USA what is your excuse?

reply to post by wayno


Wow.. with that one post I have a new found respect for my northern neighbors. Thank you for that.
(Canada has always been my favorite, but now I won't make fun of you so much.. eh? ) . .

As to the original poster.. if you were born here, you would understand the attitude.

In our "defense" (not that it is really needed) most of the time when someone is "bragging" about America, it is because there are 15 other people bashing it.

I am still laughing about the sports analogies.. that was funny.
You totally miss the reason we even brag that "we are the greatest" and I would imagine the rest of the world makes the same mistake.

(formula one? soccer?)

reply to post by Billson


Hi Billson, thank you for your replies.

I am not sure what success means, In my OP I was having a guess at what might be.
But until we can decide, perhaps we shouldn't try decide which is best?
And until we can decide which is best then we shouldn't go around saying which is the best one.

America has done some amazing things but I think it could have done even more given the available resources.
Has there been a conspiracy to hold it back, was the cold war a silly distraction?

I am pleased that you are leading a happy and successful life, that you have the courage to follow your dreams and desires; I hope you are an inspiration to others to follow their dreams.

No I am not the greatest man on Earth, so I could use the excuse that I wasn't born in the USA

reply to post by mike dangerously

So,what is the UK's excuse for becoming a third rate world power and being stuck with a inbred royal family?

Well from what I understand we were the greatest country, but kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall.
I think what happened was that we were bankrupt after World War 2 and very weak.
France and Portugal tried unsuccessfully to hang onto their empires and we just gave ours up.

But I hardly think anyone would call us 3rd rate we are a member of G8 and have one of top world economies.

I know it's bad to answer a question with a question, but why are so many American presidents related to our, as you put it 'inbred royal family' ?

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Thank you for your long and considered reply mopusvindictus and a big * for you.

I am going to write a separate post as a reply to lots of people but mainly to you.

!!!IMPORTANT!!!!

So everyone, thank you for your replies so far, it is a good discussion so far and I have learned a lot and the thread hasn't ended up as
Plus we haven't had any mods jumping in either

I didn't start my OP on a whim, it didn't just pop in my head and get posted here. I had thought about what I wanted to post before posting. But even so I think I still worded my OP very badly.

I want to apologise for my bad OP wording, but at the time it was the best I could come up with.

Reading and thinking about everyones replies, I want to ask this:

Given the state of the USA and the rest of the world after World War 2, many countries had a new start.

From my point of view the American dream was at it's peak in the 50's and 60's

To quote Historian and writer James Truslow Adams

The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position

Given all of the resources available to the USA and speed of it's growth, what went wrong, it seems that the American dream starting dying in the 70's.
For a lot of people in the USA it's turning in to the American nightmare. How hard working people have lost their homes and jobs?
How many people have to hold down 2 jobs just to survive?

Just imagine if the USA had kept growing you would have the worlds best health care, education, low inflation, high employment affordable housing.
Why is everything made in China and not the USA?

1. I did wonder if it was complacency, a sort of we are the best in the world, so we can ease off a bit, just chill. But you all work so many hours, so that isn't it.

2. Is it just greed and have the capitalist's which made the country grow abandoned their fellow countrymen?

3. Was the cold war and communism a diversion, you were too busy trying to protect the world and let things slip at home?

4. Has the NWO infiltrated and held you back from becoming too powerful?

What are your thoughts?

reply to post by lightchild


Agreed. There is a lot of blind patriotism here. Today, I was driving behind a man with an American flag bumper sticker on his car, who threw an empty can out his window onto the side of the road. Such ignorance and lack of respect really makes me sick sometimes, but I don't think this can be avoided anywhere you go. (This also provided me with some inspiration to make a point of the irony of what I saw today for an art piece. I plan to show a hummer with a "God bless America" bumper sticker, with a hand reaching out the winding tossing a bag of fast food, and show some sort of a landmark in the background. To try and demonstrate the unnecessary excess in some Americans, and irony in them clinging to the statement "God Bless America" with no actual respect for the land itself). America is the self-proclaimed greatest nation on earth, because a lot of people who live here feel very passionately about it, some for the right reasons some for none at all.

