Is It Time to Chuck the Internet and Start Over?

Is It Time to Chuck the Internet and Start Over?

discovermagazine.com

Upkeep and patchwork programming continue to make running networks expensive, and cybercrime is flourishing. In response, teams of computer scientists are gathering to form a Manhattan Project of sorts to rethink the Internet.

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Does the U.S. Government Control the Internet?
2012 the year the internet ends

The internet is basically on its own now. I don't think there is any stopping or governing it. If there is an organization in the works to do such a thing, I can't imagine the impossibility. Does it really need re-configuring? Maybe we can just get rid of the idiots on youtube...
You can thank AOL in its first 11yrs for most of the erroneous behavior on the internet.

discovermagazine.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

No thanks... my immediate thought is with all of the Illuminati's latest attempt at tracking cyber information, reporting that government computers are being "hacked" into [yeah...right], and etc, this will be a way they can have compete control over the internet. NOT happening, I'm sticking with this one. The British trying to implement data bank blackboxes.. [we know the UK is a large testing ground for NWO dictatorship plans too].

[edit on 8-11-2008 by -zeropoint-]

To be totally honest we are getting rid of the original Internet and replacing it with a completely new system!
Internet2

you have to remember the original Internet was built on 100 year old telephone technology... well we've long since outgrown those limitations and have started over again from scratch... the day is fast approaching when you'll be able to Download a High Def feature length movue to your computer (4.6 gig) in a mater of seconds...
See more on IT2 here

So while your promise is wrong you are right in that soon the old Internet is gone and we get the big bright shinny new IT2

Originally posted by DaddyBare
To be totally honest we are getting rid of the original Internet and replacing it with a completely new system!
Internet2

you have to remember the original Internet was built on 100 year old telephone technology... well we've long since outgrown those limitations and have started over again from scratch... the day is fast approaching when you'll be able to Download a High Def feature length movue to your computer (4.6 gig) in a mater of seconds...
See more on IT2 here

So while your promise is wrong you are right in that soon the old Internet is gone and we get the big bright shinny new IT2

The problem with people is that they are snobby, but inorder to gain wisdom occassionally input must be accepted from people who are not elite. The new internet (I personally think it all ready exists) will be inferrior to the present internet. Mainly because the present internet has people from all over the spectrum donating for free tons of information and observations . As soon as the new elite internet replaces the old internet ,the elite will begin noticing or maybe they won't notice they have gaps in their intelligence gathering capabilites. Just because the high and mighty shut down the real internet does not mean knowledge among commoners will cease to exist or be exchanged; it just means ,the knowledge will no longer be available to the elites. The elites will become more and more insulated and freakish.



[edit on 8-11-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by DaddyBare

reply to post by DaddyBare

This looks like a project to improve the way we transfer data, which would be great, It doesn't look like it would be replacing our internet though, maybe just some key factors involving security and accessibility. It looks like a giant service pack.

Common practice is unshielded twisted-pair (UTP) according to the specs: •CAT 3 [old] supports 10 Mbps Ethernet (10base-T) •CAT 5 [modern] supports 10base-T, 100 Mbps (100base-TX) and 1000 Mbps (1000base-T) Ethernet •CAT 6 [new] supports CAT 5 applications +

Source
It still uses main stream ethernet cables. I don't think were gonna get to the whole revolution stage until we start seeing something like evanescent lasers for data transfer.

I'm all in favour of changing the way the internet is handled but i don't like the ways suggested,if it did happen it would be run by the same people who want to spy on us 24/7..i like my internet but something has to change sometime

Originally posted by eradown


The problem with people is that they are snobby, but inorder to gain wisdom occassionally input must be accepted from people who are not elite. The new internet (I personally think it all ready exists) will be inferrior to the present internet. Mainly because the present internet has people from all over the spectrum donating for free tons of information and observations . As soon as the new elite internet replaces the old internet ,the elite will begin noticing or maybe they won't notice they have gaps in their intelligence gathering capabilites. Just because the high and mighty shut down the real internet does not mean knowledge among commoners will cease to exist or be exchanged; it just means ,the knowledge will no longer be available to the elites. The elites will become more and more insulated and freakish.

You should read Cult of the Amateur by Andrew Keen. You can see from book reviews how the intellectual elitist's are already reacting to the open internet and sources such as Wikipedia. He is about as large of an a**hole as you will find for an over educated idiot.

These are the people who will make the decisions about what the uneducated, little people will be allowed to have or use with computer networks.

I would like for those of you still following this thread to consider something and tell us your thoughts.

I propose that the op is sound. That in fact, we are in need of a new medium upon which to network our society.

