Sexual Preferences

I was arguing with my mom the other night about legalizing gay marriage, (Im for it), and she brought up a point that made me think.

She said "Well being gay is a sexual preference, something that cant be helped. So if you condone homosexuality on the grounds that it is an uncontrollable sexual preference, then you also condone child molestation. Its a sexual preference."

I certainly do NOT condone child molestation, (child molestors deserve to be shot), but it made me think. If we allow gay marriage, are we opening the doors to other things?

Also, if we legalize gay marriage, will taxes be higher? Im not sure...

Why would taxes be higher if we legalize gay marriage?

Child Molestation is not a sexual preference, but an act in accordance with a sexual preference. Pedophilia is the associated sexual preference.

I would assume that pedophilia, if for some ungodly reason it was challenged like gay marriage, were to be somehow condoned, it would still be considered "endangering the welfare of a child" which is what most child molesters are charged with anyway, therefore carrying the proper sentence.

just the other day i read in the paper about a father who was charged with 5 counts of molesting his 8 year old daughter, and was charged with 5 counts of endangering the welfare of a child along with the molestation charges- it almost ensures that no matter what, they'll face some sort of #ty consequence, most likely prison.

Originally posted by Bobbo
Why would taxes be higher if we legalize gay marriage?

Thats what my mom said. I actually thought they would be lower, though.

Phoenix and myself have just completed a debate on this subject.You might want to check it out.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The pedophile argument one is actually a poor one.We are talking about two consenting adults.A child does not have the legal right to enter into a sexual relationship.

Accepting that what two consenting adults get up to behind closed doors is none of our business does not mean that by any stretch anyone would wish to condone pedophilia which is illegal because a child does not have the ability to make mature decisions, in the eyes of the law.

In the debate I point out that only 3 years ago Alabama had a law stopping inter racial marriages and 40 years ago 16 states had similar laws on their statute books.

No doubt at the tim some of the arguments were similar.They might say that if you allow inter racial marriage what next ? Bestiality?

Your mother is making a moral judgement on issues that really do not effect her.She is grouping all issues that she finds morally repugnant into one group but she must understand that some of those issues are not illegal.Homosexuality is not illegal.

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
I was arguing with my mom the other night about legalizing gay marriage, (Im for it), and she brought up a point that made me think.

She said "Well being gay is a sexual preference, something that cant be helped. So if you condone homosexuality on the grounds that it is an uncontrollable sexual preference, then you also condone child molestation. Its a sexual preference."

I certainly do NOT condone child molestation, (child molestors deserve to be shot), but it made me think. If we allow gay marriage, are we opening the doors to other things?

Also, if we legalize gay marriage, will taxes be higher? Im not sure...

child molestation a mental illness and I have yet to see a case where a child molestor didnt have other mental illnesses along with that.
so its not the same as being gay at all

child molestors hurt people, gays hurt no one

JustAnIllusion

Ask your mom if being heterosexual means that you condone child-molesting. After all, being attracted to the opposite sex is a sexual preference, can't be helped.

And if it weren't for heteros, there would be no kids to molest, so are they responsible?

As for taxes, I'm not sure, but there would probably be a big boom in business for wedding planners!

john

Your Mom is apparently worried that the tax credit for marriage is something only God fearing straight people deserve. And allowing for such things as first time home ownership, etc., for gays takes away from the tax base.

I would think encouraging stable, domesticated lifestyles of monogomy and homeownership would ultimately help the communities and tax base as opposed to 24 hour gay bars and bath houses... or other manifestations of those forced to live a life in shame.

But no, taxes won't be impacted largely in one way or another though I suspect committed gays would SPEND a heck of lot more in THIS country as opposed to fantabulous cruises and island vacations.

Your mom's laboring under a few misapprehensions:

1) the majority of child molestors are HETEROsexual -- not homosexual. Cities in the US now post pictures of sex offenders on municipal websites. Go count the number of child molestors and see how many times the victim is a boy and how many times it's a girl.

2) Homosexual relationships weren't the cause of the fall of any civilization. There are civilizations that killed homosexuals and they still collapsed.

3) It's only recently that our American society ruled that sex with anyone under 18 is a felony. In most of the world, children are married (and parents) by age 15, and age 13 is not uncommon. By your mom's standards, then, we have whole countries/nations full of child sex molestors... many of which (Islamic countries) put homosexuals to death.

4) In Jesus' time (by Mosaic law) a man could legally marry a 3 year old girl (3 years and 1 day is the legal age) and there are passages in the Bible where God himself gives little girls to the Israelite men to be their wives and concubines (yes, most folks don't notice this -- but the passages where "those females who have not known a man" are the ones. In those societies, girls were wed by 13, so if you were hunting virgins or assessing virginity by age...)

