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Beware of some "Alien Messages", Hell's Gates, and other "phenomena" in ATS.

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posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Though some points may be well said, don't forget that we're talking about things here we can not prove. Don't let pretty words stray you all from your senses. That's what the media is for.




posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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Well done.

I look forward to hearing more from you and agree with you about being wary.

I came here searching for a better understanding and I have mostly gleaned bits and pieces from threads here and there that I can incorporate but mostly some of the more interesting ideas from those claiming to "know" end up being either spiritually misleading, transparent frauds, or attention seekers out to tell a good scary yarn, not offer anything that can lead to truth. You can't warn someone about something they have no idea how to comprehend let alone have the information to handle and deal with appropriately.

I don't want to waste time even participating in that.

Some of the more promising interaction for me to learn from or at least know that there are others in the same situation has come from those reading threads and not posting them. They usually end up sending a U2U that can blow your mind but are understandably reluctant to add their valued information to the mess that ends up looking like another one of "those" threads.

I understand that most can disregard such things since it needs to be discovered by the soul that seeks the information. Which is why it can be wrapped in puzzles because when you discover it the pieces fit inside you. When you merely tell it to someone that hasn't started that same journey it can simply be tossed aside with a "nah, that's silly". It's just not for some of us to simply tell. If you do it had better be for some reason other than self adulation.

Either way...as usual...I'm here and am all ears...or eyes.
Flagged.

- Lee



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by citizenc
 



Oh if I didn't say so before in any clear way, please share your story.
I see there are good people here that really want to encourage you to do so.

Thanks!

- Lee



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
reply to post by citizenc
 


If you are going to proselytize Seth's teachings and not credit 'him', at least don't mangle the meaning while making it 'your own'.

TWISI


Ehm, just assume the seth material is true. If that is correct it is pretty much evident that more people come to the same conclusion on seperate accounts. If i say something is blue and another one sees the object and also says it is blue that other person is not plagiarizing anything.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 04:56 AM
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Before I get to the replies, there are a couple of things I would like to mention:

-The reason for the "Beware" of this thread is the following:

As said before, I joined ATS a couple of months ago, "directed" if I may, to help clarify some issues for other specific people, and for myself, to see directly what is going on in some forums such as this one.

At first, I was struck by the level of preparation and formed eloquence of some of the members. As time progressed, however, I began to feel the "pressure" of two currents here: those who will believe NOTHING, and defend that quite vehemently, and those who will SEEMINGLY believe ANYTHING, and what that can imply.

Basically, I started to get the feel of the "mental environment" to which you can be exposed here, and it started to feel "oppressing".

Generally, there are numerous outlandish claims, being energized without verification by many, which are in turn attacked without mercy and even education sometimes, by other factions that (personal opinion) seem just as uninformed, and lack the basic curiosity to find out things that are, as seen by some like me, perfectly within reach of the willing.

Due to personal matters, as well as the general "non-positive, non-conducive-to-anything-productive" air that was coming at me from my presence at ATS, I took a break.

I wondered how and WHY to come back, and this thread is the result.

-Taking from what I said above, it seems that most anybody that wants to share, or feels compelled to come forward with an experience of the "yet-unexplainable" category, is almost REQUIRED that this be as dramatic, full of details and sensationalism as possible.

Otherwise, some PERFECTLY excellent threads, started and carried with dignity and great eloquence by some extraordinarily well-prepared people, fall into oblivion and are ignored by the very people that these threads COULD help, because of the "lack" of knack or good thematic punch.

To all those people: I will share some of my experiences, but I will not indulge into fireworks or self-serving antics.

It would be ridiculous for anybody to take that seriously some ATS points, or to defend the integrity of your avatar, at the expense of the dignity of the you that sits in front of that screen.

With this said, I will come forward, as I always think of myself, not as a spiritual teacher, but as a spiritual STUDENT, one like some of you, like many, who has however intently been working, searching and finding for most of my time; one who has been "paying attention" to some of the lessons available, and wishes to share some results just because I happen to know it is a good idea.

