Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

Originally posted by Jomina
Precicely. People try to claim that Jesus changed things, but if you read what He had to say, he said he did not come to break the law, but to fulfil it. He never condemned the actions that he saw in the scriptures, he said that the scriptures can never be broken.

That includes all the genocidal insanity that had been committed, animal sacrifices, HUMAN sacrifices, and all the other craziness that goes with it all.

It's just plain nuts, man

False. Jesus didn't come to change things because he came to show people they were the authority. In order for him to come to change the law would have meant he would have had to take a spot as king of the jews, which he rejected and was killed for.

He fulfilled "gods law" by clarifying the misconceptions the people had before him.

He frequently dismissed the laws and traditions that men of authority had done in the name of god, calling them serpents.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by paxnatus
what I am saying is the scripture that is being asked about was taken out of context. The OP did not take time to read the scriptures before or after the verse in question which changed the meaning of the scripture.

I very much doubt that this is the first time that the OP has read it, also I imagine since he read it, he has read up to it aswell. The chances of him just opening the book and picking a random piece of scripture mid-chapter.

God's Word is the Truth. I didn't say so He did.

No, the bible said that, not God. They are not the same thing, unless of course you can't distinguish between doctrine from deity - in which case you should seek psychological help

Lord Jesus Christ

Hate to be a grammar Nazi but that's actually 'Christ Jesus' not the other way around.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

Bait eh? Well all I can say is that I made that decision, several times, I was like you once, but not anymore.

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

People pick random scriptures daily most people pick a scripture and study it.

I am not going to debate someone on my beliefs. I know the bible is a doctrine, duh which is ALSO Gods Word. And I know God's word is truth.

Why don't you share who 'Christ ' Jesus is in your life since so far the most you have had to add is say 'Holy Hell' and tell me I need psychological help
because you were ignorant to what was being said.

Originally posted by paxnatus
No it's not. what I am saying is the scripture that is being asked about was taken out of context. The OP did not take time to read the scriptures before or after the verse in question which changed the meaning of the scripture.

God's Word is the Truth. I didn't say so He did. Ask anyone who knows Christ, not only in an intellectual way but knows Him in their heart. They will tell you the Holy Spirit is the truth and must be present for you to have a personal relationship with God the father.

It does not matter to me if you believe me or not. I know the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and you cannot know Him without the Holy Spirit to reveal to you who God is. He has left his word to reveal to everyone on earth the Truth. Some will receive it, others will not.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

The holy spirit is truth. And you can not understand the bible until you understand the truth. I read it many times and was completely against it until I understood the truth. Now I can read and understand a large amount of it.

The bible even says that even if you do not follow Jesus directly, that god will send the holy spirit to you and reveal the truth to you(John 14).

The is also expressed in that you can sin against Jesus and be forgiven. But you can not sin against the holy spirit/truth(knowingly) and be forgiven.

I seen someone ask about the gospels around the world thing, that means the truth will be spread around the world.

Originally posted by paxnatus
People pick random scriptures daily most people pick a scripture and study it.

So does that mean that they are all taking those scripture out of context like you are assuming the OP is? So what standard is that? People talk about scripture and if you don't agree with them, they are automatically taking it out of scripture, because as our friend has pointed out, there is no context to take it out of.

I am not going to debate someone on my beliefs.

That makes two of us.

I know the bible is a doctrine, duh which is ALSO Gods Word. And I know God's word is truth.

How? Because the bible says so? Well that's not God, that's a book, they are not the same thing, again, unless you are confusing doctrine with deity.

What you have is a belief, a "faith" which is not backed by evidence.

Why don't you share who 'Christ ' Jesus is in your life since so far the most you have had to add is say 'Holy Hell' and tell me I need psychological help
because you were ignorant to what was being said.

I'm not ignorant of what's been said, I've been following this thread since it started. Why don't you go to my other thread if you want to know my views.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by The Stand
Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

It is a way to increase your own "race."

