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Sexual Preferences

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posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 01:39 PM
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Both are sexual prefferences but they are not comparable.

Can a child make a contract? Can they buy a house? How about a car? Neither can the cat someone pointed out earlier.

They, by law, CANNOT consent. There fore it is automaticaly "rape".

It would be the same as saying takeing a consenting woman to bed is the same as dragging one into an alley beating them into submission and raping them.


After all both are just sex, right?




posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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WEbdevil: "Thats a poor excuse for an argument, sorry, it is. Being gay cannot be helped, and when it is TWO ADULTS that aren't doing anything illegal, then whats the problem? A pedophile is a completely different situation, there is just no comparison. Being a pedophile means liking UNDERAGE CHILDREN. NOT adults. Huge difference. Child Molestation is not a preferance, just something that comes along with it. It will probably open the doors for new debates if we legalize gay marriage, but, hey, if the 'powers that be' have ANY sense at all, then being a pedophile won't even make the debate for 'legal' or 'not'."

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days. I think that pedophiles probably are born the way they are. Same as hetro, gay, etc. It is an aberent behavior though. Same as a pyromaniac, they can't help it. The problem with pedophiles is the predetor nature that goes along with their sexuality. As an aberent behavior we are appalled, as we should be, and take steps to protect our young. We don't tolerate pyro's why should we pedophiles?



posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Both are sexual prefferences but they are not comparable.

They are compairable to a point. But really I was commenting on another thread, not really making an arguement but rather countering one.

They, by law, CANNOT consent. There fore it is automaticaly "rape".

Obviously. I am not talking about actually executing said desire, only the fact that it is there. I believe it to be a choice, perhaps not concious, but a choice or life decision nonetheless.

After all both are just sex, right?

Um, no. I like you man but you didn't really read my post. I said "sexual desire", not sex. There is a world of difference (usually jailtime).




posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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child molestion is different. that shouldn't be in the same category.



posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 05:42 PM
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Obviously. I am not talking about actually executing said desire, only the fact that it is there. I believe it to be a choice, perhaps not concious, but a choice or life decision nonetheless.



So you could just have easly CHOOSE to be gay?

I did not choose to be stright it is just my nature.

It could be just as easily be my nature to be a child molester or a rapist but those involve FORCING someone else so they are wrong, while consenting adults are another matter all togather. As long as no one is being forced I do not see any harm. You are right that a gay person can choose not to act on their urges but so can a stright person. I could remain celebite for the rest of my life but I would STILL be stright.

My sexual orentation is not a choice just whither I have sex or not is.

I do not think a child molester or a serial killer can help being what they are either but the key is CONSENT.



posted on Apr, 3 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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"You are right that a gay person can choose not to act on their urges but so can a stright person. I could remain celebite for the rest of my life but I would STILL be stright.

My sexual orentation is not a choice just whither I have sex or not is.

I do not think a child molester or a serial killer can help being what they are either but the key is CONSENT."

True, it's the acting on our urges, not the way we are that matters.

I had finished work last night approx 1 am. On the way home, on a major hwy., this ass hole damn near runs me off the road. I was steamed, I didn't chose to be upset, I just was. Now my URGE was to follow this bastard and explain life to him with meaningful dialogue. The difference is I controlled that urge and I am here today rather than sitting in a holding cell until Monday to answer assault charges.



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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does someone here think that you are born gay?

if so plz humor me



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 06:36 PM
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The pedophile argument one is actually a poor one.We are talking about two consenting adults.A child does not have the legal right to enter into a sexual relationship.

Accepting that what two consenting adults get up to behind closed doors is none of our business does not mean that by any stretch anyone would wish to condone pedophilia which is illegal because a child does not have the ability to make mature decisions, in the eyes of the law.

In the debate I point out that only 3 years ago Alabama had a law stopping inter racial marriages and 40 years ago 16 states had similar laws on their statute books.

No doubt at the tim some of the arguments were similar.They might say that if you allow inter racial marriage what next ? Bestiality?

