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The Allagash Incident

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Topic started on 10-11-2008 @ 10:09 PM by ashamedamerican

In 1976 four art students from Massachusetts had a UFO encounter on the Allagash Wilderness Waterway in northern Maine. Years later hypnosis revealed their nightmares to be more than repressed memories and missing time.

Jack and Jim Weiner, Chuck Rak and Charlie Foltz

On August 20, 1976 four students from The Massachusetts College of Art set out on a camping trip along the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, a 92 mile corridor of lakes and rivers in northern Maine. On the second night identical twins Jack and Jim Weiner, along with their friends Chuck Rak and Charlie Foltz witnessed a large glowing orb changing colors and hovering over the treetops near their camping site.

On August 26, while camping on the shores of Eagle Lake the four men decided to go night fishing and built a large bonfire to use as a makeshift lighthouse to find their way back to shore. While fishing Chuck Rak had the feeling that he was being obvserved, and when he looked over his shoulder he saw the same orb a couple of hundred yards away ascending out of the trees. The orb was estimated to be about 80 feet in diameter and slowly moved across the treetops along the bank of the lake. Upon Chuch Rak alerting his friends to what he had seen, Charlie Foltz used a flashlight to send an S.O.S. signal towards the orb, it instantly sent back a beam of light that surrounded their canoe and the orb rapidly closed in on their location.

Their fascination quickly turned into panic and they began frantically paddling towards the bonfire on shore. The next thing they remember is standing on shore and watching the object hovering 20 or 30 feet above the surface of the lake. Charlie Foltz pointed his flashlight at the object again and it shot off into the sky.
The large bonfire they had built was now a pile of embers, and to them only about 20 or 30 minutes had passed.
The men were exhausted and went to sleep without talking about the incident.

A few years later, Jim Weiner suffered a head injury that caused tempero-limbic epilepsy, his doctor asked him to report any unusual experiences, and upon telling them about some of the strange experiences he and his friends had endured, and the nightmares that followed the doctor advised him to contact a UFO researcher. His brother Jack admitted to having nightmares similar to his own. Jim Weiner contacted Raymond Fowler at a UFO lecture near boston seeking his help.

In In January of 1989, Raymond Fowler referred Jim to a professional hypnotist named Anthony Constantino. Under hypnosis all four men confirmed each other's repressed memories of being abducted and taken aboard the craft, where they were examined and samples of their bodily fluids were taken.

Their story has been told on the television shows "UFO Files" on the history channel and "Unsolved Mysteries"
The Allagash Abductions

Tinwiki.org The Allagash Incident

[edit on 11-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]

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[edit on 12-11-2008 by NGC2736]

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reply posted on 11-11-2008 @ 01:39 AM by Unlimitedpossibilities

reply to post by ashamedamerican

Hello ashamedamerican! Nice article. I just remembered seeing that on the history channel years ago. It creeped me out.

BTW: Hope you do not mind. I saw you wrote "A few yeard later" and I corrected it to "A few years later," with the extra comma since its an opening.

ttyl

reply posted on 11-11-2008 @ 09:41 AM by ashamedamerican

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

Of course I don't mind.

And thank you for doing that.
I try to proof read everything I post but sometimes mistakes slip through.

I agree, very creepy story...
I used to camp near there and have had some odd experiences to say the least, which is why it creeps me out so much personally.

reply posted on 11-11-2008 @ 02:57 PM by Majorion

reply to post by ashamedamerican

Fascinating story ashamedamerican

I believe that these guys really did see a glowing orb of some sort, especially when one of them signals with his flashlight and the object responds, I've had a similar experience to that.

But I'm not sure that I believe the part involving regression and hypnosis. I have a hard time believing abductions and physical interactions.

I used to camp near there and have had some odd experiences to say the least, which is why it creeps me out so much personally.

Could you tell us about any paranormal experiences that you may have had while camping near there?

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reply posted on 11-11-2008 @ 04:16 PM by ashamedamerican

Originally posted by Majorion
Could you tell us about any paranormal experiences that you may have had while camping near there?

I explained probably the strangest one here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Near the bottom of the page.

The whole triangular area between Eagle Lake, Moosehead Lake, and Baxter State Park has had alot of odd reports that I'v seen over the years.
It makes me wonder if Loring AFB (one of the largest ICBM facilities in the northeast, or so I have read) has anything to do with it.
Loring is more northeast than the rest of these areas (near Limestone Maine) but I suppose it's possible, from what I'v read military bases and surrounding areas in remote parts of states seem to be hot spots for some reason.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 03:56 AM by Majorion

reply to post by ashamedamerican

I just read your story in the other thread, I find it very interesting.

Did your nose bleeds start directly after the incident, or did they start happening years later?

As I said earlier, I'm not one of those people who buy into abductions and stuff, I always feel like there is a better explanation. You say that there was missing time.. how old were you at the time of the incident? and is it possible that you may have mistook a "state of shock" from the encounter for "missing time"?

[edit on 12/11/08 by Majorion]

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 07:42 AM by franspeakfree

Excellent post OP well done, I had never heard of this incident before, very interesting indeed. I would like to hear more on the abduction side as I do not believe that all EBENS have cruel intentions.

On a conscious level it must one of the most terrifying experiences one can imagine but I believe under regression the subconscious will provide the answers every abductee seeks, why me?

