Parents: are you okay with the school influencing your child's political view?

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
i don't want things getting harder for my son because of how i would be perceived after my first visit.

That's why I haven't gone to the school yet... Obviously I need to soon, I just don't want the teacher to take it out on my son if I go in there ticked off over the situation. I've already had to call and talk to her twice, and go in for a meeting with her and the principal once this year over other issues within the first two months of school. So I just know if I go in there or call too many more times he is going to end up getting the short end of the stick.

Originally posted by asmeone2 Okay JM. I want to ask as non-critically as possible, how come you didn't talk to your children about the political candidates?

While I agree that teacher overstepped her boundaries, I am curious why you didnt' discuss it with him yourself?

He might not understand every issue or the historical backdrops for them, but he could certainly understand them well enough to choose for himself if you helpe dhim understrand the election in simplistic issues, and to give him the strength to vote how he wants no matter what his teacher says.

I agree wholly with your choose-for-yourself philosophy but the difficult part in implementing that is remaining umbiased enough to let your children choose what they want, even if it is not what you would have wanted.

If it were my kid I woul dhave sat him down and talked about the issues and help your child to understand that he should choose based on his values, not because someone intimidates him.

I would absolutely speak to the teacher and the school management if she indeed tried to tell the kids who to vote for, but realize that there will always be someone trying to tell your kids what to beleive. You can't shield them from that--it's better, IMO, to give them the strength to stand up for themselves.

Your question kind of stumped me, not so much the answer to it as how to answer it so that the "why" is understood.

I guess the only way to explain my view is to ask you to look through the 2008 election threads. It should be obvious to you why I would not introduce individual people to them w/out them first having a good grasp on values.

I feel that if I teach them values rather than people "claiming" values, they might be harder to deceive. Seems like it would work, in theory anyway. lol First time raising kids, but I was raised by some pretty damn good kid raisers so hopefully I have a bit of a clue as to what I am doing haha Guess time will tell. *shrugs*

reply to post by Ellipsis


I do agree with this to certain extent and have always been pretty open with their teachers as to how I feel in regards about what my boys are learning.

I think ultimately it will have to come down to me homeschooling in order to ensure they are not being swayed through manipulation (whether intentional or unintentional... I know this most recent incident was most likely the latter).

I just wanted to see what was on everyone else's mind concerning these types of incidents and I guess ultimately, to know that I wasn't alone in facing these kind of things.

I appreciate all the input and understand all the points that have been brought here. Just a very good feeling to know that this is something that parents do think and care about.

We had a teachers aid in our area get asked by a 2nd grader about Obama and the aid spent 10 minutes talking about Obama being asassinated to 5-6 kids in the group. Some other aids heard the aid and made a complaint. The whole school is in an uproar over it. Some people realy should not be around kids. And teachers should keep their opinions about political points of view to themselves. Teach how to elect but leave the choice to the kids!

Zindo

reply to post by justamomma


I can understand your point of view. Hopefully I didn't come off as insinuating that you were negligent because I know you care very much for your kids


And I've never met your kids so I don't know exactly how you would do this, but I think you could find a way to discuss politics with them without really getting into the "rights" or "wrongs" of the issues. For instance sit them down, tell them it is an election year, and tell them that it is their right to choose what they want to vote for and they are very lucky to have that, and they have to not let anyone take that waay from them

(from here on out "you" refers to everyone in genera)

I heard a quote that stuck with me though... it was pro-life propaganda saying "If you don't educate your kids about sex then the world certainly will."
.

And while I didn't agree with the views they were espousing I thougth that was a very astute thing to say and could be applied to almost anything.

Kids are not deaf and stupid... If you don't teach your kids about X, they will pick up their own tidbits about X from people around them.

Like with religion for example... I want to instill in my children very early that they need to avoid being frightened or goaded into any faith, that it should come from their own experiences, because I know that is something they will face.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by asmeone2]

reply to post by asmeone2



As always, I took your question as one made out of curiosity and not condescending. There is so much that goes into my reasoning for not focusing on any individual candidates. One thing for sure, being the political junkie that I am, I certainly did not make the decision lightly. I just don't think that going into the reasoning would serve much point since it really is a decision that each parent needs to make according to their individual children.

It was a gut feeling based on what I felt from the "dubbya" election years. It is so easy to be deceived and I would be each and every time if i hadn't received proper education values and gut instincts first.

My boys KNEW that a big decision for the President of our country was being made by the adults and I take issues and discuss that with them by bringing it up appropriately in everyday activities. To me, they could have voted for Obama this year and been in the right even though I don't support Obama's stances personally... but they could have seen that Obama was humble and chose to vote for that reason and I would have been proud of them.

I want them voting from their heart. They know there are systems, what are system was meant to be, what it is now and they could immediately tell you who was president and what good AND bad they see in him. They can now tell you the name of our newest president and that what system of gov't that he leans toward slightly in some issues, and why it is necessary but how it could hurt us if we are not careful.

