Why GM will fail . . .

Should GM fold is not for me to guess or judge. However... IF the government doesn't help some other industries the average person would see that the Bailout was nothing more than the government giving cash to the banks.

I'm not sure the government can take that if that comes out. The average joe wold see that the governement doesn't care for them only their banking croonies.

Besides, what's the use of stable banks without companies to solidify the economy?

I think it's interesting on how these two political parties are apparently "splitting" this 700 billion dollars. Where's all of the profits at that GM and these others have supposedly lost? I seriously doubt it was in the stock market either. Bonus shills or people who don't even exist? Let's see the real books.

Let them declare bankruptcy and see if they can restructure. GM is in this mess because of the ridiculous contracts with the UAW. GM can't fire or layoff workers even if there is no work. They must pay workers even if they are sitting doing nothing. Lifetime health care for all former employees and spouses is just not affordable. They are bleeding cash and can't complete with the Japanese auto makers. $3000 from each car or truck sale goes to pay for union benefits.

To save money they sacrificed quality and started using inferior parts. The last GM car I owned had so many problems and was in and out of the dealer so many times for repair. I gave up and now drive a Japanese car because I just couldn't deal with all the problems. At least it was made in the USA.

The govenment giving up $25B will only delay their demise if they do not change the way they do business.

Looks like the execs from the big three along with the leader of the UAW, and some representation from the CAW went to Washington and laid a rotten egg or a golden egg depending on your position in this matter.

In short, and based on what they had to say, the only thing I can come up with is . . . um . . .

Stop your whining you bunch of short sighted, greedy, nest feathering, self aggrandized snivelling bastards. You're all to blame for this so go fall on your swords, declare bankruptcy. Put your spongy, brylcream covered heads together and find a better, less expensive, more forward thinking way to do what it is you do and rebuild to the proud companies and labour movements you once were because right now from where I'm sitting, you all look like preschool kids sitting in poopy diapers waiting for a big old government teat from which you can suck. Grow up and deal with it you whining bunch of grovelling maggots and DO SOMETHING USEFUL THAT BENEFITS THIS COUNTRY AND NOT JUST YOUR DAMN BOTTOM LINES

sheesh . . . sorry . . . I just had to let that out.

I'm going for a walk.

Oh yeah . . . I got so sizzed about this, I forgot the link to their sob story . . . Poopy Diaper Club





[edit on 18-11-2008 by GoalPoster]

GM will fail because it's not a bank. Paulson was very clear today. I strongly believe that we need to save the Big 3 as a matter of national security. However, I also blame the Big 3 for their lack of vision and the hiding of so much patents and new technology. The oil and car industry shot themselves with DEMAND DESTRUCTION ever since the Lehman boys speculated that we (the US population) would pay any price for a gallon of gas.

Another huge problem with these giants is they make to many models. Its plain ridiculous how many cars are made every year.

GM is comprised of 9 car company brands. (Chevy, GMC, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Buick and Cadillac)

Between those 9 they produce 81 different models. Each one of those 81 models gets replaced every year with a new model.

Now just think about that for a bit.

I just heard that GM wants this bailout to keep them on their feet until 2010 what happens then? Reviewing the number of GM plants on Wikipedia I noticed a plant due to be completed by 2010 in Mexico. How does that come into play with this 2010 time line?

The auto industry has known it needed to restructure. Instead they chose to spend their profits on expansion establishing plants in foreign countries. The Auto industry obviously did not feel America was worth the investment and yet it now wants that same "America" to invest in them. Outrageous It's extortion we have to bail them out or we will loose our jobs. They are telling us look if you want us to stay in your country employing your citizens then all combined are going to pay for that privilege.

BS! I'll have to look it up or watch the repeating CNN news I get but an official in DC who is against this auto industry bailout made such an excellent point. His feeling was that small business could possibly be the saving grace for our economy he suggested the amount used in this bailout would go a long way in helping 500,000 small businesses here in the US. I am not sure if this number reflects the auto bailout alone or if he was including the banking bailout too. If the auto bailout could help 500,000 small business how many total if we considered the cost when all is said and done?