I also believe abductees are abducted for a specific reason, however on a conscious level I realise that is impossible for many to comprehend that the abductee could have asked to be abducted.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 10:53 AM by NephraTari

intereesting story, was the hypnosis session recorded?

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 11:15 AM by NGC2736

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Reading the article you linked I found this part interesting on several levels:

This experience left physical evidence behind in the form of burns on the bottom of Jack's feet. Jack also received a biopsy-like scoop mark above his ankle during another abduction. The scoop mark was located just above a scar left behind during an operation for an anomalous lump that had appeared overnight on Jack's leg several years prior. Jack's local doctor thought it was a cyst, but was unable to drain it so referred Jack to a surgeon who removed it. Jack was told that local pathologists did not know what it was and that it had been sent to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, for further analysis. However, when we checked Jack's medical records, we found that it was sent to military pathologists in Washington, D.C., where it was examined by a United States Air Force Colonel. Attempts for further information about the anomalous lump were thwarted as the surgeon would not cooperate with our enquiry.

Source

It would seem from this statement, that there could be more to the idea of military involvement than meets the eye. Provided it is true, of course.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 12:51 PM by Majorion

Originally posted by NGC2736
there could be more to the idea of military involvement than meets the eye. Provided it is true, of course.

Are you suggesting that the military could be responsible for these abductions? or are you suggesting that the military are simply covering up this incident?

I'd like to know which one you mean NGC2736

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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:35 PM by ashamedamerican

My nosebleeds started shortly after the incident, continued for years after, and stopped abruptly.
I was pretty young at the time, about 5 years old maybe 6. Although I remember details about that day more vividly than I can recall things from 5 years ago.
It's possible that I could have simply been in shock but I have also had more missing time since then, along with the same lightheaded feeling, and in situations where shock wouldn't make sense at all.

I'll be happy to answer any other questions you have, but I would prefer that you ask them in U2U simply because I'd like to keep this thread about the Allagash Incident and not my own experiences.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:40 PM by NGC2736

reply to post by Majorion

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I suppose it's more of a "take your pick" thing. Could this be some black ops thing? Sure. Could it be collusion between the operators of such a craft and the military? Yes again. Could it just be trash canning because that's the military way? Once more it seems affirmative. There's no way to know, but it is a point I found interesting.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:41 PM by ashamedamerican

Originally posted by NephraTari
intereesting story, was the hypnosis session recorded?

Yes all four of the men's sessions were, and I have heard pieces of the recordings. I can tell you that they are creepy, make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, and sound like something straight out of the twilight zone.

Very small portions of the recordings were played during either the history channel or unsolved mysteries stories about the incident. There are larger pieces of the recordings on the internet somewhere, I'll try to find the link to them for you.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:44 PM by kidflash2008

reply to post by ashamedamerican

This is one of the better abduction cases. There is some physical evidence (the marks on the individual) and the number of people there. In the History Channel, one of the individuals did not think they were abducted, but that it was a dream. The others weren't so sure about it. This case is more honest, as many others don't even want to speculate that they dreamed the whole thing up.

Thank you for posting this.

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:48 PM by NGC2736

reply to post by kidflash2008

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The idea of four people having the same dream, during the same time frame, opens up another whole can of worms. On the surface, such an idea would seem directed by someone or something. It's not logical for multiple people to all have such an outlandish dream in concert, IMO.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by NGC2736]

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 01:55 PM by kidflash2008

reply to post by NGC2736

I think the person wants it to be a dream. The other answer is that he was abducted against his will. I don't think he was ready to accept that as an answer. I believe there is strong evidence to suggest an abduction as most dreams do not leave scars of other physical traces.

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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 02:07 PM by ziggystar60

Thanks for sharing this story, yet another one I was not aware of.

I found a YouTube video in two parts about the incident.

Part 1:

YouTube Link

Part 2:

YouTube Link

reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 02:12 PM by ashamedamerican

I can't remember which one of the four it was, but I think it was one of the twins (Jack or Jim Weiner) who reported that he and his wife have been abducted together also. If my memory serves me correctly this was long after the Allagash Incident, but before the hypnosis sessions.

And I agree 110% with your statement NGC2736, to suggest that all four men had the same dream or hallucination, on it's face value would seem to be just as, if not more amazing situation than the abductions.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the men thought at first that these were dreams, and probably wish they were nothing but dreams, these don't seem like people who are looking for attention to me. If that were the case than why wait until years later to reveal their story.
Also as kidflash2008 pointed out dreams don't leave scars of other physical traces, such as lumps, burns, scars etc.
And if the lump was simply a cyst than why would a military pathologists refuse to cooperate with investigators?

reply posted on 14-11-2008 @ 04:54 PM by Unlimitedpossibilities

After watching those videos from "Unsolved Mysteries", it seems as though movies themselves, possibly have another purpose. That purpose being, conversely related to what Dr. William Cohn said, is that the movies are there to trivialize possible real abductions. Critics about abductions may just attribute the abductions to the movies plot, seeing the person as "crazy". So, the media is causing us to "pre-debunk" these cases, in a sense, before we even here about them. Hence, predispositions towards abduction cases.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

reply posted on 14-11-2008 @ 05:03 PM by Unlimitedpossibilities

Furthermore, what I find strange is that the abductees, such as Jim Weiner, did not attack or try and fight off the abductors, but somehow they felt compelled to just accept it and watch the others get "violated". Mysterious.

Maybe they are in a state of half asleep/ half conscious? Or some type of injection/drug?