You kill off all the men, and male children. You kill off all the non-virgin women because they might be early with child and you dont want any of their babies to use your resources, and you take their virgin girls and make them "your" women to have more of your babies.

It wasnt just the Jews who engaged in this sort of behavior. It was a fairly common strategy to take over an area. Then every single inhabitant was tied to you and your people by blood and it reduced the probability that several years in the future they may group up and turn on you.

It has nothing to do with God though. Like many have said, the Bible was written down by humans and even if parts of it were truly Divinely inspired, many many things have been added by people serving their own, not Gods, interests.

God told Moses to send in the troops to "Go to war" and slaughter these people, now Balaam had the children of Israel to sin a great sin, and caused God to send a plague among his people, the Isrealites, the sin was sexual in nature, so when these "little boys" came as spoil, they were slain, and also the woman that were not virgins, as they had known sexual IMMORALITY, and God was not going to allow Sexual immorality into his Nation, as the Jews were meant to be a light to point other Nations to God, Israel was God's Holy people, and wanted their Nation to be the example to all the Earth. So God had to erradicate these boys & woman, so that the Jews would not learn their ways.

well.. first off, start by reading the ENTIRE text starting at Genesis. When you get the the part where it says..

The Nephilim
.. read it again ....LIKE HERE

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.
Gen 6:3 And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it grieves me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.

The Nephilim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,start there and do a search on it.. it explains it all ..

but.. then again .. you'll have to believe what your reading .. so .. yea.. there ya go ..

DON'T just GRAB random parts of the bible and speculate on it . it's like walking into a middle of a conversation without know that the parties are talking about..

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I've noticed that it's more that they purposely keep people ignorant of the actual meanings. That is atleast what I see in modern religion.

When moses comes down and is mad at the people worshiping the bull. I kept hearing this was because of the ages(Taurus the bull), and Moses represented the ram(Aries), and Jesus represents(Pisces). So he was said to be angry because of the new age. And I've seen people say that christians are going to be killed off in the new age(Aquarius the water bearer).

While the ages part I do think is true, as the stars are a calendar which can not be manipulated/changed and is a good measure of time. But the part about being angry about the bull is actually I think talking about the fact they were worshiping the idol from the area, rather than the actual teachings.

So the leaders use the symbolism and do things in the name of the symbolism, the people think it's good and they follow whatever the leader says. And it's done in everything really, not just religion. People are blinded by symbols and imagery and the truth is hidden in plain view with it.

reply to post by Komodo
Are you talking about what you just did, put out a couple of verses and think everybody understands. If you are talking to me, all I did was ask what this verse means, if answering the question makes you angry hulk then you got bigger problems.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by The Stand]

Originally posted by badmedia
I think talking about the fact they were worshiping the idol from the area, rather than the actual teachings.

I disagree. You can't worship teachings. Worship is about adoring figures. So when the age changed, Moses was angry that people were remaining outdated for what ever reason.

reply to post by Komodo


The nephilum is very interesting. It also says they are still here on earth. It's also pretty strange that alot of things that talk about these things is not very easy to find in terms of what is really taught.

My theory - and it is just a theory.

So when an angel loses it's wings, it loses it's technology. And that grounds it to the planet. This planet has been under quarantine, removed from the garden(the universe, to protect the rest of life out there) while man learns good from evil(by experiencing evil, just as you understand hot and cold by experiencing both).

All the while, these watchers are trying to move technology forward, particularly in terms of military behind the scenes. They hope to eventually regain their technology and escape. At which point, they will have to war with those who keep it quarantined(Armageddon).

When people say demons feed off fear in people, I don't see a little demon sucking it out of my body. I see it as meaning doing evil things because of the fear(AKA war, judge people, cause conflict) to serve their purposes. Why do it yourself when a man in fear will beat you down to do it for you?

