How could Lucifer have tempted Eve in the garden when he had not been cast from heaven yet?

Originally posted by lucidclouds

I did not say of all religions, I said the Bible. How is that an insult ot people of other faiths?

I am not even sure if she has all of the truth, but is is the closest I have seen here.

People who get paid don't always teach the right thing. I met a pastor and explained to him why christmas is not a christan holiday. He said he already knew that. I asked if he taught and celebrated it, he said he would be out of a job if he didn't.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by lucidclouds]

[edit on 7-12-2008 by lucidclouds]

It is closest to what you have seen because of what you have been told or have read upon. But, again, Christians, Jews, Catholics, etc. will all have a different say on the bible. You are most likely in the same denomination as her, because you can agree together.

Maybe Satan reckoned the Garden of Eden was dead good and better than heaven, he got into excess maybe. Then he went into the Garden of Excess and found Adam and Eve shagging like Bonobos and he freaked out coz he wanted that. So he became as snake coz that was most shaped like Adam's love sword. Anyway Eve, she was a smart girl and said, 'nah, you're a perv.' Anyway Satan was getting well high on the fruit of the forbidden tree coz it was well psychadelic and talked Eve into it. She questioned who she was, and realised that she had consciousness way beyond the animals in the garden. Satan freaked, he did not want a woman to beat him intellectually so he made her ashamed of herself and she wore a fig leaf. Eve, strong girl that she was spoke to Adam about this and he decided to have a trip from the forbidden tree as well. Came out wanting to screw Eve, but she demanded he put a fig leaf on first because she was ashamed of the human form. Adam asked why? And she said that the snake made her horny. So Adam wanted to be with Eve and wore a fig leaf as well.

I think that that as well as the light and fishes and cows and sheep is part of the whole truth of the bible.

lucifer is in the form of a man, eve was beguiled in the garden by the serpent, a man, adam it reads has relative to him abel, not cain, the serpent is a man and begat cain, who eventually begat lamech

reply to post by rockandroll84101


Rock, do you actually believe this nonsense?

What I mean is, do you really think this parable is meant to represent an actual occcurence?

If I can only reach one person, then I have fulfilled my mission.

These stories are obviously, over the centuries, meant to be parables....in order to show, in the long run, how these Human foibles will ultimately lead to destruction.

Unfortunately, too many prople have taken this BS as literal, and hence we have have the conditions of today.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by rockandroll84101

 

Rock, do you actually believe this nonsense?

Do you even need to ask this question?

I mean, this thread has hit, what, page 11 now. And this is the same topic with a different title that has been argued here at ats since its beginning.

My point is.... YES, these people actually believe this nonsense.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by JbT]

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but I see no reason why angels would not have been allowed to freely travel between Heaven and Earth if they were not yet banned from heaven. No contradiction there as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by lucidclouds

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Well, the Torah or the Pentateuch is the first part of the OT. And the story in question is one of the first and most important stories of the Torah which contains the five Mosaic books. You won't find much on this story elsewhere in the Bible. I don't see your dilemma...

My dilemma, as you call it, is that my answer to the OP is that in revelation, peter, RAISED AS A JEW, calls satan the original serpent the one misleading the entire inhabited earth.

So if I call you a grumpy old fart, it is automatically stated as a fact that you sparked the Big Bang? Besides, when did this Peter of yours say what he said, you're obviously not talking about the Bible, are you, for it's not in it...? Now here, let me rather try to explain for ya'all what exactly happened there in Eden or Paradise back. I'll try to be short. If you choose not to believe me, so be it, but this is how it goes....

Okay let me try and explain this to you. When I say the Bible, i'm speaking of the OT and the NT.

In the Bible book of revelation, writen by the apostle peter, it says :

"7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

Revelation 12:7-9

So in my belief satan was the serpent in the garden of eden, who mislead eve and went on to mislead the earth. My answer to the OP.

So a couple of questions for you.

The wiki entry on Lilit says that Lilit is only mentioned in the hebrew Bible once, in isaiah. is that true? There is no mention of her in the hebrew Bible during the creation account. So where is this info of her? Is it folk lore?

Also does the jewish religion teach that satan was cast out of heaven? If so where?

Thanks. Looking forward to the answers.

reply to post by lucidclouds


I'm sorry, my mistake the apostle John wrote the book of revelation.
So sorry.

Originally posted by lucidclouds


Okay let me try and explain this to you. When I say the Bible, i'm speaking of the OT and the NT.

In the Bible book of revelation, writen by the apostle peter, it says :

eeh... John. Not the Baptist, nor the Sebbedee, but the other guy. The one who miraculously evaded all the trials.

"7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

Revelation 12:7-9

So in my belief satan was the serpent in the garden of eden, who mislead eve and went on to mislead the earth. My answer to the OP.

In the beginning there was a mere serpent, a worm, an adder, and in the end it's grown in to a frekkin' dragon. Well my oh ,my, guess we'll have to keep looking out for this or these beasts...

So a couple of questions for you.

The wiki entry on Lilit says that Lilit is only mentioned in the hebrew Bible once, in isaiah. is that true?

Yes

There is no mention of her in the hebrew Bible during the creation account. So where is this info of her? Is it folk lore?