Your mother is making a moral judgement on issues that really do not effect her.She is grouping all issues that she finds morally repugnant into one group but she must understand that some of those issues are not illegal.Homosexuality is not illegal.[/qoute]

The pedohile argument is not poor, as it pertains to the supposed legality of gay marriage now being fomented in our courts today. If two men or women may be conjoined in holy sacrement, why not child love or animal love have their due in the councils of states and cities???
Do you have faith in the courts to uphold such standards while the standards of today fall like rain by the wayside?? ???????????????

Your argument analogizing the civil right movement in America with this is revolting and reviling.

Can you or are you reckognized as gay by sight?
When a gay person walks in a room, is he/she instantly recognized as a homsexual?

NO.

Why, because the pigment does not give the first clue my friend.

The use of the Black struggle for human rights in America is not to be used or adopted by a group of individuals wanting to practice deviant sex and gain privilege and undue benefit for said acts under the law.


Why is bestiality illeagal?????????



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 06:48 PM
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Amuk, buddy, you are confussing choice with concious choice.

I did not say that you one day just sat up and decided to be straight.

It's not that way.

But since Alcoholism (a disease - since it's considered bad) is genetic, that stands to reason that all with the gene will become alcoholics.

Of course this is not true, but rather that person is formed by it nature and by it's nuture along with environment.

To put persona in such strict catagories as "I born into someone" I think is a bit simplistic.



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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Jethro

I dont really think we are far apart on this.

What I am saying is that someone is born with the urges they have. To have these urges and to act on these urges are two different things.

I ask you a question, could you choose now to be gay?

Is there ANY point in your life when you said "well I like both men and women but I guess I will just have sex with women"?

Or have you ALWAYS been attracted to women?

Could you make a choice to change your preferences?

I could choose to have sex with a man but could never be attracted to one. NOTHING will change this.

This has NOTHING to do with who I HAVE sex with just who I WANT to have sex with.



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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Any man has the ability to be attracted to anal sex, which with a woman (her doing him that is) is not gay.

Men have sexually stimulatable areas in the anus that make contact there pleasureable, so yes, any man could just "up and be gay".

Stimulating the anus does not make you gay, but being with a man does.

The fact that most men deny this is rediculous and speaks to fear of it that I think makes people homophobic (the real ones).



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Any man has the ability to be attracted to anal sex, which with a woman (her doing him that is) is not gay.



Go ahead buddy and let me know



I am talking about being sexually attracted to a man not any sex act in it self

I know a gay guy that has NEVER had anal sex ,or at least thats what he told me



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Any man has the ability to be attracted to anal sex, which with a woman (her doing him that is) is not gay.


Lets get one thing perfectly clear. I would not let any woman no matter how hot she is go anywhere near my a$$hole. Some guys maybe be into it, but my a$$ is OFF LIMITS!



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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To raven and Amuck;
you both tried to equate gay marriage to a civil right, it is not. The abillity to get married is gaurenteed to no one gay or str8....it is not my civil right to ever have a bride/spouce....and no one will be obligated to provide me with one. The fact that anyone is/is not married has no bearing on the rest of their life, one can still have a successful career, live with someone they love, drive a car and do anything else a non married person can. There is no right to a marriage for anyone.

Several people mentioned that its not the governments business to interfere in this manner....i agree to a point.
while id prefer that the government stay out of my personal affairs....government interaction is nessisary for certain things to balance out for everyone (public safety) or the society overall (cultural definition).

ANY CULTURE has the rights to set the boundaries for what they feel is acceptable for them, as well as to define themselves from the rest of the cultures out there. IF that culture decided no to say.....smoking in public places, then its NO, and all of us that feel left out in the cold (literally) or feel like our freedoms have been taken away face few choices, right or wrong, the culture has decided that this is what they want as a boundary/definition for them.

A few people have also mentioned that "2 concenting adults doing nothing illegal" well, for the past several decades at least, the physical acts involved in gay sex have been illegal....(SODOMY LAWS, ORAL SEX IN SOME CASES) Gay marriage is not illegal, its just not legally reccognized.

THE BIG PICTURE ON SEXUAL CHOICE.
If in a democratic society they decide to not legitimize gay marriage/civil unions...then they HAVE THAT RIGHT TO MAKE THAT CHOICE...right, wrong, or debatable. While a person can choose to act upon their sexual urges or not, or to get married or not, that does not mean that this choice would be acceptable or that the society overall has to condone this choice.

