reply to post by wayno
Everyone who has ever lived has suffered the indignities of some buffoon at some point in their life; especially if you are different in some
discernible way from the "majority".
We've all been there. Trust me.
I understand that. So have I. We are in agreement here.
Having said that, defending one problem area does not negate the validity of others. For you gay issues are not a priority, and so be it. Stay
out of the fray. Its not your issue.
Here is where we differ, apparently in terms of long-range outlook.
It really is my issue whenever someone is undergoing discrimination, just as surely as it is my place to defend a woman I see being attacked (would
you ask me to stop that as well?). As I would hope it would be your issue whenever you saw a social injustice toward another. You see, I believe we
are, at our best, our brothers' keepers. It is not my place to tell you what you can do with your life, but it is my place to come to your rescue
when I see others doing so. Do you really believe the blacks who are now a major part of our society (including the Presidency) would have been able
to win their freedoms unless some in the majority stood up for them? They had no vote, they had no freedom, they had no power prior to the Civil War.
They needed help, and they got help, from those in the majority who stood up and declared "This is wrong".
For you, the rights of religious persons and of white persons is more the issue - then be clear about that. If your issues intersect with ours
at some point, like it probably does in prop 8, then you can't take both sides. You have a bias, and you need to be clear about that.
We all have our own biases, and I thought that would be self-explanatory. Forgive me if I overestimated others views on humanity. Allow me to correct
this error: My first and foremost duty is to myself and my family.
And the fact that I cannot take the side I wish to take, because of that duty we all have in common, is why I am so disgusted about this. I support
equality. I will always support equality. But if your equality begins to affect my equality, something is wrong. If my equality begins to affect your
equality, something is wrong. If A + B = C, A + B cannot be more
equal than C. It's not possible. That equations becomes an
Thus, if my fight adversely affects yours, then I need to re-examine my fight. If your fight adversely affects mine, you should re-evaluate your
fight. No war can be won when the soldiers fight themselves, and that includes the war on equality.
Not all persons who are gay on the otherhand have an automatic bias against your religion. You have irrationally come to think so. You are
You misunderstand me. I know there are those who are not anti-religion in this fight. You (based on the civility of your posts) are apparently one of
I do not state opposition because everyone
on your side is anti-religion, and please forgive me if I have made that impression. I state
opposition because too many
appear to be anti-religious, and too many appear to want to use any victory achieved to 'rub it in the nose of'
Christianity in particular and religious groups in general.
That is not a fight for equality. It is a fight for vengeance.
Not every every wrong of society can be fought by everyone at the same time.
But every successful fight has received the support of a large portion of the majority before it succeeded.
Just don't try and lump everything all together into one big mush of "woe is me" and "my problem is bigger than your problem", which is
what you are doing, cuz in that mess legitimate issues of the minority will always lose out to those of the majority.
But that is exactly my point, and exactly what your side is doing. Do you not see that? If you continue to fight based on your cause being the only
one that matters
you will continue to alienate those whom you must have in order to be victorious.
When it comes down to it, every civil rights victory that has occurred in this great country (and indeed world-wide) throughout history has had the
support of a majority of those who are vocal and active. This fight will be no different. This is the way it is going: Side A has a complaint, and
presses for a solution. Side B rejects them. Side A becomes more vocal. Side B passes laws against Side A. Side A circumvents those laws. Side B
passes a Constitutional amendment. Side B protests, and somehow circumvents that amendment. Side A then resorts to violence, with the full power and
support of the police. Side A is destroyed.
On the other hand, if you fight for actual equality, it will work like this: Side A has a complaint, and presses for a solution. Side B rejects the
solution. Side A becomes more vocal, and in the process recruits supporters from Side B
. Side B passes a law against Side A. Side A circumvents
the law. Side B passes a Constitutional amendment against Side A. Side A takes their complaint to the people and recruits more support from Side
. Side B begins to prosecute Side A. Side A, now larger than Side B
, passes their own Constitutional amendment and is victorious against
The difference is support. Those whom you protest with reflect on you and your cause. That is human nature, just as you judge the local department
store by its employees and their attitudes as opposed to that of the owners. If you gai support from the people for a just cause, you will win. If you
gather distrust from the people over an unjust attitude, you will lose, and you will lose miserably and violently.
I will leave you with something I happened to catch when I was trying not to watch the protests this weekend. The issue is equality, correct? Yet I
saw one woman at the protests waving a sign that said "Lesbian sex is fun".
It may be about equality for you. But how many people watching now think it is about fun sex? Why did no one at the protest inform her she was harming
Think about it. And remember to let me know when I can support equality with you again. I will do so.
edit to add: I just re-read this post, and perhaps my opinions have not changed so much... I want peace and equality, the same thing I have always
wanted. I just now believe this is not about such.
[edit on 17-11-2008 by TheRedneck]