Obama and Hitler; same speech coach?

Originally posted by Sonya610

A lot of people supported McCain because they did NOT like Obama, or because they were die hard republicans (and a lot of republicans did not like McCain).

And a lot of people voted for Obama because they are die-hard Democrats! A lot of people voted for Obama because they were anti-McCain! I personally know many people that voted for Obama primarily because they didn't want McCain to win. I almost voted for Obama because I didn't want McCain to win.

A lot of people supported Obama because he represents "change" and he is "pc" and he is "ethnic" and yes...he is a good speaker!

I have no doubt! But to blanket the majority under this assumption is unfair. Unfair on many levels.

Platform? Yes, no more war! Happy times! Hope...change...Hope! Did i mention hope???

Correct. Platform. Policies. Suggestions. Ideas. They both had them, and many people actually listened and understood them for what they were, persuasion aside.

As for the 'No War'. Anyone that paid attention would know that both supported a strong continual presence in the Middle East. Which upset me.

This last election was powered on EMOTION!

I have zero issues with this. Emotion is an enormously important aspect of the human condition and of our society at large. It's something wholly lacking in politics, hence many of the problems in our times.

The last election was powered by emotion as well. People were very emotional about the War and about Bush being in office and about the infringements on civil rights and liberties.

Again you seem to be alluding something as a negative (EMOTION), and that only the Obama supporters were affected by it. At least insofar as they let it get the best of them, them alone.

Fear, love, whatever, but it was 90% about emotion.

90% emotion and 10% brain. Is this your position? How does this contrast with the hypnotism idea?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
90% emotion and 10% brain. Is this your position? How does this contrast with the hypnotism idea?

Lucid, you know I respect your opinions. But I truly do not feel like debating the old McCain/Obama platforms thing. It is done, over. Up to the history writers now.

This is about speech styles, and the possibility of Hitler's speech coach lending their expertise to Obama. And yes I do believe the speech coach understood the basics of hypnosis. : )

But I do have to ask, why is this upsetting you? And you DO seem a bit fired up! Is it your love for Obama's platform, or is it that perhaps, in just a tiny way, the idea that speech alone can have so much influence? You almost sound defensive here. : )

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


Oh no. I am not upset or fired up at all

Exclamation marks were intended for emphasis, but not for fire. Sorry about that.

My point is that all these variables we are talking about are pertinent and applied to both candidates. Which is why it's not a fair assumption to think the majority of Obama supporters voted the way they did primarily because they were persuaded by good public speaking.

As for oratory hypnosis. Yes I am sure he does. This is wholly different then the gravity of hypnosis in a clinical setting. I read NLP books and I have been hypnotized in a clinical setting. Definitely a difference NLP, or whatever it is to be called, is simply a part of the arsenal of public speaking technique, adopted by public speakers at large.

Also, Lucid never votes Democrat I did agree with more of Obama's platform then McCains, but that's the extent of it.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
My point is that all these variables we are talking about are pertinent and applied to both candidates.

No. Not applied equally to both. McCain really suc….errm..lacks as an orator. McCain was not even in the same league!

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Which is why it's not a fair assumption to think the majority of Obama supporters voted the way they did primarily because they were persuaded by good public speaking.

Fact is, yes people were unhappy, that is true. But do not underestimate the power of persuasion. And do not overestimate the average intellect. I do honestly believe that the “swing” was in large part due to charismatic/hypnotic influence.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
As for oratory hypnosis. Yes I am sure he does. This is wholly different then the gravity of hypnosis in a clinical setting. I read NLP books and I have been hypnotized in a clinical setting. Definitely a difference

NLP, or whatever it is to be called, is simply a part of the arsenal of public speaking technique, adopted by public speakers at large.

First of all, if you have been hypnotized in a clinical setting then I would assume you were willing and you chose to engage in that. You chose to PAY for it (or make your insurance company pay). Secondly, realize most people are not that bright, and yes they ARE easily influenced. Seriously they really are. Obama is one of the best speakers in quite a while, plus he had desperation on his side.

Nevertheless it is intentional and orchestrated, and it goes way way beyond platform (which was pretty flimsy).

Answer me this, did you watch the last clip I posted? Have you noticed the difference in annunciaton? The lack of ethnic accent? It is all very well choreographed. And the best persuader should win, no doubt. But do not think for ONE MOMENT that they do not REALIZE that they are the best, and that their superior talents got them there. And yes it is a game, it is all about the sheeple!



[edit on 13-11-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


I believe you have missed the point completely. I was not originally for Obama at the start as much as I was for anyone other than the republican party member this time. The emotion was not just from women but from every other black male and folks over 40 - 60 yrs old that were involved in the civil rights movement of the '60s & '70s. I was initially glad to see the election won by the dems, but i was unexpectedlyoverwhelmed with emotion. I could not understand why, but it dawned upon me - that all of my suffrage, my parents and siblings suffrage and 400 years of suppression finally came to boiling point and possible end. Where was your rhetoric when Bush took away our Constitutional Rights during his first 100days and 60 days of 911? Make sure you understand your vocab of a dictator first before it happens. Do not fear let rule you or we will fail as a nation.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by PlatNuMonk]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Watch the videos of Hitler, one of the most compelling speakers of the 20th century. Notice the rhythm, the pace, the pauses, the hand gestures!

Now realize, there are cultural differences. Hitler’s speeches were choreographed 70 years ago in a different language. The Germans do prefer it a bit rougher. They like direct, perhaps even harsh terms, whereas Americans prefer the softer approach. Given the cultural differences, and the changes in modern speech, is it possible that President Elect Obama and the Führer had the same speech coach?

Do not judge until you have calmly and carefully watched the videos.

