Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

reply to post by djpaec

Also you must remember the god of the Old Testament as Compared to the New Testament. Is a vengeful, and often times pretty jealous. =p

Not to mention insane, petty, contradictory, a lover of money (I should make a list of the RICH people mentioned in the bible as opposed to the POOR people mentioned), a pervert, a warmonger, a murderer.......

reply to post by wylekat

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins

i think thast the best statement available to display gods interesting actions in terms of his wrong doing

["The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins]

No actually I believe that describes most of MANKINDS actions ...

well the bible does talk about mythical beings....so i wouldn't put much stock in its literal meaning.

reply to post by Simplynoone


no actually has no place in that statement

unless i was sugegsting it WAS what you blelieved, which i dont remember

your opinion does not agree with the statement and your opinion is yours to hold

no actually would infer it was wrong, you agreeing or disagreeing does not of its self make it a false statement

reply to post by noobfun


Hey Noob,

Just want to say before starting that when I say Christians or Christianity, I don't just automatically mean each and every person. That would be entirely unfair of me to sweepingly generalize in such a way. There are exceptions.

well the bible teaches only the followers of jesus get to happy land when they die,

I don't believe the bible teaches that. Yet, it is obvious that many/most of the followers of the believe that it does.

Additionally, about getting to the happy land... it is also too bad that it isn't understood that that is supposed to happen while alive.

ok this i want clarification of

The conception that only the followers of Jesus will go to heaven portrays God as running some sort of Country Club and that the Christian religion has exclusive ownership of God.

This cannot be despite the biblical verses that might be clung to that, in their minds, justify their tribal thinking.

The usual culprits are: John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

And another is: Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

These do not mean what most might think they do. Either due to not recalling other verses in the bible and being able to see how the different verses can work together harmoniously, or by not even knowing what the bible says and relying on someone else to tell them what it means.

If Christians really believed all that they consider to be true about God, with the number one being that God is Love, how can they come up with interpretations that portray God as prejudicial, exclusive and etc. Do they not ever ask themselves: How does this scripture provide me with a better understanding of the goodness of God; goodness and love not just for me, but for all of mankind?

Instead an incomplete picture is run with that they end up acting out: being hateful, superior and exclusive.

What a draw to their religion... surely the world wants and needs more hate and superiority and tribalism. riiiight

The bible is a test and many use it to their detriment. It is also too bad that the religion of Christianity doesn't know anything about the religion they were spawned out of... Judaism. The Jews teach that the 'written" bible is a curse without the oral teachings. And, so we see, it is.

Also, from Genesis to Revelation there is all this controversy within the religion as to what is meant, with the result that any thinking person can see the confusion generated and are left with their own conclusions. Yet, the bible calls for unity ... to be of one mind (not of one personality, how boring), but to be in agreement. It also says that God is not the author of confusion. It seems to me just by observing the massive number of denominations within Christianity that there is a lot of confusion.

Bottom line for me is: If a scripture cannot be interpreted to show the goodness and love that is God, then the correct interpretation is still yet to be had.

(Before I get told by someone that I've neglected God's judgment, let me just say that God's judgments are fair and just. And, what's more, they are tempered with mercy.)

On to my second comment:

Additionally, about getting to the happy land... it is also too bad that it isn't understood that that is supposed to happen while alive.

You are aware of the verse that says:

Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28

And also this verse, especially what follows the comma: But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead." Matthew 8:22

There are, to me, two kinds of life and two kinds of death. Kahil Gilbran in one of his works wrote: "Each man is two men. One asleep in the light and the other awake in the darkness."

To me, what Kahil wrote is concise and explains what it would take me a hundred words or more for me to try to convey.

Do you see the correlation and how they apply to those two scriptures?

Then, there are many other scriptures too written about a living person going to heaven... the second heaven, the third... who remained alive on this earth. Yes, there are many heavens.

Heaven is supposed to be also on earth. Ultimately, what is heaven? Nothing but all living harmoniously and not trying to force our personal will onto others.

reply to post by L.I.B.


i quite like that philosophy of the bible

im sure there are a few faces that will pop up and rip it to shreds in their usual tollerant manner

but your view is certainly a whole lot more appealing then thiers

if i was making the leap of faith i could be happy landing in the close proximity of your version

but im not about to make that leap so no getting too excited ^_^

interesting twist on Matthew 16:28

i usually just use it to make the alarm clock gag or jesus being an exibitionist

Originally posted by L.I.B.
The bible is a test and many use it to their detriment. It is also too bad that the religion of Christianity doesn't know anything about the religion they were spawned out of... Judaism. The Jews teach that the 'written" bible is a curse without the oral teachings. And, so we see, it is.

I agree with what you are saying. I wonder if the Jews view it as a curse because people will focus on the words themselves rather than the understanding.

reply to post by noobfun

if i was making the leap of faith i could be happy landing in the close proximity of your version

but im not about to make that leap so no getting too excited ^_^

LOL, okay, I won't, besides if I were to do so that would involve expecting something, and that's just doesn't feel comfortable.

interesting twist on Matthew 16:28

I thought that you'd be able to make the connections.

i usually just use it to make the alarm clock gag or jesus being an exibitionist

Really? You'd do that?

reply to post by Simplynoone

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins

Kinda like Jabba the Hut. Not so much evil as plain unpleasant.

"Bully"? An odd way to end such an epic quote.

[edit on 16/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by badmedia

I agree with what you are saying. I wonder if the Jews view it as a curse because people will focus on the words themselves rather than the understanding.