Afterward, each one draws what then can or want, and life goes on.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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Response to STM:

Thanks for you input and support. Following your advice, I slightly modified the title, and decided that I will share my experiences in a new thread, to let this one be about what it is: a warning bell to provoke a reaction on some people, so that they can inform themselves better, to know that if you search, you can find.

Hope to get your impressions there, and as soon as I can, I will get to your thread, and I thank you for sharing that with us.

I have at this point chosen what I will share hoping to further evoke who wants to to search and find for themselves, as it should be.

To Travelerinthedark:

Just quoted you to expand on your good point. Hope you don't mind.

To Undo:

Computers are an example up to a point. There is a level of interaction with the "environments" that would mesh programmer and program in ways that would make the analogy have to be expanded.

Without using concrete examples as of yet, a neural web would begin to be more like it, one where "computers", "programmers" and "environment" are entangled, and feedback is both automatic and simultaneous.

When I share my experience on alternate or parallel realities, I hope to further make the point, one which is of course extremely hard to make because we are talking here about concepts that are difficult to visualize and put into words.

To drock905:

I respond to you and others who might think of it as you stated: My self-righteousness.

As far as I can read, I have always stated that I would like to share MY experiences, so others can draw their own conclusions.

The point of sharing my EXPERIENCES is that they are more than opinions, I have worked hard and studied more to get to them.

My point in this thread is that, people that do not seek and try out experience for themselves, are easy prey to reactive, sensationalistic, extreme infotainment of the sort.

If you read anything more beyond my personal comfort with what I know and who I am, then that is all you, and nothing I have said or feel.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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Well I read your first post and I thought it was a little conderscending, I know what you are trying to say believe me I know. But the truth is do we really know and understand whats going on? are we really in the know? or are we making assumption on what we have experienced?

I believe in sharing experiences and understandings with others but no matter how hard you try and tell someone about the real aspects of life they will not listen until THEY are ready to listen and take part in their own experience.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
reply to post by citizenc
 


So you know yourself eh…… ? How well I wonder.

There are plenty of people who have an experience of this. I know there are groups who practice with the experience of this as their goal. A truth that can never be explained.

Forgive me, though so far I see this as just another new age type thing that is misleading, perhaps no human really knows the truth. Why would you be so different to these other “ignorant” groups that you speak of?

Again forgive me if I seem a bit harsh, but much of what you have said sounds very familiar and I have heard it before, and in my own way have found it to be nonsense. Which doesn't necessarily mean it has to be wrong...Though I am more interested to hear of your interpretation of the alien thing and I will read with as much interest and as open a mind as is possible for a poor ignorant.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]


Thank you for your input, an I hope you don't mind me quoting some of the passages, so that I can respond.

First, there is and enormous difference between "being in ignorance" and being ignorant, as you and others have said that I imply. That connotation is YOUR interpretation, and as far as I am concerned, only semantics twisted to put concepts in my "words" that I have not used.

Lack of information and personal experience is just that, and a situation that can be easily resolved with a little effort and willingness.
It is never, ever meant to be a insult or a qualification, at leas from me.

As far as learning goes, Yes! you probably have heard some of this before, and hopefully you will even more, and not from me.

It will mean that more and more people are willing to look into themselves and their realities, not on wishful thinking or on the words of others, but based on their own experiences, with the help of others, are there is nothing wrong with that.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 05:40 AM
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people are ready to condemn someone straight away here.....a lot of people come to this site with their hopes up looking for a possible answer/solution to their problem but more than often go away disappointed.... I read posts here all the time and think there is a lot of crap here but there are honest people that need to explain things in such a way that the reader will automatically say "Crap".......I can imagine how hard it is to explain something to someone who has no idea or who at the start is not willing to listen...I am listening but am swaying on the fence.....

1 question....we are all connected in some way but are overpowered by technology/media and the rest of it which makes us a little stoopid sometimes.....can we let go of these thoughts and live in a society where we can be accepted for our beliefs or do we have to live it alone....I'd hate to choose..