They can tell you that history was made and the even picked up on the obvious signs that obama had been crying (something most ppl missed i guess). They can tell you that Obama is a happy guy.

But why do I want to expose them to the decision process before they understand what it is we are deciding? I don't know about everyone else, but I am not voting a man into office, I am voting values and principles in.

Originally posted by justamomma

A value that is part of me, passed down through my family line, and being of the upmost importance to me is remembering that we are individual free thinkers that contribute our perspective in this world. For this reason, I want my children to understand fully the pros and cons of every type of governing system so that they can understand which ones allow for individual growth and free expression.

(...)

Originally posted by justamomma
SO, imagine my surprise when....

So imagine my surprise when....

During an unneccesary political debate at the family volunteer center, just the other day, in a totally Obama proactive crowd, the following occurred:

My child's mentor, this wonderful, wonderful woman, turns to him on vote day, his first vote day, with a finger pointing and a resolved voice, and states, "Your Voting For Obama".

For all the love I have for this She-Thing, I likely wanted to pop her in her mouth.

On principal.

One's panic to see one's views occur, blinding over the lessons of freedom to decide based on merit. Which in my mind was Obama, but that's not my point.

It were that in the very moment where the 'smart people' should have been saying, "Vote for who you think is right"; the borg set of "Who we want to win" was set forth.

Would he have come to that conclusion himself?
I'll never know. It appears his freedom of choice were stolen. Some would say a small price to pay for who 'we' want in office.
What of the essence of freedom 'we' want our citizens to embrace?

The freedom to want what 'we' want?
Or the freedom to want what you want and that is great if it is what 'we' want too..

Diversity is a can of worms if untrue to itself.
So...I see what you mean.

I have no problem with a mock election. Sounds like fun.

The teacher, however, needs to keep her political biases at home.

I feel as though this election was rigged from the very beginning to preventing war retaliation at any cost. Just an opinion. Bush did the damage, he'll be the scapegoat, we all applauded him in the beginning. We're crucifying him now. But the point is, our country messed up, as a whole, and now we face the consequences of our actions. And who better to put at our lead than someone like Barrack Obama, the one who so strongly opposes the war, unlike McCain(who represents all that Bush stood for)...what a big show(wonder if they bought it).

And to make sure our kids inform any parents NOT paying attention, teachers DID have much to say that influenced each and every student in school.
Here is what issues my child's teacher felt were the only issues relevant to the election, a paper my son brought home:

I wondered why my son was so pro Obama, I never told him my choice until the last week, and his dad voted McCain.

I wanted Obama to win anyway, but the methods were unfair.

reply to post by mmariebored


That condensed form may include topics already discussed in class. Even if not, seems like topics comprehensive enough for a middle school or high school student to understand and topics didn't appear to be "moral-based."

As a school administrator, I would be interested in learning more about the documents used, discussions conducted, and analysis that the students were to create.

No I am not ok with it. Both of my kids have gotten into trouble by not saying the Pledge of Alligance. I dont think that they should be made to say this. both kids are very anti war and have an"inheriated" distrust of goverment. Could be because they watched the IRS take every cent we had and I had to borrow money from family just to eat.The part of the allegiance "One nation under God" contributes to their unwillingness to say it too. They are free to worship who they want. At the age of 42 I still dont know if there is a God. Why would they when they are still in school.I can get the need to learn about the politcal process but I would be really pissed if a teacher starting spouting their choices.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by fromtheheart66]

reply to post by fromtheheart66


This is a tough issue because of the reference to "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

In the State of Missouri, we are required by state law to recite the Pledge every morning. To comply with state law, I have a different elementary student lead the Pledge over our school intercom. In our K-12 school, I do not punish any student/adult for not participating.

In my administrative opinion, it is to each individual to decide if they wish to participate.

reply to post by MOFreemason

He's younger than that.

I get all of his papers. This was the only paper on the election, I sort through them maticulously. I know there are probably some teachers in certain schools who leaned towards McCain, but I doubt we'll hear much on them and I doubt there's a lot of them. This election was a battlefield that even hit our schools. That's all I'm saying.

reply to post by mmariebored


I definitely wasn't saying you were in the wrong...just stating an initial reaction based solely on the paper.

You are absolutely correct by saying the emotions carried over into so many "sacred" locations, including our nation's classrooms. I am often worried about political discourse discussed in my classrooms because a teacher must be very careful facilitating a conversation and sharing information.

Our youth can be so vulnerable to those they learn from and hopefully behold with great respect.

reply to post by MOFreemason


It was the fact that it was the only paper on election issues that was sent home. As you can see, it's very much incomplete. It seemed to me to be done on purpose to guide voting opinion of less informed parents. Regardless of how the issues were elaborated at school.

reply to post by mmariebored


I don't want to bash Obama, particularly since he will be our president and has not proven himself... I am definately willing to see what he can do.

However, a bit off topic but wanted to reply to your post, I am not so sure that he is opposed to the war. How ppl are arriving to this conclusion seems to indicate that the public can easily be duped simply by being vague. Still, this is not the point....