You here today…
Are only a part of what is spread all over Germany.
We want you, my German boys and girls…
To absorb all that we expect of Germany!
We want to be ONE people and you…
My youth, are to be that people.
In the future there must be NO RANKS OR CLASSES…
And you must not let them begin to grow in you…
We want to be one nation and you must educate yourselves…
We want this people to be obedient and you must practice this obedience…
We want this people to be PEACE-LOVING but also courageous!
www.evtv1.com...

We do not want to deceive the people….
Therefore I have refused to step in front just to make promises!
In ourselves alone lies the future of the German people…
If we guide the German people to their own diligence…
To their own decisions…
To their own steadfastness…
Then we will rise again…as did our fathers… who had to create Germany for themselves!
www.evtv1.com...

We don’t have their colonies…
We don’t have the opportunities of international world connections…
Possessed by these states or peoples…
Our Reich, which is so crammed…
And which has so few necessities for life…
Needs to be carefully and thoughtfully cultivated and managed…
We can’t do this without planning!
Dutchland! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!
www.jewtube.com...

That's stupid. What your saying is that anyone who is a good public speaker is only a good public speaker because they have Hitlers speech coach?? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?? It's called oratory and some just have the gift and others do not. Trying to connect people to Hitler just because they give a good political speech is brainless.




[edit on 11-11-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by hawkeye1717

That's stupid. What your saying is that anyone who is a good public speaker is only a good public speaker because they have Hitlers speech coach?? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?? It's called oratory and some just have the gift and others do not. Trying to connect people to Hitler just because they give a good political speech is brainless.

if he had one - he's probably dead

it's been a while

some people do have the gift - some people do not

I don't think the point was a connection to Hitler

maybe I'm wrong

Obama's not even that great a speaker. In my humble opinion, anyway. He just shines when you compare him to the bald, old men...which describes the bulk of American politicians. I personally think Reverend Wright is a much more phenomenal speaker than Obama.

IMO, Obama had only around 3 good speeches (obviously, the most famous ones). He had some witty lines in each of them, but, to me, he lacked passion. His expression never changes...he raises his voice a bit, but it seems too superficial. His other speeches comprise mostly of stuttering and repeating what he said in the 3 good speeches. His acceptance speech was a disappointment as well...I was expecting something historical, but all I got from him was some insincere gratitude, yes-we-can's and praise for his family.

Obama isn't comparable to Hitler. Hitler was passionate, more articulate (IMO), his gestures weren't stiff like Obama's are, and he used different gestures in different settings. Obama just bends over a bit and points left or right when he's making a strong point. All in all, Obama was hyped up after the 04 DNC speech and delivered only (at most) 2 more speeches that were reminiscent of it. He isn't a very good speaker when what he's saying is unscripted (Hitler was amazing at that), and he does stutter more than normal during interviews and such.
Check this: www.youtube.com...

To go back to an earlier point, Obama won because of the media. It's true. Think about it...right wing media (like Fox) were shunned as being biased, while liberal media (like Keith Olbermann) were accepted as the truth. This was because the right was seriously sloppy this election. They tried their best to make Obama look like a terrorist, and I don't know anyone dumb enough to believe something that extreme. They tried to pin all sorts of ridiculous things on Obama, and ultimately, that's what cost them the election. The majority of Obama voters got their information from liberal media...some didn't know who controlled congress for the last 2 years, most of them didn't know who that idiot Barney Frank was, or the backgrounds of Obama and Biden, what restribution of wealth meant, among other things.
www.howobamagotelected.com

I just hope a lot of Obama's policy plans are abandoned, and he fixes the country right. I'm not republican (although it does seem like it from this post lol), but liberal policies just will not work. I don't understand the logic behind liberals..."BUSH SPENT TOO MUCH ON IRAQ AND INCREASED THE DEFICIT! WE'RE GONNA STOP SPENDING IN THE MIDDLE EAST, GIVE IRAQ TO TERRORISTS AND IRAN, LET OUR OIL PRICES SKYROCKET, AND SPEND 10X MORE AT HOME! YEAH, THAT'LL BALANCE THE BUDGET!!"


I apologize to anyone who got offended by anything I said.

OMG is this serious? LOL is all I can say.

Originally posted by MOFreemason
reply to post by Holly N.R.A.

 

I just had to ask that in my previous post, because I always wondered can such a man come to power (Hitler)?

I have always wondered was it the mindset of the then-desperate German or the persuasive oratorical skills of Hitler that led to the Third Reich?

Same question applied to today's Americans...are we just needing/wanting a leader to inspire or is Obama just that good at speaking?

Now I could be wrong but Hitler was appointed Chansler was he not? Obama was elected president through our democratic process.

Originally posted by DarthChrisious
Oh, and just to add something else - Obama differs from Hitler's public speaking style in that whenever Hitler would take the stage, he would just stand quietly for 5-10 minutes...not saying anything. It increased the crowd's anticipation and made his message more effective.

So, that's where Michael Jackson gets it from.




[edit on 22-11-2008 by Amelie]

Originally posted by DarthChrisious

In America, if somebody tried to do that, we'd start throwing tomatoes at them.

Don't be so sure of that. Talking to someone who was at a nighttime speech of Hitler was quite enlightening. He said it was impossible to NOT be caught up in the whole spectacle and believe EVERYTHING that he said. The Nazi's and Hitler especially, were masters at manipulating the masses. You gotta admit they put on some pretty impressive spectacles.

Don't think something like that couldn't happen anywhere.

I bet the Germans thought the same thing.

The short answer to the question posed in this thread is no.

Michael Sheehan is Obama's speech coach and he wasn't even alive before 1955. Just because they are both great orators doesn't mean the same person coached them.