The references to I2, or the 'next' generation of 'internet', are all factual. However, the medium is being 'provided' to us by an infrastructure that is 'owned'. Regardless of the extended bandwidth or more robust protocols and encryption dimensions, it is 'property.' Thus it will (must, in fact) be subject to an authoritative oversight to manage its iterations and monitor its status.

This answer may be 'accepted', but it is hardly what the optimal medium should be. When you and I are sitting side by side in a room, as we speak, we incur no liability other than that which we, the communicators, are willing to accept, and we certainly do not need to 'pay' for the privilege, generally speaking. Importantly, this 'model' also eliminates the actual 'anonymous' intermediary intertwined in the framework enabling control of your communications 'in between' and 'surrounding' the information itself. No 'layered' or 'encapsulated' data transfers removing the actual communicators positive control of data access and manipulation.

This paradigm of 'freedom' in communications has been consistently eroded, and I fear the I2 framework is a further step away from 'freedom' of information control.

Eventually a new, privately accessible technology for information exchange must be 'seized' or developed by an unregulated civilian effort. The software and even hardware infrastructure must be based on a separate and distinct model, rendering it useless for commercial exploitation.

Frankly, this objective is the ideal. I2 doesn't even resist the underlying paradigm of 'control'. A new, public technology, devoid of governmental, ideological, and or commercial 'hooks' must be developed.

Of course, purist would be correct in pointing out that this technology does exist. It's called speech. We just have to keep talking to one another.

Thanks for considering this verbose 'diatribe'.

First off you can't 'shut down' the internet and start again, it was orginally designed so that you can't do that because of military reasons. Secondly, why would we want to replace it, if we were then it would have all sorts of nasty things tacked on 'for security' or for 'our protection'. I.E to spy on us. What we have, while not perfect, at least allows for the possibility of encryption from prying governmental eyes, if we were to revamp + migrate then i doubt sites like this would exist, and another part of our freedom to think would be denied us.

Originally posted by juveous


The internet is basically on its own now. I don't think there is any stopping or governing it. If there is an organization in the works to do such a thing, I can't imagine the impossibility. Does it really need re-configuring? Maybe we can just get rid of the idiots on youtube...
You can thank AOL in its first 11yrs for most of the erroneous behavior on the internet.

discovermagazine.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well, this may come as a big surprise to you, but the Internet is not, and has never been "on it's own", but has been controlled and influenced by many organizations:

Internet Engineering Task Force
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
World Wide Web Consortium
International Organization for Standardization
Internet Engineering Steering Group
The Internet Society.
The Internet Architecture Board
The Internet Research Task Force
World Wide Web Foundation

... and a few others. All of the network protocols and communication methods are standardized by these organizations.

All this new venture wants to do is provide a think tank for these organizations to come up with new standards and governance. For instance, IPv4, the normal 192.168.0.1 IP looking addresses are only 32 bit, and address space is running out under current standards. One of the above groups, The Internet Engineering Task Force, I think, has already designated IPv6, a 128bit address as the successor to the aging IPv6. IPv6 will use hexadecimal and look like this:

0000:1f8b:ffff:1234:5678:47ab:672f:a728

IPv4 was good when the Internet was born, and provided about 4 billion network addresses, but it is running out, mostly because most of the addresses are reserved/private.

IPv6 on the other hand, provides... 340 trillion, trillion, trillion addresses!

Our organization is governed by an executive Board of Trustees and strategic councils consisting of leaders who represent our broad membership.

more than 200 U.S. universities in cooperation with 70 leading corporations, 45 government agencies, laboratories and other institutions of higher learning as well as over 50 international partner organizations.

source

even if I2 is the applicant for change (which imo isn't anything too special)
how do you get rid of the existing one? - or will we just have 2?

reply to post by Daddybear


DaddyBear, while you got the right idea you have things mixed. Internet2 is a project for universities and schools to have connections between each other at 100MB/S. You're thinking of Web 2.0. What I think is the scariest thing they are discussing, which we are on the cusp of, is cloud computing.

Here is one of the first cloud computers available.
www.nimbuscc.com...
Essentially you'd be storing all your data, and trusting it, to a data warehouse. Not only leading to concerns about privacy, in my opinion, but the real 'Hackers' gaining access. The only games you could play is ones that could be streamed seamlessly to your computer, where a lot of the processing power would be done on there end then the video would be filtered to you. It's fairly impressive stuff technologically.
Information technology, databases and networking, are my work so any other questions feel free to U2U me and ask.

Edit: for directing this at the wrong person =x, DOH.