I am fine with adults wanting to vote for him, but I want my children to understand first and foremost that they are not voting for men in and of themselves, but rather they should be voting for the person they see as representing most closely the values this country was founded on.

Politics have absolutely no place in the classroom.

I trust that my children will be taught about how our political system is supposed to work. If the teachers want to talk about presidents and candidates, keep it neutral. The classroom podium is not a pulpit. Teachers are not preachers and they are certainly not politicians. Additionally, many teachers tend to bend to the left and may show some of their bias if given the leeway to do so.

Originally posted by fromtheheart66 No I am not ok with it. Both of my kids have gotten into trouble by not saying the Pledge of Alligance. I dont think that they should be made to say this. both kids are very anti war and have an"inheriated" distrust of goverment. Could be because they watched the IRS take every cent we had and I had to borrow money from family just to eat.The part of the allegiance "One nation under God" contributes to their unwillingness to say it too. They are free to worship who they want. At the age of 42 I still dont know if there is a God. Why would they when they are still in school.I can get the need to learn about the politcal process but I would be really pissed if a teacher starting spouting their choices.

Wow, I feel like this is me talking lol. I am the same way with the pledge of allegiance.
The list I gave the school for my reasons of not wanting my kids to participate are as follows:

1. The pledge of allegiance was created by a socialist baptist preacher at the end of the 19th century who wanted to see this country given over completely to the socialist system.

2. The pledge of allegiance was implemented into the school systems for just the above reason... ironically at the same time that hitler was in power or right after (can't remember off hand the exact year).

3. A pledge said over and over defeats the whole purpose of taking a pledge and in the end, makes pledges a mundane thing when young children are made to do it daily.

4. How is pledging allegiance to an object even considered a show of loyalty to the country?

5. What does a country consist of anyway to make one want to be loyal? To me, my family and friends are my country and they have my loyalty 100% of the time w/out question..... the president, the country as a whole, and certainly a piece of material do not.

I just feel that the pledge of allegiance and the idea behind it and what is taught is nationalism and I don't think it is a safe route to teach my children to be objective in their loyalty. As has been seen, a president will not always have the individuals best interest at heart and I'll be damned if I teach my kids that going overseas to die for a rich man's personal agenda is showing loyalty to one's country.

I am hardcore on this issue as the schools have learned. At their old school, even though I was somewhat accomidated in that I could bring them after the pledge was said, it was counted against them as tardies (which was fine with me... I care more about their values than conforming to "fit in" with society) and I was having to go and back forth with the school board in order for it to not be counted against them. Not going through that with the new school, where they simply said they understood and would take the boys out of the room during the pledge.

But, speaking of the former school, I find it utterly ridiculous and scary that I have to appeal to a "board" concerning my children and the values that we hold to.

when I was transitioning my children into the new school, I kept boys home for 3 days. I did this because I love my sons and felt that between school and their dad taking them every other weekend, I was missing out on so much of their formative years. I want to be there for everything and watch and help them to develop into the decent young men they are learning to be. So, I kept them home 3 days to spend some good quality time with the children that I helped bring into this world.

On the 3rd day (a friday), an officer came to my door. when I opened the door, he told me that the school (the one I pulled them out of) called him because they called the new school only to find out I hadn't sent them yet.... which I had informed the new school that i was keeping them and starting them out on a Monday and they were fine with this and in fact encouraged it.
So, they called the cop to come and "check" to make sure the boys were okay. Can you imagine if a parent called the cops on a school to "check" and make sure the children were okay? Most likely the phone would hang up in your ear.

I told the officer as politely as I could that I appreciated the fact he was doing his job but that it is a SAD SAD state of affairs when they agree to come check on a child simply because the parent wanted to spend time with them. Fortunately for the officer lol, he agreed and actually commended me for doing such. I called the school and told them that it was this blatant disrespect for me as the parent that led me to the conclusion that their school, which I once appreciated and felt at ease with, was no longer right for my children.

*I* am the parent, NOT the school... however, it seems to be becoming a relative view in this day and age and that the school's relative view is THEY are the ones responsible for the child's well being and that we, the parents are not capable of having complete say so in their lives.

*sighs* I see clearly that we are losing the minds of our children and although it hasn't become apparent, I wonder how apparent it will be when they are our age and making the decisions. Will we (speaking generally here) realize too late that maybe we were deceived in giving away the most important years of their lives.. the years that will shape the view of the world?

I believe it is the duty of the parent to provide knowledge to their children and at five years of age you should of discussed the election with him. It's also good to have communications between you and the teacher so you know what's going on. The best influence a child can have is their parent if it's done correctly. You should also let your children know that they have a voice and can choose for themselves. I hope you talk to your child and voice your opinion to what happened and that a teacher is not always right and sometimes a parent isn't either.

reply to post by mmariebored


It could also have been created by an uninformed class or worse yet, instructor.

It may have never been intended to be a "voting guide." I wouldn't give too much credit to this instructor just yet.