In fact if a person that wants to be legally gay married does not find that capasity in the society they reside in, THEY CAN CHOOSE TO MOVE TO ONE THAT DOES!! Why with so many choices on this topic have the gay marriage folks come out with "were soo oppressed" ?
Why do they feel the need to force change upon those that have done nothing against them (except relax their cultural standards already)



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Go ahead buddy and let me know


No thanks, it was for a point (no pun intended) only.

I am talking about being sexually attracted to a man not any sex act in it self

I know a gay guy that has NEVER had anal sex ,or at least thats what he told me


Regardless. Take two people. One is loves dogs and the other does not.

The dog lover loves the interaction and friendship the dog provides and he takes care of the dog.

The other wants absolutely nothing to do with dogs whatsoever. He actually gets grossed out by the thought of a dog licking him.

Is this born into you too?

There are myriad aspects of likes, dislikes, tastes, and revultion incorporated into each person. It is unlikely to find that they are born in traits, but rather learned over time regardless of cognative thought on the matter.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:20 AM
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There are myriad aspects of likes, dislikes, tastes, and revultion incorporated into each person. It is unlikely to find that they are born in traits, but rather learned over time regardless of cognative thought on the matter.



How many times has we debated this very point?


Again we will just have to agree to disagree.

I know to myself I have always been attracted to women it was not a learned thing just a part of my nature, something that I was born with and I doubt any amout of 'Retraining" would change that.

I simpley am not attracted to men. Period.

Now the choices of "regular", oral, or anal sex with a woman are choices and preferences that change for lots of reasons on any given day but the fact that the object of my affections is a WOMAN never changes.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:24 AM
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We'll probably have to agree to disagree.

But as for retraining, the point is, is that that would be impossible because you are already a cognative adult (and an old geezer at that..... MOVE OLD TIMER!!! :lol
.

Children are very different, and I know (at least I can swear I remember you talking about it) you are a father, and have seen the whole process where a child learns absolutely everything.

A blank slate. You could never become that again (well, aside from extreme trama, but it would still not be the same).



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 07:34 AM
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Children are very different, and I know (at least I can swear I remember you talking about it) you are a father, and have seen the whole process where a child learns absolutely everything.


Not everything, take right or left handedness for example that is a "born" trait although one can use either hand you are born to prefer one. It is hardwired into your brain and I believe that sexual preference is too.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:06 AM
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That's a pretty big stretch.

Compairing which side of your body is the strong side to the feeling (abstract) of attraction is a really big leap man.

I know what you are saying and I do think that some people might be more prone to picking up on the gay vib, but to say it is born in I think is foolhardy.

APA be damned.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Well then, if it is so easy to change sexual preferences, then I think I will be gay.(Looks at a picture of a guy) Nope, can't do it. Sorry, but it can't be changed. People use to think it was, went to shrinks, tried to change, but couldn't. Sorry, there is no proof it is a choice.

Anyways, I could be gay, put enough liquor in me I could be an elephant, you never know.

Also, a child molestor like to have sex with kids, an illegal act. A gay/lesbian likes to have sex with the same sex, not illegal. And the well if you allow gays to marry why not brothers and sisters? A dog? Horsess? Tree logs? One legged monkey midgets with sharp pointy midget vampire bunny teeth? You get what I mean. There is no link from two consenting adults and a animal/kid and a human. And incest? Bible says it ok, so why not? Damn religous freaks. The Bible has brothers doing mommy, daddy doing cousin, so forth.

Then for KJ, who thankfully doesn't use the bible, the rest stands, except for the incest. I'm sorry, my sis is not attractive to me. Her fiance or b/f might say other wise, but I'm not them. I did like my 7th cousin, but then she moved. And didn't know she was a 7th cousin.(Thank pebble people I did a family tree project that year in school) but still, unless in Kentucky or West Virginia or other southern state in the bible belt, not gonna happen.(Arkansas, Alabama, Missisippi, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, Georgia, and Tennesee, also the ones who banned inter racial marriges and inter racial schools, restaraunts, so forth)



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