[edit on 8-11-2008 by djpaec]

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by juveous


The internet is basically on its own now. I don't think there is any stopping or governing it. If there is an organization in the works to do such a thing, I can't imagine the impossibility. Does it really need re-configuring? Maybe we can just get rid of the idiots on youtube...
You can thank AOL in its first 11yrs for most of the erroneous behavior on the internet.

discovermagazine.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well, this may come as a big surprise to you, but the Internet is not, and has never been "on it's own", but has been controlled and influenced by many organizations:

Internet Engineering Task Force
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
World Wide Web Consortium
International Organization for Standardization
Internet Engineering Steering Group
The Internet Society.
The Internet Architecture Board
The Internet Research Task Force
World Wide Web Foundation
... and a few others. All of the network protocols and communication methods are standardized by these organizations.

What I meant was, the information that comes and go's on the internet is only regulated to a certain extent, (i know it doesn't have free will) as you know, emails and uploads can be deleted or taken down, but nothing is stopping the upload, - nothing is previewing it before its on display, (speaking in generalities) and that's why there are so many problems today, but its that freedom that some people are afraid would be taken away by any organization that wants to rethink the internet.

There already is a replacement in the works. Its called the GRID. I'd post on here about but there is too much information. Just google it. It will replace the internet and will make the internet look antiquated in comparison. Supposedly its already being used and will be brought up in stages.

The problem with the new Internet 2 is control. They want to be able to decide what websites you are able to go to, and currently the way the internet is it makes the overhead so large in terms of spying on citizens that its really not that feasible.

If the government was to create a new internet, I still think the old internet would thrive in the underground - even if we had to use dial-up modems again. I could see the new internet not allowing things such as encryption, which is right now our only defense to a ever more encompassing government.

As for constantly having to patch and upgrade the internet as one of the arguments - good. I welcome evolution of technology and would hate to have a set in stone internet2 that is left to stagnate over the years. I think the contributions from the worlds programmers are paramount to a successful internet model. Open source software has proved this many times, where as proprietary code is often riddled with bugs and security holes due to the unsecure programming practices of the workers.

I like how the internet is now - in the future with these new internets, you could be damn sure there will be no more ATS - they will control what you learn, and how you learn it. Imagine that, total control over what you know - its a government wet dream.

I

Originally posted by juveous

What I meant was, the information that comes and go's on the internet is only regulated to a certain extent, (i know it doesn't have free will) as you know, emails and uploads can be deleted or taken down, but nothing is stopping the upload, - nothing is previewing it before its on display, (speaking in generalities) and that's why there are so many problems today, but its that freedom that some people are afraid would be taken away by any organization that wants to rethink the internet.

The upload doesn't really matter. If the data doesn't go anywhere, it will just time out eventually. Routers have something called packet filtering that throws away packets based on address, port number and/or protocol, so they essentially "stop the upload" from reaching the computer system it was designated for. Some IPs filter and throttle down transmissions of BitTorrent uploads/downloads based on certain characteristics after analyzing packet flow and finding certain patterns.

I doubt this think tank is concerned with putting something like content filtering on the network level though. It would be pretty stupid and wasteful to include chips in routers that scanned for and filtered out curse words or objectionable material.

They'll be focusing more on better authentication services, more efficient protocols, upgraded standards and things like that. One example, the SMTP protocol (simple mail transfer protocol) is pretty insecure but is THE de facto standard protocol for sending most of the net's mail, and what is allowing all of the SPAM run around the Internet. There is virtually no way to verify who exactly is sending the email. You can actually login to just about any SMTP server on port 25 with a telnet application and send an email from whichever address you type in by typing this:

HELO
MAIL FROM:
RCPT TO:
DATA
( put message here )
QUIT

There is a version of SMTP that requires password authentication, but once you supply the password, you can still send email from any fake address you want so spammers just brute force it, or just create their own email servers... and spam takes up about 95% of all email so it's a big problem.

With the GRID, cloud computing will be possible which is the way things are headed anyway. This will just make it easier. Here is a little more info:

"The Internet could soon be made obsolete. That network, in effect a parallel Internet, is now built, using fibre optic cables that run from Cern to 11 centres in the United States, Canada, the Far East, Europe and around the world.

At speeds about 10,000 times faster than a typical broadband connection, “the grid” will be able to send the entire Rolling Stones back catalogue from Britain to Japan in less than two seconds.

The latest spin-off from Cern, the particle physics centre that created the web, the grid could also provide the kind of power needed to transmit holographic images; allow instant online gaming with hundreds of thousands of players; and offer high-definition video telephony for the price of a local call."

www.foxnews.com...