Strangely enough, I recently see people who often talk about how the people here are the good guys, and the others as being the bad guys.

Just a theory that would kind of make sense to me as far as purpose for it all. Hard to tell as we only experience it from the earth/out of the loop point of view. This is a topic I'm very interested in, so I'd like to hear other peoples theories on it.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I disagree. You can't worship teachings. Worship is about adoring figures. So when the age changed, Moses was angry that people were remaining outdated for what ever reason.

Sure you can. You have to understand it and follow the teachings. What better way of showing appreciating of teachings than to understand and follow them?

I'll bet you money the people who understood and followed the teachings weren't sitting around worshiping the symbol of the bull. Why not? Because they actually understood the teachings of the time, rather than worshiping a false idol and being ignorant to the teachings.

reply to post by The Stand

the BIBLE.....we should never forget that all is written down in there is even written down by humans.... humans living in DUALISM as we all live in DUALISM from the beginning of all being ....and so even the bible is written down by people with a lot of fears and imaginations and how often is the bible translated from ancient languages ?.....and even Jesus was talking in "rattles" everyone by itsself should""read "out of his words what is the most important to know and to grow in mind with this words or better we should all take a deeper look within ourselves ....there is pure unconditional LOVE the real truth ....AMEN ;D

God of the Old Testament was forming, shaping and leading His people into righteousness. Because the enemy women spread a "plague" among the jews (probably a venereal disease), they had to be eliminated, same with he boys. This was defense of the health of Moses people. It was war. It was also a lesson to the jews to keep their relations within their own group.

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
God of the Old Testament was forming, shaping and leading His people into righteousness. Because the enemy women spread a "plague" among the jews (probably a venereal disease), they had to be eliminated, same with he boys. This was defense of the health of Moses people. It was war. It was also a lesson to the jews to keep their relations within their own group.

So you're justifying their actions, then? You agree that they did well and good?

Be careful, by agreeing that you are, you are, without doubt, saying that genocide, forced slavery, and rape are totally fine.

Oh and by the way, when you say "God of the Old Testament", you're speaking as if it is somehow a different god than the one of the new. Be careful with that.. if you acknowledge that, the selfsame never changing and always alone God would be completely justified in telling his people to genocide everyone around them that do not agree with his ways, killing all of the males, and females who have had sexual relations, and keeping the virgins for yourself.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Jomina]

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Jomina]

To answer your question, "Blood Feud".

One tribe member kills another tribe member. The other tribe gets revenge, and repeat until one tribe is eradicated or some how a agreement of hostilities happens. (Usually when both sides are endangered by the tribal genocide.)

Moses declared total war won all the inhabitants of Canaan. Sometimes even killing all of the livestock of the opposing tribe, exp Jericho.

Lets say Moses existed in 1948. And the 10 plagues affected Germany, And Moses crossed the Mediterranean sea to the promised land.

Moses then directs the Hebrews to kill everybody in their promised land, Muslim, Christian, Samaritan, etc. No one is spared except the "tribe" of Hebrews that Moses is escorting.

Lets assume the Hebrews didn't kill everybody as directed.

Fast forward to now.

1) The Palestinian tribe still has a blood feud with Israel, Along with the surrounding tribes of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. The only tribe that sorta supports them is Egypt, and its chief partner lies across the ocean.

2) The Jews of Israel are adopting foreign religions and embracing the surrounding world Values. ie worshiping idols.

3)The God of Isreal gets pissed at Isreal for letting the pagans live, and lets the Muslims drive Isreal into the sea.

Lets say, instead the hebrews kill everybody in the promised land.

1)No palestinian uprising, They are now a foot note in history except the few that escaped into Jordan, Syria, and Iraq. But eradicating the non Jews the God of Isreal honers his promise and the Jews still control Gaza, and the Golan heights. The Muslims are afraid and never invade Israel due to Israel never losing a battle\War.

