Originally posted by Velvet Death
Japan was stupid. They should have surrendered when Germany went down. They wanted to fight to the last man, woman and child so they had to be shown they were really defeated. We could have landed troops and achieved the same thing but at the cost of many allied lives. To that end it saved more lives that it took.

That's an interesting way of rationalizing the massive murdering of civilians.

So the most moral thing to of happened was for more innocent children to of died, if it meant more American soldiers would have lived. What a heart.

Originally posted by captiva
Why dont we just feed those who are starving, clothe those who are freezing and cure those who are ill !.

While we are at it lets make sure every new baby has the chance to live past their 5th birthday and lets eradicate cancer with the means we already have to do it. Next, lets use the money that is spent maintaining the nuclear arsenals of the world, on returning the earth to the way it should be, green and growing.

We're already doing such a good job of feeding people, fighting disease, and keeping people alive that it won't be long until we're overpopulating ourselves to death. I would rather have people invest money in figuring out a way to control population without starvation or war or natural disasters until we can determine the most comfortable carrying capacity for the planet (not necesssarily the same as the absolute maximum number of people we can squeeze on).

But, again, you'll run into the people who think their crazy god will be mad at them if they don't crank out as many children as they possibly can, and will fight you to the death over it. So we're back fighting again.

D'oh!

i would rather have 100million strangers die then any member of my family. so you know what i rather save american soldiers and bomb a country that was at war with us.

nukes are okay with me

I believe George S Patton said it best, "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."

All I can say to that is Amen!

Originally posted by Velvet Death
I believe George S Patton said it best, "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."

All I can say to that is Amen!

damn right. why should we have to risk our own guys when we have a perfect weapon to minimize OUR casualties.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
That's an interesting way of rationalizing the massive murdering of civilians.

So the most moral thing to of happened was for more innocent children to of died, if it meant more American soldiers would have lived. What a heart.

No, it meant that more JAPANESE would have lived as well. Have you been to Saipan and SEEN the family shrines where the Japanese threw themselves off the cliffs because they KNEW the US Marines were going to rape and murder them? Their country taught them that the US soldiers were barbarians and would kill them all. They would have fought to the bitter end, and Japan would have been annihilated.

As for how many people the atomic bombs killed, I suggest you look up the fire bombings that took place before the atomic bombs were dropped. Fire bombing killed more people than the Bombs did. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen because they were MILITARY targets. Yes they had civilians living there, but they were large military facilities.

Originally posted by Velvet Death
Japan was stupid. They should have surrendered when Germany went down. They wanted to fight to the last man, woman and child so they had to be shown they were really defeated. We could have landed troops and achieved the same thing but at the cost of many allied lives. To that end it saved more lives that it took.

Who are you to make that decision. They have pride just like any country so surrendering wasn't their first choice. You have no idea how angry I am that you just come out saying that they were stupid, YOU are stupid. They were patriotic, and willing to fight to the last men, since when did qualities became a bad thing.
And I gotta tell you, I don't know what the right decision was, but dropping a bomb and killing children and mothers and innocent humans was NOT it. Some people are just too ignorant to put themselves at their place, thats all you gotta do really to see how pathetic we have become as beings of Earth. Imagine that was your family, your mother, your father living their lives peacefully and being wiped out within secounds. Your opinion ust wouldn't be the same.

Originally posted by West Coast


Would it make you feel any safer if everyone were allowed to develop nukes?

[edit on 7-11-2008 by West Coast]

See this is exactly whats wrong with the American world police mentality. We have nukes, and we believe we have the right to say which country has the right to develop nukes? Don't you see that this only causes tension among countries and separation, which leads to hatred and ultimately and i believe UNDOUBTEDLY wars!
You want to tell a country to stop nuke development, FINE don't have them yourself. Plain and simple. WE ARE NOT SPECIAL!

babies grow to be terrorist. but thats besides the point. the point is that we need to protect our own. our own people. our brothers our sisters our parents. we shouldnt care about the people who have the ability to do harm to us. why should we care about countries or people in the countries that clearly dont like us or our views.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
No, it meant that more JAPANESE would have lived as well. Have you been to Saipan and SEEN the family shrines where the Japanese threw themselves off the cliffs because they KNEW the US Marines were going to rape and murder them? Their country taught them that the US soldiers were barbarians and would kill them all. They would have fought to the bitter end, and Japan would have been annihilated.

Perhaps so, but that outcome is purely speculative.

As for how many people the atomic bombs killed, I suggest you look up the fire bombings that took place before the atomic bombs were dropped. Fire bombing killed more people than the Bombs did.

Thank you, I will now actually. Half my points have not been focused around nukes themselves but the killing of innocents.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen because they were MILITARY targets. Yes they had civilians living there, but they were large military facilities.

Right, I understood that. There could have been worse targets in regards to the loss of innocent civilian life.

Originally posted by Redneck from Hell
They were patriotic, and willing to fight to the last men, since when did qualities became a bad thing.
And I gotta tell you, I don't know what the right decision was, but dropping a bomb and killing children and mothers and innocent humans was NOT it. Some people are just too ignorant to put themselves at their place, thats all you gotta do really to see how pathetic we have become as beings of Earth. Imagine that was your family, your mother, your father living their lives peacefully and being wiped out within secounds. Your opinion ust wouldn't be the same.

So you prefered that we went in and shot them instead? Japan was not going to fight to the last man, they were going to fight to the last man, woman, and child. They were training women with weapons similar to the Naginata to fight American troops. Pilots as young as their early teens were flying Kamikaze missions. No matter how you think we should have fought them, it would have resulted in massive civilian casualties. If we went in with troops it would have resulted in millions dead, just in SOLDIERS. The civilian count would have been horrifying and I shudder to even consider what it would have been like.

Originally posted by N. Tesla
babies grow to be terrorist. but thats besides the point. the point is that we need to protect our own. our own people. our brothers our sisters our parents. we shouldnt care about the people who have the ability to do harm to us. why should we care about countries or people in the countries that clearly dont like us or our views.

Wow, just wow. It's people like you that will bring this wourld to ruin.
Babies don't grow to be terrorists by devine powers, it's all a result of the trickle down effect of all the wrong people are doing. It would be impossible for me to explain it here, put don't you realize that they think the same way about us? That we grow up to be devils or whatever the hell.

How long do you think this mentality is going to last. That whole you don't like us we don't like you, you shoot me we shoot you. Thats just separation for Gods sake.
We are just beings living on this tiny piece of S*** of a planet, all it takes is an outsiede force like aliens, and we'd all be on the same team, team EARTH.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Perhaps so, but that outcome is purely speculative.

No, it really isn't. The Japanese themselves wrote about their preparations to fight against the American invaders. They showed US troops training centers, and showed them the women using any weapon they could get fighting dummies and their preparations. They proved that they were ready to fight if necessary, but the Emperor told them to surrender and his word was law.

If nuke tech was allowed to be developed in say Iran it wouldn't be long before they shared it with others. Right now the Palestinians attack Israel with a weapon they called the F-11. That's a bomb delivered by two human legs. It can be manufactured at even lower expense. It can be aimed. It produces terror because its indiscriminant attacks on civilians, women and children are a matter of choice, not a limitation of the weapon. It is more efficient, more accurate and of less expense to the aggressor. If they have a small nuke that could be carried by an F-11 they would use it. So no nukes for the nutty arabs.