Pretty much.

There's a multiple of understandings, or meanings possible that a person can come away with from the most basic literal meanings to symbolic meanings and on into the hidden mystical meanings with every single verse.

The oral teachings are designed so that the hidden mystical meanings are discovered by the student on their own. That way the knowledge obtained is theirs, not given or taught even though there is a teacher, whom could be considered more a guide.

It's a science of sorts.

Badmedia,

Here are the levels:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

Should have gotten that info together before replying to you.

reply to post by L.I.B.


Yes, it's philosophy. To get understanding is to see the equation, instead of just the variables. Once you have the understanding, you can see them being expressed over and over in mulitple places. Where words have had a definite and literal meaning, with understanding you can easily apply them over many circumstances.

You see the pattern, and then you have wisdom. And then once you have wisdom, you will be able to apply the pattern to your current perspective(multiple times) which will reveal the truth of that perspective. If you focus solely on the words, then you will be unable to do so. As they do not see the pattern and understanding, they will be reduced to following symbolism, and will do things that go against the understanding because they will be blind to the truth.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Badmedia,

Here are the levels:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

Should have gotten that info together before replying to you.

I can understand that. I have often figured people kind of get the level that they need at the time, but it's a shame they do not look at all levels. Which is due in large part to only 1 level being allowed/promoted in the mainstream, which is then replaced by them on the deeper levels.

As a child, you learn the simple. As you grow older, you can start to see the parable and see there is meaning under it, then you seek and search for meaning, which leads you into learning god is internal, not external and that provides the mystical. Something along those lines?

reply to post by badmedia

To get understanding is to see the equation, instead of just the variables.

Yes. Very astute way of putting it.

As well as the rest that you said.

As they do not see the pattern and understanding, they will be reduced to following symbolism, and will do things that go against the understanding because they will be blind to the truth.

Yes, and will also not experience the peace that surpasses understanding.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Badmedia,

Here are the levels:

P [Pshat] - literal, simple - BREADTH
R [Remez] - parable, allegory - LENGTH
D [Derasha] - seek, search - DEPTH
S [Sod] - inner, mystical - HEIGHT

Should have gotten that info together before replying to you.

I can understand that. I have often figured people kind of get the level that they need at the time, but it's a shame they do not look at all levels. Which is due in large part to only 1 level being allowed/promoted in the mainstream, which is then replaced by them on the deeper levels.

As a child, you learn the simple. As you grow older, you can start to see the parable and see there is meaning under it, then you seek and search for meaning, which leads you into learning god is internal, not external and that provides the mystical. Something along those lines?

Exactly that line.

Speaking of lines, this is my second one.

Originally posted by L.I.B.

LOL, okay, I won't, besides if I were to do so that would involve expecting something, and that's just doesn't feel comfortable.

maybe a cushion would help?

does this mean i dont have to send a christmas card too? ^_^

I thought that you'd be able to make the connections.

i r cleva i undastand stuff well sometimes

Really? You'd do that?

well if im honest the alarm clock jokes goodwolfs from a u2u convo

but theres always comedy in asking someone if that means i have to watch jesus masturbate to get into heaven .. i know im shameless

reply to post by noobfun

maybe a cushion would help?

That DOES sound good and also like temptation... Get thee behind me SATAN!

I can joke too, right?

does this mean i dont have to send a christmas card too? ^_^

Yep, cause I know you think about me anyway.

i r cleva i undastand stuff

well sometimes

l.i.b., that is so

and me too

well if im honest the alarm clock jokes goodwolfs from a u2u convo

Don't think I know the alarm clock joke. Share?

but theres always comedy

Yes, there's always that

... i know im shameless

Totally?

edited to fix html

[edit on 17-11-2008 by L.I.B.]

Originally posted by L.I.B.That DOES sound good and also like temptation... Get thee behind me SATAN!

cant reply to that on here lets just say the mental image would get me banned and if you cant guess ill u2u it

Originally posted by Simplynoone

The carnal minded man cannot understand ...and you my friend are a perfect example of that ....

i certainly seem to be today .... not sure what i did to deserve that comment i was talking about evolution and satan doing his easter egg hunt hiding them for us to find

I can joke too, right?

yepp you certainly can, and your sarcasm is cutting now if we get them together and to ahve some fun together itll be even more fun around here

Yep, cause I know you think about me anyway.

are you sure your not trying to get me to marry you ?

Don't think I know the alarm clock joke. Share?

Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 so jesus told em wait here ill be right back? isnt 2000 years a bit of an extreme BRB, did he forget to set his alarm clock?

... i know im shameless

Totally?

why what ya got in mind?

reply to post by noobfun

ROFL

noob, man...

I get it! No need for spelling it out! LOL

I can joke too, right?

yepp you certainly can, and your sarcasm is cutting now if we get them together and to ahve some fun together itll be even more fun around here

You're right. No promises, but I'll see what kind of work I can do on that.

Yep, cause I know you think about me anyway.

are you sure your not trying to get me to marry you ?

Can't get you to do what you already are.

Don't think I know the alarm clock joke. Share?

Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 so jesus told em wait here ill be right back? isnt 2000 years a bit of an extreme BRB, did he forget to set his alarm clock?

Ah, okay. Thanks.

... i know im shameless

Totally?

why what ya got in mind?

LOL, I got my answer!



Note to self: check html before posting to prevent need for edits

[edit on 17-11-2008 by L.I.B.]