How could Lucifer have tempted Eve in the garden when he had not been cast from heaven yet?

I think that the bible is one source changed over so many years it is like playing chinese whispers over a thousand year period involving every race on the plannet. I think some of the basic messages are the same however the very fact Christianity is a mish mash of pagan and Egyptian religions put together by a Roman Emporer to keep everyone happy, there is bound to be contridictions and also holes to pick. I believe in a higher power and try to live a good life, it is enough for me

Originally posted by On the level
I think that the bible is one source changed over so many years it is like playing chinese whispers over a thousand year period involving every race on the plannet. I think some of the basic messages are the same however the very fact Christianity is a mish mash of pagan and Egyptian religions put together by a Roman Emporer to keep everyone happy, there is bound to be contridictions and also holes to pick. I believe in a higher power and try to live a good life, it is enough for me

Yes that's what we humans have made religion into. We are doomed to be believers with out Any real proof. And the further we get from the beginning of time the harder it gets to believe.

Aww but the bible is a puzzle and if read and referenced properly and studying and praying ..with the help of the Holy Spirit (Which it is holy spirit inspired anyway )so it would take the Holy Spirit to be able to understand it ,
We can put some of it together once we have read and reread all the pieces to the puzzle ...Some of it is not for us to know yet obviously ..if we knew it all we would try and stop it ...if we thought we could ...so he wont let us know all of it yet ..
Just like everyone says ....If we try and see it all in the logical way *plain reading of the word ...all literal ..then we will never understand it ....
*(as it is hid from the eyes of the carnal minded man) because he is carnal and does not know spirit ...neither does he want to ....


The OT (ALL OF IT) was written for an EXAMPLE ..*(things that have been and things that are and things that will be again ...(some things were symbolic ..some things were literal some both ..) ...
What has been before WILL BE AGAIN nothing new under the sun ..(Dont forget that when reading the scriptures) the only new thing is JESUS and the very last time of the END ....(When never again will history repeat itself ) and never again will the earth be messed up ...and never again will it get this bad ......
There are many pieces to the puzzle throughout the entire OT >.for the future events yet to come ..........
Similar events ...slightly changed maybe in some ways but very similar and maybe even some stuff will be exactly like then .

As you read through it ..you can see similar events happening only at different times with different people even ......

I think even Rev goes through it all (It mentions what was [past]the present[what is now] andwhat is still to come written in it ...
Of course narrowed down (short version) ..

For instance the seven churches ..*They were literal and did exist at that time ...but are also symbolic (Or descriptions) of certain peoples possibly even religions ...(or both) ....and may even be about the seven kings or seven heads of Rev (describing them giving us clues to what countrys they are ) .........

that is just one example ..


And of course that is all just my opinion of which is not YET SET IN STONE .
I am just like anyone else ..trying to find it out what is what and when was what and what is going to be again ...

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Haiku


Sometimes the Bible was not compiled in chronological order. Since it the inspired word of God, you have to accept some things on faith. If a persons goal is to refute the word or God, they can see or reason what suits their pre-conceived beliefs. Faith is the answer.

reply to post by Simplynoone



I used to think just like you do. And i didn't get Any where. And i think many people can relate to what your saying right now.

But your onto something when you mention the wholly spirit. Can i ask you if you know what a wholly spirit is.

Have dose the wholly spirit help you in the quest for the right knowledge.

Can i ask you if you see Any similarities between human thought knowledge and what the wholly spirit is all about. Because there is really a big gap between them.


What do you understand by the saying.

You can see the needle in someone else's eye but you dont see the log in your own.

It really tells you where you have to start. And when you figure that part out you will know what the wholly spirit is all about and have it can guide you. Because you have to be honest to see the big picture and understand the wholly spirit. If not you would only question the wholly spirit.

Don't think i am talking about attitude.I am talking about your Carma your soul.
It will help you to read the bible in a whole different way. Beacuse you will see a different picture and meaning of the words.

I do think a lot of peole realy get things right at the first glance but then they start to question their own thoughts. Its like you have to google to see if you have the right answer. If your a person who dose that then you dont know anything about the wholly spirit. And you have no faith in it but you put your faith in the human made system.

Remember we are only thought the knowelage that suits the system you are going to live in.And the same gose for religion. Religion is groomed to fit into our way of life. If you go to church you will see that the priest keeps part of the bible hidden from the publick. Because to day religion and our way of life go hand in hand.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

To day humanity has given religion the blame for all our suffering and let the preacher of the hook. When its really the preachers who is to blame for human suffering. They are the once who have used religion to groom us. And they sure ain't preaching the whole bible to the public they never have.

But what else could the people do when the church is protected and used by the elite. The owner of the sharpest sward has always had the power to dictate the truth. Even if the dictated truth is a lie. We know all this but accept it to keep out of trouble. Or we just didn't have any power to do anything about it. Our history is full of examples of this.

Great minds have made many great books to keep us of track or to make us question the knowledge of life and religion. ATS is full of it. Its full of human imagination.

But the greatest problem we really face is the one we have put on our self and what we force our children to fallow.

We force our children to worship human rules or the same roles you are forced to live by. Because the human made system demands it of you. If you dont you will get punished by your government.

We give our children our opinions on religion even though we might know nothing about it. But the intention is to make them have the same opinions as you have. And when the kids get their own opinion you will argue against them. And why is that!!!

When the kids get older they are introduced to a new system. A system of knowledge this system is made to teach them what they need to know and have to solve different types of problems, but only within the roles of the human made systems we are forced to fokus and prepare our self to serv the system. Because the teachers who is brought up by the same system wouldent know anything else. Because they are only thought have and what to teach you. If they cross the line they might loos their job. They have to stick to the facts and the educational guide lines that our system demands.

