museams and deep dish pizza, but anywho I have noticed that pigeons aren't afraid of humans either yet they seem to be afraid of cars and cars have been around in large numbers longer than any pigeon has lived. It may be evolution. If they turn back into raptors were all in deep doo-doo

wouldnt it still be called evolving even though they are evolving mentally? i have a question isnt our mental thing physical too? if yes then why the hell do we call it mental instead of physical

While I think some species continue to evolve including humans I agree that this is more of a case of adapting to their environment.

There's a place in Bend Oregon, sort of a tourist spot where you can go and check out the some waterfalls and rapids and stuff. There are tons of chipmunks around and they come right up to you and stand on their hind legs until you give them a nut or something.

They're not evolving they just know that there is no way a human is going to hurt them.

I got a tell you it's pretty damn adorable when two chip and dale looking critters come right up to you and beg for nuts.

If you live in the Bend area take a girl their on an afternoon it's a great date spot.

Spiderj

Yeah i agree they just got used too us after that long period of time and hey just fly on top of you if you have some seeds commen sense can tell you that they are used to us by now.