When I was in 6th grade I remember my social studies teacher saying to my class "If you don't think America is the greatest country on earth then get out of the country". The tone of my teacher was really serious, and it kinda shocked me and upset it. Especially when it was in response to a conversation from kids having a talk about their nationalities saying something kinda immature (We were in 6th grade) along the lines of "I'm Italian, Italy is the best country!". I think stuff like this tells people to have a great pride in their country, without any reasoning as to why. I've had a similar talk like this one with my friends more recently saying, is America as great as everyone says it is around here? No one wanted to listen to any of the points I was making.

Basically what I'm getting at is what I said I agreed with you on. I think America is a great country, and I love it. But I think its wrong to call your nation the greatest without first reasoning and asking yourself questions. There just is no such thing as the greatest country, its the one you love the most. Any one knocking your topic shouldn't, because it asks a question that should be asked. Critical thinking can never hurt any one.

Respect from a 19 year old American
-Billson

Originally posted by lightchild

!!!IMPORTANT!!!!

So everyone, thank you for your replies so far, it is a good discussion so far and I have learned a lot and the thread hasn't ended up as

Plus we haven't had any mods jumping in either :up........

To make a comment on this particular post, I think our free market has wound up backfiring upon ourselves. Corporations have gone against any morality to try and shove their products down our throats. Kids indulge in senseless idiocy like MTV and a lot of the other mindless aspects of our pop culture. People are so caught up in this, that they have no time to develop a love for traditions. So much nonsense is targeted at our country through commercialism and marketing that people are more concerned with this, and the American Dream has been clouded. People become so obsessed with reality television, paris hilton and brittany spears that they don't examine the lives they are leading themselves.

PROUD INFIDEL SINCE 1968

reply to post by Billson


A * for you too.

I think this kind of arrogant thinking is holding America back.

Today, I was driving behind a man with an American flag bumper sticker on his car, who threw an empty can out his window onto the side of the road. Such ignorance and lack of respect really makes me sick sometimes, but I don't think this can be avoided anywhere you go.

and they will be the first to moan about the rubbish on the sidewalks.

It does happen in many places; someone I knew told me this.

There were two people living in a social housing area and one was moaning about the litter and rubbish in the street. He claimed that it wasn't fair that the local government cleaned the private housing areas and not the social housing areas.
The second person tired to explain that people who lived in the private housing area had more pride and wouldn't throw litter onto the street; they would use a bin. If they saw any litter near their property they are more likely to go and pick it up themselves and put it in their own bin.

but if you go to Scandinavian countries they are very clean.

There just is no such thing as the greatest country, its the one you love the most. Any one knocking your topic shouldn't, because it asks a question that should be asked. Critical thinking can never hurt any one.

Thinking can be the hardest work in the world.
You can tell from the posts who has thought about the subject and who has had an emotional reaction without thinking.

I read a post the other day, but I can't find it at the moment.
It was about getting a B at school, your Mother is pleased and your Father is Angry that you didn't get an A.
Perhaps their are too many Mothers in America?

So much nonsense is targeted at our country through commercialism and marketing that people are more concerned with this, and the American Dream has been clouded. People become so obsessed with reality television, paris hilton and brittany spears that they don't examine the lives they are leading themselves.

Where is it going to end?
In the UK we had a lot of car manufacturing and they made some very bad cars. Over the years Japanese cars became very popular. The UK car industry declined, the government put in place import restrictions and so the Japanese opened up car factories in the UK.
How long before you have high unemployment in the USA and China are opening factories on US soil employing American workers?

reply to post by lightchild


There was a simple thing said once my friend
"United We Stand, Divided We Fall"

1: The 60's in essence were a bad, not a good time for the USA

Internally the Military Industrial Complex was solidifying it's control of the Government of the land

while a ridiculous generational conflict which was indeed led by enemies of the United States of America took root.

We became in these conflicts DIVIDED

Parent Against Child was first, this started in the 60's

Parent Against Parent.... Divorce, became rampant in the 70's

The Family unit was broken, largely by outside influences and thinking

Once that happened Both the Govt within and those with philosophies, either intentional or simply because they were there fractured us took advantage.

Parent against child... led to a manifestation of a "war on drugs" which started from earlier "tough love" an inane thing in which children who often did nothing worse than smoke some refer, were cast out of their homes and then...along comes Uncle Sam to arrest them and declare war on them...