Now what dose our system tell us about our way of thinking. What happens to a person who is been thought only certain things and faced with roomers in public. Why dose this complicate our understanding of religion.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

I believe miriam posted the key scripture to prove that the snake was satan. Revelation 12:9:

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

Misleading the earth...starting with eve.

Originally posted by spy66
And from that day on the serpent has become a image of evil used later on as you are applying.

i understand what you are saying, but that still doesnt explain why a serpent had the intelligence and desire to lie to eve and deceive her. it doesnt explain why satan is called the father of the lie.

in other words, i cant see logically where you are going with this, but there are certain things that dont make sense if the serpent is not satan.

like what does jesus have to do with a serpent that has been dead many a year?

Originally posted by spy66
When God created the garden of Eden Lucifer and his angels where united with God. Lucifer the devil didn't reject god before the creation was finished. When God was done with the creation he told the angels in heaven to kneel to his creation. That's when Lucifer started the war in heaven. But before that Lucifer didn't have a reason to tamper with Adam and Eve.

but see now this is falling into the point you were making to me about satan not being specifically named in genesis, this is not in the bible. in fact there is nothing in the bible that says satan is lucifer, there also is nothing saying he was cast down BEFORE the kingdom of god is set up.

just look at job, satan traveled freely between earth and heaven. in daniel, the angel gabriel was stopped by the prince of persia (in heaven) and later the prince of greece.

angels as well as demons could travel to and from earth. it isnt until revelation that we see satan and his demons restricted. and this is closely tied to the last days

reply to post by Haiku

satan was cast from heaven before man was created. jesus said that he saw satan fall like lightning from heaven before the creation of adam -Jesus was there at the beginning - he said before abraham was, I AM.

God created angels, god created man.
God tells angels to bow down to his creation,
all angels do, lucifer does not,
god tells him off "bow down or else"
"why" lucifer asked "He is no angel, nor god, but made of dirt"
"bow down or i put a bolt up your ass lucy" said god,
"NO!"

*ZAAAAAAP BOOOM BANG*

Thus his name, "The fallen one"

Originally posted by wazzock
God created angels, god created man.
God tells angels to bow down to his creation,
all angels do, lucifer does not,
god tells him off "bow down or else"
"why" lucifer asked "He is no angel, nor god, but made of dirt"
"bow down or i put a bolt up your ass lucy" said god,
"NO!"

*ZAAAAAAP BOOOM BANG*

Thus his name, "The fallen one"

and where is the scripture?

The simplest answer to the OP question is being overlooked by everyone..........

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So good and EVIL already existed..........the rebelion of Lucifer had already happend................

God has made this planet "satan's" last stand, it is here he will "corner" ther old devil and kill him for all time.

Earth is the FINAL battleground

How could Lucifer have tempted Eve in the garden when he had not been cast from heaven yet?

Better yet: How could Lucifer do anything before he was even invented? It would take more than 3000 years before a god named Lucifer appeared in the Roman pantheon, which has nothing to do with any biblical religion or god. No the satan in Eden, the cunning Serpent in the Tree, was Adam's ex wife, Lilith. Getting Eve to eat the forbidden fruit was her revenge against Adam for leaving her and their children. Besides, Satan has a tendency of being thrown out of heaven, but he always get right up there after his orders have been fulfilled. You know, God doesn't hate dragons, he hates sinners, and Satan is his main tool to perform justice on man. Satan is God's atteurney you should know...

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
God doesn't hate dragons, he hates sinners, and Satan is his main tool to perform justice on man. Satan is God's atteurney you should know...

and as usual, absolutely no scripture to back that claim up

sounds like a very interesting book, that bible you read

Sorry for going back to this. (sorry if someone said this already)

Mark 5:9: And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. (KJV) [it is argued that the phrasing is, "we are legion, for we are many"]

Dictionary,

legion   

–noun 1. a division of the Roman army, usually comprising 3000 to 6000 soldiers.
2. a military or semimilitary unit.
3. the Legion. a. American Legion.
b. foreign legion (def. 2).

4. any large group of armed men.
5. any great number of persons or things; multitude.
–adjective 6. very great in number: The holy man's faithful followers were legion.

His name was Legion for we are many. Isn't he in fact saying he is part of a "legion" or "group of many".

Maybe this was the legion of Satan as in def. 6 the Holy man's Faithful followers
(Satan in this case being the holy man) So the serpant wasn't Satan, but one of his many or legion of followers.


Sorry again if this was already stated....

Originally posted by PowerSlave

Maybe this was the legion of Satan as in def. 6 the Holy man's Faithful followers
(Satan in this case being the holy man) So the serpant wasn't Satan, but one of his many or legion of followers.

but, 1. its an assumption. and 2. is there any compelling reason that the serpent shouldnt satan?

I have not been evicted from my apartment , yet I leave daily.


2 lines

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
God doesn't hate dragons, he hates sinners, and Satan is his main tool to perform justice on man. Satan is God's atteurney you should know...

and as usual, absolutely no scripture to back that claim up

sounds like a very interesting book, that bible you read

Satan is the accuser, a very important role in the court of law. Yes for it is all about law with God. Ha-Shatan stands before God and accuse humans according to their do and don'ts all day long, like you can see in Job and Revelation. It's his job. Not that I like atteurneys and their job, but we need such a role in our courts. The Holy Spirit is our defence atteurney (if he want's that is)...

Originally posted by Tiloke
I have not been evicted from my apartment , yet I leave daily.

Good point that most people tend to forget. Jesus said about the nature of demons that when you have thrown out an evil spirit it would fly around and find a dozen worse than himself, and he will seek to enter again... It's a war