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 05:55 AM
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Reply to GreyFoxSolid:

Don' see what you mean, so please illustrate, and I ask for the sakes of being clear.

A personal knowledge of reality does not lead to be able to "prove" anything, just to share pathways, impressions, and information.

I have produced physical effects based on some of my knowledge, yet even this is something that is still far from being "proof" for those who WILL see things differently.

Notice that I continuously use the word "experience", because this, as of now, is the goal.


Reply to TheWayISeeIt:

Very Important:

I feel honored that you would consider me a "mangler" of Seth's teachings.

I will then, say it loud and clear: I have studied Seth's teachings, and found them to be a credible, excellent source of information and inspiration, and would recommend
his books to ANYBODY wholeheartedly.

One clarification, my path began a long time ago, and Seth's teachings are a PART of my experiences and of what I have seen and lived, and most of what I learned in Seth's teachings was put into perspective in that path that had already been long established.

Some of his information I only found useful thanks to my preparation in other fields, such as physics and psychology.

After that, and this I clearly remember, Seth himself said it in the book I read and treasure, to not believe a word he said, but to VERIFY them.

This I have done, and continue to do, for as you know, nobody and NOTHING is a finished product.

Again, to hear that some of MY WORDS sound like his, to me it means that the student did not fall that far away from one of his teachers, and that is only good in my book.

If you have any input and impressions on my experiences, please let me know, I will be glad to hear from you.

Reply to cbass:

Nothing earth-shattering, and no artificial anticipation.

I went to sleep, and come to see that I am taking the usual ATS battering, and I have not even begun to share my experiences! I can only imagine what's coming...

I started this thread yesterday, and, as I told STM, I decided to follow his/her advice, and I will start a separate thread titled somewhat like My experiences in My Consciousness, or something similar.

No rush, but no slowing down either. Just going with the flow of this discussion right now.

There are also "outside" time limits that have to be taken into consideration... I do enjoy very much to eat, for example, and do it many times a day... I also do get out to do some biking and enjoy nature... part of any good day...



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by WISHADOW
I just missed out on the messages, gates, and phenomena. Are you talking about acting out multiple personalities? . . . because you cannot just claim yourself to this dimension without leaving it. Obviously you must of been visiting these other places. Maybe you have been experimenting with mind altering substances. That just might of threw off your balance and opened up new experiences. Yet you can also go to say that other people like living the same lifestyle. Other people are on the same path.


OK: No on the substances. I only drink some alcohol every now and then, and indulge in a cigarette sporadically, although I can feel and "track" the effects of substances I take, so I can "control" these things , and there is no "addiction" or unwanted side-effects involved.

As for the "other" dimensional travel, yes I do it often and most times lucidly and willingly, but, then again, this is something that MOST people do, at sleep and awake.

The difference is that you do not notice the times that you are "out", what it feels like, and how to replicate it deliberately.

Most of this is just a matter of fine-tuning perception, and this, I repeat, is something that WE ALL ARE. It is everybody's possibility and ability.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Pardon me, but Seth who? I'd love to read the works of such an esteemed individual. Thank you.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by citizenc
 


Didn't you get the memo? SUPERMODERATOR says no one can say what reality is while at the same time saying to deny ignorance. Now, ignorance is the lack of knowledge. We are all ignorant in different ways. But if reality is only what you see it as, I'll say it right now, you're insane.

If I were to go up to SUPERMODERATOR and poke him or her with a needle, I'm sure that would hurt. And you know, when you cry, get mad, those emotions and all of our emotions are just one more sign of reality. If there was no absolute reality, then you can't say deny ignorance when accepting such a flawed logic as there is no true reality. So, SUPERMODERATOR has made a contradiction and has imposed his/her own spiritual beliefs and at the same time, bullying every one, while saying that we cannot do the same that he/she is doing. So that's a contradiction and hypocrisy.