What would I know, you would probably boil a ked in it's mother's milk anyway. My problam is that you don't read what I write, your problem is understanding what I have already explained in detail. The Torah is but a fraction of the real Torah. It's a way of life, it has spawned sivilisation for many nations. Of course. I'm here to tell you, every letter in the torah and the Tannakh is written and spoken about.

Also does the jewish religion teach that satan was cast out of heaven? If so where?

Thanks. Looking forward to the answers.

Satan was cast out of heaven way back, and has been later on several occations, he can ofcourse enter his own court, which is in heaven. You see once in a while, Ha-Shatan actually created the first laws which involved ethical and moral aspects. The laws he made demanded blood if broken, and a couple of fellows you might know, Cain and Abel followed these laws. And like you may have gotten hold of, God condoned and gave Cain a certain mark on his forehead, the caste of the gods we see still being carried on in India. God made Cain a judge because he had shown good judgement and even humbled God. For this gesture I suppose you would find Cain guilty of something?

Looking forward to reading your replies.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


So my point was that the book of revelation called satan the original serpent. So in my logic, I think: Original, one of the firsts. Then I think, serpent, what comes to mind...a snake. You don't have to agree with me.

So now i'm looking up info on lilith. I'm reading, and correct me if i'm wrong, that this story of lilith is not in any ancient Jewish text. It is from a medieval book called the alphabet of ben-sira. Is that true?

So far, people have a pretty negative review of it. I read that it descibes joshua as a buffoon too fat to ride a horse. Also king david is shown as heartless, even faking his grief over absalom's death.

Is this the same book that you are getting your creation story from?

Not the original serpent, simply the "oldfasioned" serpent. Or the serpent of the old ways... As far as I know serpents are an ancient species, and you say that a serpent living 6000 years ago is the original? get real...

And btw. The Lilith myths predates the Bible, and you even said she was recorded in the bible, still all you can come up with is some silly writing from the dark ages? Comeon.

[edit on 4/1/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Not the original serpent, simply the "oldfasioned" serpent. Or the serpent of the old ways... As far as I know serpents are an ancient species, and you say that a serpent living 6000 years ago is the original? get real...

And btw. The Lilith myths predates the Bible, and you even said she was recorded in the bible, still all you can come up with is some silly writing from the dark ages? Comeon.

[edit on 4/1/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Okay lets forget the original serpent thing. Just agree to disagree.

The name lilith is in isaiah, once. But has nothing to do with the creation part. Wiki calls lilith a mesopotamian storm demon.

The Book of Isaiah 34:14, describing the desolation of Edom, is the only occurrence of Lilith in the Hebrew Bible:

Hebrew (ISO 259): "yelpers meet-[perfect] howlers; hairy-ones cry-[imperfect] to fellow. liyliyth reposes-[perfect], acquires-[perfect] resting-place."
KJV: "The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest."

wiki entry on lilith

I'm not discrediting the word/name lilith, just tring to uderstand when this story came about.

So I ask again, where are you getting this story from? I keep reading that these writings are from medieval books. Please explain the truth.

Well, I'm gonna keep reading up on lilith.

[edit on 4-1-2009 by lucidclouds]

Yes do that, and as for using Wikipedia as your main source of knowledge without being able to back up your claims using other sources, you end up with mere hearsay.

Lilith is a figure connected to the Hebrew culture. She was demonised by God after she had lured Eve into breaking his law. According to ancient traditions she was condemned to live in the desert and see her generations perish before her, day in and day out.

According to some of the same traditions, often refered to as the oral Torah, Adam had left upto seven spouses or wives until he got acquainted with Eve. Apparently he had children with all of them who in their turn mixed with the children of Adams 71 brothers who were created at the same time as Adam. I'd suppose that my people's traditional first forefather Ask was one of these brothers, same would go to Kunta Kinthe and the others. All over the world you find similar stories.

You can choose to believe in God as a breeder making healthy decendants, or as a breeder who through incest and inbred and degeneration would degenerate all he ever made. Hey, even rats and cats rejects their siblings sexually. And for good reason. Interbreeding has many ugly results, not only morally, but also physically somatic and mentally. Good luck. The Bible doesn't contain the whole story you know...

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
You can choose to believe in God as a breeder making healthy decendants, or as a breeder who through incest and inbred and degeneration would degenerate all he ever made. Hey, even rats and cats rejects their siblings sexually. And for good reason. Interbreeding has many ugly results, not only morally, but also physically somatic and mentally. Good luck. The Bible doesn't contain the whole story you know...

Just one more quick question.

What do you think happened after the flood? There was one family on the earth and they were to fill the earth.

Just wondering.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by lucidclouds]

Hehe, nope. They werenot the only ones. Take Mosjeh or Moses for instance. His wife was a Kenite, a descendant of Cain. That alone shows more than Noah and his survived. And the people of Babel where did they come from? The architect behind the tower of Babel was even a Nephilim. A giant by the name Nimrod. Half man, half Annunaki, a Nephilim. The coneheaded pharaos were also of Nephilim descent. Their big hats were made to hide their giant sculls which extended upto foot from the backs of their heads. The gene is still to be found today, and the human gigantism phenomenon is widely known. Take a look at www.burlingtonnews.net...

the snake was sex, not the devil. It is a story about sex.

If the only thing God prohibited Adam and Eve was sex like you say, I suppose it would be alright for them to kill, lie, steal, break laws and so on. If sex was the only law, there would be no law for breaking it, in other words they never sinned.