Small businesses impact local economies very quickly once operations begin. GM on the other hand could phase out operations in the US anytime they choose they obviously do what's best for the bottom line. That being said the concept of giving breaks to corporations to ensure trickle down to the common man is a load of BS but it sure sounds good. That only works if corporations have a conscience they do not. No instead I suggest if we take care of many small American business they will directly impact many local communities in a better way than the impact currently made by these sheltered corporate monsters.

Now in a economy based on multiple small independent businesses there will be no vast corporate billions to be had by the sharks on Wall Street or money to be made by corporate lobbyists we could go on and on why corporate America would not want to do away with the system they have put in place.

No if these bail outs do not happen maybe it would put a big hurt on corporate America let them take it in the shorts for once. We have to ask ourselves who/what would we rather support with our tax dollars restructuring our economy and helping those who have suffered job losses or American corporations who have repeatedly refused to invest profit back in their own business and America?

I do not trust corporate giants to do whats right for the good of the people. Corporations are loyal only to their shareholders they will back stab, lobby, manipulate the stock market, make shady deals with foreign governments etc. whatever it takes to increase that profit margin. It's what they do.

Don't be fooled by lies and fear mongering. I am not denying things are in the crapper it's just I don't for one minute believe the lie that corporations will help us if we help them. The very government officials that have not only allowed this corporate stronghold on our economy they encouraged it and personally profited from it now dare to tell us they know what's best. BS it's funny governments solution just happens to be throwing money at their cherished corporate American dream that has made them filthy rich. They keep it chugging along we keep greasing the wheels.

Well maybe the Auto industry needs to write a letter to every share holder admitting past profits were enjoyed under false pretenses and now that profit money is needed to bail out the cash cow. Pass "that hat" amongst the elite is what I suggest they do.

Many will argue that American retirement plans invested in corporate America and will suffer greatly. Well I know next to nothing about investment management yet I know diversification and risk management is considered when putting together investment portfolios. I'm sorry if some corporate account executives went to the "moron school of finance" it's really not fair to hold me accountable for that.

We are getting further off the grid than we already are. I Don't know how much longer we will keep electricity. We use very little now and if it wasn't for the refrigerator and the computer/ATS I would turn it off. I am sick and disgusted beyond extreme.

I am all for supporting American jobs and businesses but I prefer to support it through my purchase power not my tax dollars.Will GM fail? Imo only if it is highly profitable for those that really count.

Originally posted by Morningglory
I'll have to look it up or watch the repeating CNN news I get but an official in DC who is against this auto industry bailout made such an excellent point. His feeling was that small business could possibly be the saving grace for our economy he suggested the amount used in this bailout would go a long way in helping 500,000 small businesses here in the US. I am not sure if this number reflects the auto bailout alone or if he was including the banking bailout too. If the auto bailout could help 500,000 small business how many total if we considered the cost when all is said and done?

The proposed auto bailout of $25B is exactly enough to give a loan or grant of $500,000 to each of 500,000 small businesses. Imagine a local barber getting $500k to improve his shop, a startup manufacturer getting $500k to buy raw materials...hell, I've long wanted to open my own bakery; with $500k I could easily rent a shop and fit it, fill inventory, advertise, and hire one or two people to get the breads and cakes cranking.

I wonder how many jobs would be created with half a million new or improved small businesses?

what do you expect when you run 11 commercials during the last superbowl at 3mil ea.

Plus..is it really worth advertising at the end of Monday night football "GM post game show"

reply to post by anachryon

That's what I'm talking about! I would rather see someone like you be given the opportunity to use my tax dollars as opposed to uncaring corporate giants.

Not to mention the level of quality would improve greatly imo as the owner of a small business is more active in the operation and oversight.

I think it would be better for us as a society rather than this giant corporate mill town existence garbage they're shoving down our throats.

By the way we could sure use a bakery in our nice little town.

Yesterday, when in front of the Congessional Committee, an elected representative said he didn't believe in the bailout because the leaders of the Big Three would just continue to make the same 'stupid' decisions as they have in the past.