If you're going to deny ignorance, you can't say no one can say what reality is. Cause if you go by that logic, you really can't say what's real or what's not. Seeking the truth doesn't mean you become a nutcase and enter your own world like some fruit cake.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by citizenc

I repeat: ALL OF THESE ARE YOU, and the only thing that keeps you from communicating with Yourself, of KNOWING Yourself, is your lack of belief or knowledge of the fact that you CAN do it.

These are FACTS that can be easily experienced and ascertained, tried and VERIFIED by ANYBODY, for I am talking about the basics of Human Nature.
This is your birthright, your own Self to know and "develop".


I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying. Do you mean you can access yourself in parallel lives, different times in history etc? What is it you mean when you talk about communicating with Yourself?

Is there any way you could be more specific about the mechanics here? How exactly can I easily experience and verify what you are saying? You mentioned meditation in another post. Is that all I need to do or is there more?

Can you provide a quick checklist of the necessary steps?

I'm admittedly ignorant about these things so any tips you can give would be appreciated.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by MarrsAttax

Originally posted by citizenc

I repeat: ALL OF THESE ARE YOU, and the only thing that keeps you from communicating with Yourself, of KNOWING Yourself, is your lack of belief or knowledge of the fact that you CAN do it.

These are FACTS that can be easily experienced and ascertained, tried and VERIFIED by ANYBODY, for I am talking about the basics of Human Nature.
This is your birthright, your own Self to know and "develop".


I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying. Do you mean you can access yourself in parallel lives, different times in history etc? What is it you mean when you talk about communicating with Yourself?

Is there any way you could be more specific about the mechanics here? How exactly can I easily experience and verify what you are saying? You mentioned meditation in another post. Is that all I need to do or is there more?

Can you provide a quick checklist of the necessary steps?

I'm admittedly ignorant about these things so any tips you can give would be appreciated.


The answer to your questions is yes.

Meditation is practically the first step.

Let's use another analogy:

If you want to practice a sport like say, football (european, soccer in America), the first requisite is that you be able to run around to chase the ball or the person that has it. To run, as a basic.

Afterward, you learn to handle the ball, to do some juggling with it by yourself, try some shots, etc., thus developing acquaintance with ball handling AND muscle development and specialization so that you become increasingly more comfortable, develop more your skills, muscle tone, stamina, etc.

On a parallel level, or after self-training, according to your coach, you may begin to play or train in team exercises, team movements, stratagems, etc.

Either all of this or: grabbing a ball, going with some friends somewhere and kick ball for a while.

The same basics must be applied into getting to know yourself, your inner qualities, and the characteristics of this and other environments within our reach.

The basic "mind-training" of meditation, neutral meditation, is to develop as a SKILL your ability to maintain steady focus and concentration, and WITH this skill, being able to handle certain "tasks", which is where it begins to get increasingly necessary to be able to discriminate between minute differences of appreciation, focus, mind shifts, etc.

So in essence, meditation can be likened to physical training: it is not the sport, but without it it is hard to get very far or good results.

Since my aim in this thread is only to provoke people into realizing that there is more that can be done to prepare oneself before throwing out all sorts of alarms, or participating on them, I would invite you then to participate on the other one I will start, where I will mention some of the techniques I learned and some I knew inherently, and maybe there we can get into more depth, without writing the book.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by citizenc
reply to post by citizenc
 





Thank you for your input, an I hope you don't mind me quoting some of the passages, so that I can respond.

First, there is and enormous difference between "being in ignorance" and being ignorant, as you and others have said that I imply. That connotation is YOUR interpretation, and as far as I am concerned, only semantics twisted to put concepts in my "words" that I have not used.

Lack of information and personal experience is just that, and a situation that can be easily resolved with a little effort and willingness.
It is never, ever meant to be a insult or a qualification, at leas from me.

As far as learning goes, Yes! you probably have heard some of this before, and hopefully you will even more, and not from me.