Did that make the ancient Jews child molestors? What about societies today where children can legally be married at age 13? A friend of mine (10 years ago) got married (legally, with parents' permission) at age 14 -- was the man (age 28) she married a child molestor or what?

The two issues aren't related, as you see.

And no, legalizing gay marriages means that gays will pay more in taxes than they do now. Right now, they've essentially got a "free ride" because two of them living together are only taxed at the individual rate. Would it mean a boost in health insurance? No, no more than if they went out and married someone of the opposite sex.

By your mother's logic, then heterosexual marriage should not be allowed. After all, it is a sexual preference. Now, I don't support gay marriage, but just throwing that in there...

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
I was arguing with my mom the other night about legalizing gay marriage, (Im for it), and she brought up a point that made me think.

She said "Well being gay is a sexual preference, something that cant be helped. So if you condone homosexuality on the grounds that it is an uncontrollable sexual preference, then you also condone child molestation. Its a sexual preference."

I certainly do NOT condone child molestation, (child molestors deserve to be shot), but it made me think. If we allow gay marriage, are we opening the doors to other things?

Also, if we legalize gay marriage, will taxes be higher? Im not sure...

I believe that gay people are born pre-disposed to have same sex preference. I also believe that no one is born with a desire to have sex with children. I think most people would agree that pedophilia is a result of something that happened to the pedophile to make them have that preference. Most likely when the pedophile was a child. ie. childhood molestation, traumatic experience, broken down family, etc.

Thoughts?

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Facefirst]

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst

I believe that gay people are born pre-disposed to have same sex preference. I also believe that no one is born with a desire to have sex with children. I think most people would agree that pedophilia is a result of something that happened to the pedophile to make them have that preference. Most likely when the pedophile was a child. ie. childhood molestation, traumatic experience, broken down family, etc.

So you are saying that abnormal sexual preferences that you agree with are "pre-disposed", but ones you don't agree with are a product of trama?

I don't quite follow your logic here and I think it's rather convinient don't you think?

Yes some people agree that being gay is "something that cannot be helped". But that is very controversial in it's own. IMO, it's not natural. It was Adam & Eve and not Adam & Abe.

I have no problem with gays marrying, who cares.

But saying it is because they were born that way is not good enough so are serial killers.

You can not no more compare child molestation to gays than you can strights its apples and oranges.

They should be allowed simply because they are both adults both are willing and it aint anyone elses damn business

Originally posted by Amuk
They should be allowed simply because they are both adults both are willing and it aint anyone elses damn business

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. A brother and sister, mother and son, grandson and grandmother, etc, are all consenting adults too. But do you advocate incest? You are, with the logic you use there.

Originally posted by Faisca

Originally posted by Amuk
They should be allowed simply because they are both adults both are willing and it aint anyone elses damn business

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. A brother and sister, mother and son, grandson and grandmother, etc, are all consenting adults too. But do you advocate incest? You are, with the logic you use there.

I find it discusting myself but if they are adults it is STILL none of my business

I'll say it and say it again...

Keep religion out of government and let all wanting to marry (no matter preference) be up to those who want to marry.

Now, as for the molestation. Normally the two parties of molestation are not all willing, the unwilling being the child. Also, have in mind, those hetero/homo are not raping their partners. Tell your mother to look up the definition of "molestation" before she starts her assumptions. Comparing child molestors to homosexuals is just plain sick and hurtful to those who prefer the same sex.

If she wants to compare them with molestation, offer you compare her relationship to say... Rapists?

There's no proof that a serial killer is born a serial killer. A serial killer, in the classic profile, usually comes from a broken home, or was molested as a child, or exposed to some traumatic experience, and acted out there anger, resentment, etc, on animals or even friends- i.e abuse, torture.

Jeffrey Dahmer didn't come out of the womb predisposed to eating human flesh.

Originally posted by Bobbo
There's no proof that a serial killer is born a serial killer. A serial killer, in the classic profile, usually comes from a broken home, or was molested as a child, or exposed to some traumatic experience, and acted out there anger, resentment, etc, on animals or even friends- i.e abuse, torture.

Jeffrey Dahmer didn't come out of the womb predisposed to eating human flesh.

Good point.

Originally posted by Bobbo
There's no proof that a serial killer is born a serial killer. A serial killer, in the classic profile, usually comes from a broken home, or was molested as a child, or exposed to some traumatic experience, and acted out there anger, resentment, etc, on animals or even friends- i.e abuse, torture.

Jeffrey Dahmer didn't come out of the womb predisposed to eating human flesh.

So are thousands or even Millions of others that dont become serial killers so tramua is not the whole answer either.

There are some studies that show differences in the brain patterns of some so the answer is probebly somewhere in-between