This goes on as... our youth is bottoming out...from abortion, the results of which was Gen X, my generation small in numbers and with no voice, the fight between the Boomers and Silent generations simply has raged straight through until literally ending finally only Last week... (sort of, maybe)

With no genuine enemies and no real problems we looked within to cure the ills of our own society, we... attacked ourselves, each other

Conflicting views, socialism, humanism, questioning of the very nature of freedom itself... political correctness, niche interests...

The American Family has all but vanished

Perfectionism... and outside influences that used the word "freedom" as a rallying cry for Politics and divisive interests that had... not the American family at heart

Hate your Mom, Hate Your Kids, Hate Your Govt, Hate Your spouse

There was and Is no One group to blame but ourselves for allowing it...

In the jail, Muslim activists recruit to this day our Black Youth

In Colleges subversive Communists went after the Minds of our kids telling them of American Atrocities with a... completely slanted view point

The Military became too powerful and it too with nam first sent kids to die...for greed and a war which began the disillusionment with Govt

The Lawyers split our Parents for profit

It was... all our enemies and from within... doing intentionally or inadvertently by greed the one thing which could screw us

Turning us on each other

"united we stand, divided we fall"

It's not conservatism that makes me say... the Family Unit is No 1

it just is... it's EVERYTHING

Boys without dads often become criminals

Girls without dads often become sluts...

everyone knows this, yet we let lawyers lead this devastation

Small Business IS the Middle class, jobs always were mainly for the poor... yet, we ALLOWED giant corporations to destroy them for convenience

and people thought because the Wall fell we had won

But they weren't paying attention


Because behind PC and behind socialism and the rest...were Marxists, leading the charge from the 60's on...

South American Drug runners to Civil Liberties Lawyers... the legal system was and is run amok with a combination of profiteers and those who simply started the rabble to rabble rouse...

In media, in education, in psychology in Law

FREEDOM was set upon by those... that understood how dangerous freedom can be made to be if used wrongly

Our Freedom was turned on us...

Every one had rights suddenly it was pushed to an extreme that could never work...

Brilliant Really

Your not Happy... (Shrink) You have a right to be happy divorce him

You got hurt: Who's House were you in we can sue (Lawyer)

America actually has a terrible history (teacher) your grandparents aren't who you think they are

In a Million ways the Marxists and to a lesser degree the Islamic thinkers, got at us... turned us on Ourselves, our culture our religion our g-d Our Parents, Our Country

and used FREEDOM as the weapon no one could defend against

Fight back...your an oppressor

Don't fight... Loose your loved ones...

and

many of us fell for it hook line and sinker

we are a nation of fractured families

Our families are our ideals now our divisions

You are a Liberal or a conservative a Junkie or straight edge and atheist or Believer

But ZERO cultural identity among most as AMERICAN

On every level divided

Even our greatest strength

as a people we lived in the here and the now

Other cultures critique our... Culture and History so we relive it...

and now, we are becoming like the rest, or have been Race is an issue again, the war against Natives ruins thanksgiving

We never were much a culture that...lived in the divisions of the past, but when attacked from outside on the issue, we succumb to thinking that is counter productive to the future


Where American Thinking was always "Manifest Destiny" where all that mattered was the Future.

We were told to think about the past and like fools, we listened.

But you get what I am saying.

We have allowed ourselves to fight within and never even looked most of us... at the simple facts... of Who wants us divided and for what purpose.

But, I will say

I believe this generation is at least aware enough of how crappy the last 20-40 years have been and... is going to return to being Americans and is in process of doing so right now

We are as a whole, not nearly as stupid as some would like to think, we learn from our mistakes...

The Largest generation in American history coming up right now ages 10-25
It's .... anger and disgust is evident, these kids... have had to live though this muck.... and know

It's not long now, until this phase of things ends for good

We will, bring it together


















[edit on 11-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Thank you for your long reply.
A * for you and I think that has to be one of the best replies in this thread so far.

There is a similar problem in th UK, everyone looks at their differences and not their similarities, I think many people have much more in common than they realise.

As a fellow gen x person, I understand how you feel; perhaps we should have been called the silent generation. I think the whole gen x thing deserves it's own topic.

So do you think that it's the baby boomers that have screwed it up for everyone else?

I saw this youtube video, I know the person is a bit drunk but I thought what he had to say is appropriate for this thread.

reply to post by lightchild


I really don't know what is so great actually I live in America and I have not found anything that I am proud of, many things that i am not proud of though