It will mean that more and more people are willing to look into themselves and their realities, not on wishful thinking or on the words of others, but based on their own experiences, with the help of others, are there is nothing wrong with that.





I don't mind at all.

I use the term “ignorant”, as far as I can see, in the right context. If we are ignorant of something, it means we don’t know. To realise this is not a bad thing, this realization of ignorance about something is the beginning of knowledge. This is something very true that I have said, the negative connotations like arrogance and rudeness that can go with this are not intended. Perhaps the more we learn, the more there is to learn. If I do not know your version of the truth, I am ignorant of it. It won't hurt my feelings.

It is obviously true that the implication is there that the groups and people you originally mentioned were, or are, quite ignorant also. At least of the truth as you see it. This seems simple enough.

As ignorant as I may be in many ways I do have enough information and experience, to satisfy myself at least, that many of the concepts that you have only briefly espoused are either truths mixed with misleading partial truths, or mistaken. As in based on a false premise to begin with, or wrong. They are in some ways at odds with what I have found. Very new age. This happens. Still other concepts I have little direct experience of. I have never sat down and conversed with an alien being to ask them who they are, where they come from, and why are they here for instance. I have no direct physical experiential knowledge this way that they even exist. So because of this, and also because of the possibility that I may have so far misunderstood you, or that I am wrong, I will pay you the courtesy of listening to what you have to say. For now at least.

I have heard that when the Buddha was asked for the truth, he turned his back and walked away. This may just be fable though……Not sure why someone would claim to be the bearer of the true nature of reality in such a sensational way as you have. Could be many things, for now I will listen.


[edit on 12-11-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by citizenc
The point of sharing my EXPERIENCES is that they are more than opinions, I have worked hard and studied more to get to them.


Then perhaps you should share your experiences rather than pointing at others.

You asked if I mind you quoting me, which I certainly don't. What I do mind is you taking that quote to smooth your own ego by telling me if I only "cared" more or "learned" more that I would realize how "good" a point I made.

You addressed me, not my issues.

To further the point, you completely ignored my questions in my second post, questions dealing with being arrogant and presumptuous.

Regardless, you come across as another promoter of censorship, which was my original point. Suppression, no matter how well intended, is bondage. You can't quell fear by suppressing ideas.

Has it occurred to you that alien messages and Hell's Gate stories are a symptom of the problem rather than the problem itself? Perhaps there's a reason people are so apt to fall into fearful ideas. I believe it is at least close to the same reason why people so easily fall in line behind "leaders".

Another "Buddha" story, because I see it as pertinent...

Crossing a bridge, a student asked his teacher, "What is the Buddha's nature?". The teacher turned around, picked him up and threw him into the water.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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In my experience, the more a man knows,
the less likely he is to broadcast his knowledge unasked, and
the less likely he his to claim superiority over his listeners.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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Reply to Cogito, ErgoSum:

Thank you, hope we get the chance to confront some more ideas, and see where we can get with them.

Reply to TravelerInthedark:

Don't remember ever spousing censorship, or deciding for others what should be said or not. I am speaking about BALANCE, a whole other issue.

As I have said before, it's hard not to sound condescending when speaking about "music" with non musicians, but then again, feeding the great ego of my little feline face, I feel I must go on helping and sharing with others that BEFORE this thread had already asked for some of my impressions.

Repeat: how ridiculous can it be to think that I take my time to feed my "ego", when all I get are some ATS points, credited to my cheetah avatar?
Please revise.

Think about the reasons of WHY I take the time, as do many others that I myself criticize, and we can get closer to a point.

To Kailassa:

Same thing, joining a conversation already under way, but still, no harm done.

I know what I am doing and where my heart is. Enough for me, and many others, whether you trust this statement or not.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by citizenc
As I have said before, it's hard not to sound condescending when speaking about "music" with non musicians


Unless you can communicate on a common level. Say from the perspective of a music lover rather than a technician? That usually works for me since I can't read the notes, but I know what sounds good.

Sincerely, I wish you the best on your quest.






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