The snake in the garden of Eden is not Lucifer. Adam and Eve was not tempted by the devil. Where do you people come up with this. Have can you tell that out from the text in the Bible ! God is not referring to the beast (the devil) or anything like that at Any time at this point. God is talking directly to the snake in the garden of Eden. Not to a spirit or anything like that. The snake talked to Eve all on his own. And the snake was condemned for its actions after. Thats what the Bible is telling us about the subject and nothing els.

But i reccon it all depends on have you want to understand the text.

Then the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you shall be banned from all the animals and from all the wild creatures; On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life.

This is from Genesis
Chapter 3.

I cant see where God is referring to the devil at all. But i know that some people like to think that the snake represent the devil because it makes sense. But nowhere in the Bible dose God use the snake as a image of the devil. We have created a false image of the story about the event in the garden of Eden based on our imagination.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66
I cant see where God is referring to the devil at all. But i know that some people like to think that the snake represent the devil because it makes sense.

Then why does it make sense?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by spy66
I cant see where God is referring to the devil at all. But i know that some people like to think that the snake represent the devil because it makes sense.

Then why does it make sense?

It dosent make sense. That's the point. It only makes sense to our understanding of natural laws which we live under nothing else.

Common sense tells us that a snake cant talk to humans. Text from genesis:
Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made. And he (the snake) said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise?

But where Adam and Eve humans in the garden of Eden ? Didn't they become humans only after they had eaten of the forbidden tree. Why cant we imagine that it is possible for Adam and Eve to communicate with the snake.
We keep making assumptions on Adam and Eve based on what we humans can or can not do. We assume that since we cant talk to animals then Adam and Eve cant. This dosent make sense to us so we make up a theory that makes sense. And it makes perfect sense for us to put the Devil in the image of the snake. Even though God is talking to a snake in plain words. Then God condemns the Snake.

And the Lord God said to the serpent:

Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.

If you read this in the Bible you can see that God is not condemning the devil but a thing a snake. " thou art cursed among all cattle , and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life"

This is not what God condemned the devil to do on earth. Or put it like this why would God condemn the Snake and not the devil if the devil was in charge.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Haiku

Faith is blind, it is simply guided in diretions by others who have faith... it it weren't some what blind... it wouldn't be faith... it would be fact.

blind faith is not faith. faith is an assured expectation of things hoped for. keyword: assured.

if my friend has never lied to me ever, and she says that she is going to do something for me, i can have faith that she will keep her word, even though she hasnt dont anything yet.

faith in god is the assured expectation that god will carry through with his promises.

blind faith is probably one of the most damaging misconceptions of the bible.

Originally posted by pureevil81
you are right miriam, this should be common bible knowledge.

unless of course, someone hears their pastor telling them lucifer is satan, amazing how some people just hear something like this and blindly believe it. obviously lucifer is a latin name, yeah, should be 'nuff said.

what amazes me is how passionately people defend that lucifer is satan. if people can get such passionate believes from such ambiguous references with little actual support, it really doesnt surprise me that christianity is covered with false teachings.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Look at world events since that time..........accelerated evil and chaos........

thank you really. its nice to know that there are others who arent blind

Originally posted by spy66
We assume that since we cant talk to animals then Adam and Eve cant.

didnt an angel make a donkey talk? why wouldnt satan be able to do the same thing?

we know it has to be satan from a subtle reference.

in verse 4 and 5 the serpent says "Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

in verse 13 eve basically says that the serpent deceived her. she knew after she ate the fruit that she wasnt like god, the serpent lied.

this was the first lie. keep that in mind, then read john 8:44

[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

or in other translations, satan is called the "father of the lie", the first being in the universe to tell a lie.

thats how we know that satan was the serpent.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by spy66
I cant see where God is referring to the devil at all. But i know that some people like to think that the snake represent the devil because it makes sense.

Then why does it make sense?

It dosent make sense. That's the point.

I wasn't meaning to say it does, or doesn't. I thought that's what you were saying. I saw some dissonance in your statement. I thought you were saying "People think the snake represents the devil, because it makes sense.}

Good information you have Miriam! You are very knowledgeable . . . I look forward to reading more that you write.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by lucidclouds
Good post.

Just out of curiousity, where did you learn all this?

Most people will read the Bible and never make the connections.

Also, do you know the year Satan was kicked out of Heaven?

many many years of studying, even when i wasnt allowed to. i had alot of the elements, then i studied with someone and was able to put some of the more abstract and less obvious pieces together like why do we suffer. figuring out hell was straight forward enough if you do your research.

as for the exact year, that one is extremely difficult.

daniel 4 is the chapter dealing with that. the king of babylon had a dream, about a giant tree that was cut down and prevented from growing for a period of time. daniel showed the king that this vision applied to Nebuchadnezzar.

however the vision had a double fulfillment because in 17 it specifically mentions god's kingdom.

[17] This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

which is a specific reference to jesus.

but here's the thing. the line of kings from jerusalem was cut off in 607 B.C. much like a mighty tree is cut down. it would stay that way until the god appointed his king.

daniel 4 gives us seven "times". in the fulfillment of this prophecy regarding Nebuchadnezzar, the seven times was seven years. seven years for the second fulfillment doesnt make sense. it doesnt fall on anything. however, if it is paralleled, then seven times could equal 7X360 which equal 2520. if you say a day equals a year (see daniel 9), if the starting point is 607 BC then that means jesus was officially enthroned as king in the early 1900's (2520 years later). the exact year, no idea. jesus wasnt born in the year 1. there is some error in that and its disputed eactly when he was born. i think the consensus is around 2 or 3 BC

either way, because satan isnt cast out of heaven until god's kingdom is established, then i would say that satan was caste out sometime in the early 1900's after jesus was anointed king. "woe to the earth" was an understatement, because this century has been like no other.

Sorry, I was just testing you, and you are correct. 1914 was the year satan was ousted from heaven. I don't have the info with me right now.

Have you studied pay attention to daniel's prophecy?

[edit on 11-11-2008 by lucidclouds]

Originally posted by Grumble
If you try to apply logic to the Bible you will be very confused...

Not if you are awake you can see through the rubbish. Well atleast I can...

The bible is lies, used for manipulation there is truths in it but they are so confusing to the everyday person (on purpose ofcourse) that no one knows what to believe/take note of.

If it where real and how it was MEANT then dont you think it'd be clear and understandable from the divine?

The bible is but the writing of MAN, we should live our lifes to find OUR OWN path, not follow the writing of Man/Evil forces that still run our planet to this day.

FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH AND YOU WILL FIND THE WAY. WE ARE ALL A PART OF GREATNESS!

[edit on 11-11-2008 by DigitalKid]

Originally posted by DigitalKid
FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH AND YOU WILL FIND THE WAY. WE ARE ALL A PART OF GREATNESS!

man has followed its own path to "greatness" for 6 thousand years. even with the bible a majority of man has ignored it. even the church has ignored.

the world today is what happens when you do that. people starve, there are wars, crime, and everyone dies.

you know hitler was following his own path also..