Funny . . . I came across this gem. Here's the best part . . .

GM to temporarily stop production at Thai plant

Some 2,000 workers will be sent home and paid 75 percent of their normal salaries while furloughed, he said. Shutting the plant will also help the company to save on costs such as transport and meals for workers.

Man . . . they've even infected the worker's across the pond with the 'get paid to carve bum' mentality.

And they wonder why they're freakin' broke.

Sheesh.

I've read this thread about the bail out and how the Big 3 treat their suppliers. I worked for a plastics supplier to the Big 3 called The American Team. I created a photo video collage to kind of tell the story. We were driven out of business by the hostile and unfair business practices of the Big 3. The last production day was April 30, 2008.



The American Team WAS a 42-year-old mid sized plastic supplier to the auto industry employing upwards of 300 people. GM was 65% of the business. The company was subsidizing GM essentially paying them to take our product. An appeal was made to GM executives to waive the 3% kick back, which they call a “supplier giveback” and pay for the increased costs of raw materials. GM officials balked severing their ties. They failed to live up to their agreements and moral obligations. They left refusing to pay the several million dollars owed to the company. To add insult to injury they informed our remaining customers to exit as well. This insured the company could never ever recover or fight for redress. All attempts to refinance were met with cold denial due to the credit crunch. These are PREDATORY BUSINESS PRACTICES combined with the economic melt down and we were not the first or the last supplier to be run out of business by GM. Nobody bailed us out!

GM has harmed many suppliers or drove them out of business with the give back scheme that reduced part prices by 3% per year forever as a condition of bid award. They are slow to pay, delaying payments for received product beyond normal contract terms. GM’s quality group would find obscure errors in part dimensions to use as excuses to delay paying for capital investments made by the supplier. Millions of dollars delayed months to years. Refusal to pay the givebacks or cut costs would result in re-sourcing of the work to a company that would. The cycle would repeat again and again killing suppliers along the way. GM milked suppliers for all they were worth. Their efficiency and profits were built on the backs of the suppliers! Congress must compel GM to reform their unfair business practices and award bids fairly and honestly. Only then can American suppliers succeed.

GM and others will fail now more than ever if the Govt is in charge of the reorganization. We will end up with cars for the mass populace.

Just like these:





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[edit on 9-12-2008 by jibeho]

Our economy is under attack people, wake up. China and Japan own alot of our soil now, and they want more, and even worse they have got all of our numbers on how to get it from us. I know we have alot of catching up to do. But don't forget where all of these over seas companies learned there trades... From us. Everyone get ready to lower you standard of living, get ready to work for 23 cent an hour. O o o I know what your thinking, "Honda, Toyota are built in this counrty", this is true but... the money we Americans pay for their cars goes back to their country. I say again WAKE UP, and lets talk about fair trade agreements lets talk about standardizing the pay scale globaly and then lets see how things shake out. Do we need to bail out our auto companies? Yes. BUT we also need to throw the CEO's over board, and hire new world thinkers for new world problems, and your standard Yale/Harvard piece of paper will not cut it anymore. Wake up Americans, its time we take care of our own interests before we have none left.. Its not a bad thing to be proud to be American.

Short verson of a long story

GM Demanded price cuts. We refused

GM was 8 hours of out 110 hour workweek.

GM was more bother than they were worth.

GM Buyer didn't tell his boss that we were not reupping our contract

GM Threatened our company President with legal action

We didn't sign the papers

GM Called anf assembly plant was going to shut down because we didn't ship parts

We had no business with GM so no parts

GM buyer moved on to somewhere else

We demanded 10% increase for parts and would sign a 90 day agreement

GM Said no

GM production stopped

GM big boss demanded we be in his office at 8AM the next day to sign papers.

We went to breakfast at 8 AM the next day

2 days later we sent a courier with the contract we demanded and everybody signed.

We shipped parts to GM that they rejected for various reasons over the last year and they were very happy with them.

GM never paid us for the parts and we had no further dealings with them.

Our company is doing pretty good in these bad times

GM ???????