2)The Jews remain totally dependent on "God". Everybody in israel is either a adopted Jew or Pure Jew, its a ultra conservative Jew dream come true.

3)God uses the Jews to eradicate the "false religions" of islam, and christianity . Followed by the rest of the World religions. And then one day, all the nations of the world are subjected to the Jewish God. And the Jews shall become "Jews In Space".

(This of course, assumes only the OT is divinely correct, and Jews could actually keep thier end of the bargain. And not worship giant golden "Cash Cows".)

reply to post by badmedia


Very true, much of the confusion in the Bible is indeed just that the words are not heard correctly by the reader. Though as I see it, no one is really hiding it in many cases, people just cant hear the underlying truth.

Jesus often said, "let he who has ears hear," not because the people in that land were frequently born without ears, but because even he knew that most would focus in the specific words and not the underlying message. He spoke in parable purposely.

All of that said however, some things in the Bible were simply added by humans and have no "Divine" connection at all other than they share a book.

For instance the much loved "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" story simply is not in ANY of the earliest versions of the Bible.

en.wikipedia.org...

Although in line with many stories in the Gospels and probably primitive (Didascalia Apostolorum refers to it, possibly Papias also), most scholars agree that it was not part of the original text of John's Gospel.[2] The standard Greek texts of John, and almost all modern translations, mark it off with double brackets—[[...]]—indicating this opinion.

And Deuteronomy is also in serious question;

en.wikipedia.org...

The majority scholarly opinion is that the bulk of the book appears to have been composed in the late 7th century BC, during the religious reforms carried out under king Josiah, with later additions from the period after the fall of Judah to the Neo-Babylonian empire in 586 BC; a minority view holds that the book is largely a creation of the post-Exilic, Persian period, i.e. the 4th century BC and even later. Its essential concerns mirror the thrust of Josiah's reforms: Yahweh is to be accepted as the sole God of Israel, and worshiped only in one place.

Not to mention that there are parts of the Bible that are shared with other, older, religions such as the flood myth.

From a non-dogmatic point of view, clearly the Bible is a compilation from a pretty wide variety of sources. I have no doubt at all there are parts that are reflective of Divine inspiration. However, I also have no doubt that there are parts added by men, to serve men needs, not Gods will.

I think if you have ears to hear, and eyes to see, as Jesus would say, you can pretty much hear the words that are Divine ring in your heart as you read them, in my opinion of course. I am sure there are many who are equally sure I am a heretic and going straight to hell. Lol.

I also like to understand the history of the document itself so that I can understand to some degree the motivation behind the additions and changes.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by The Stand
...as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

No wonder you can't understand it. Apparently, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Who was it again that is saying that? (Here's a hint: It's not God.)

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

19And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;

Are you claiming Moses made this all up in order to get himself a few thousand virgins and some coin?

Do we now get to pick and choose what god allegedly said, if it's good stuff, god is the great truth, but if it's bad stuff, then man is an evil fabricator?

But to be honest, man wrote all of this stuff. Lunatics claiming to hear the voice of god - as if a god of such omnipotence would need a mere feeble human to speak on his behalf - will come and go as long as we exist.

Jesus said this... Moses said that... Mohommed this other thing...When are we going to realize that all of this is just words in some book? We can free ourselves from this stuff by getting in touch with our own idea of spirituality.

reply to post by The Stand


the bible is a tool to control your thoughts , feelings , beleifs, thru scare tactics. man made the bible, and in the time it has been updated. what a large farse. religion is a joke. a plore to control the masses. religion is to control the nut cases so that they do not get out of hand. people have been killing one another over this earth for hundred of thousands of years. it is pathetic, control is for the fool. knoweledge is for the people who know how to teach without control but thru reward, even if reward is more knoweledge. the naysayers can gloom and doom all they want for they toil in thier own misery. i tell you all, get informed of free will and knoweledge, it will set the misery free from you all , so you can live a happy true life.