Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

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posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by Komodo
 


And people didn't believe this would happen under a completely controlled Democrat government.

By the time they are done, if they have their way, they will own everything.

Everything.

Hey, congratulation on voting in Obama again everyone!

Excellent choice!


well i had a friend lose 40k out of a 150k account, that she was initially told was safe. so in your rational world, i guess this was caused by the democrats who have a slim majority in the senate, with a republican minority that filibutered laws into oblivion 46 times in the last 21 months.
i guess your republican wall street boys or the republican president for the last 8 years or a republican majority for 6 years, had nothing to do with this right??? and by the way...was this even voted on? or passed?

you republicans are the ones to blame for this economic disaster and that's why the people kicked you out. republicans have become the cancerous, viscid, pustual, growth on the heart of this nation and no amount of verbal vomit coming out of your mouth has any significance, or truthfulness. you have become the vile brown stain on this country and i hope we never have a neo-con majority again.




posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:50 AM
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What can I say ????

Don't cheap out !!!!!

Withdraw your 401k's, pay the penalty, and buy gold coins and stash them.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:09 AM
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They have hearings on a lot of things in congress and discuss even more. Little of what they talk about ever comes close to becoming law so take a sedative and call me in the morning... you are all getting a little overheated over this.

If someone drafted a law that would actually be voted on then get concerned and call your congresspeople. Other than that it is nothing but hot headed speculation.

All that being said... I read the article in question and this thought comes to mind...

would you prefer your retirement account to be decimated by a market in freefall thanks to a pack fo greedy suits or would you prefer it to be in a protected account?

Because that is basically what they were talking about.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Kaiser Sohse

Throughout the Presidential campaigns, there was only one side that resorted to slinging mud.


He didn't sling enough, but that's my opinion, where YOUR opinion is amusing is that YOU actually believe ONLY ONE SIDE was linging mud during the entire campaign. I guess it's because the whole time Obama who had spent an unprecedented amount of money on negative attack ads , YOU just saw those ads as ?? Truth?



One side was on the constant attack, and one side was above the pettiness that a race of this magnitude could bring on.


Above the pettiness? (Gulp) umm yeah sure he was above the pettiness because this guy didn't do it petty, NOOOO He went all out employing the assistance of Black Panthers and using all kinds of deceptions from voter registration fraud to voter fraud busing in people from other states, We saw mr NOT petty, go back on his word, one of the many times we will be seeing that I'm sure, we saw him getting caught taking funds from very questionable sources, we saw him using all sorts of silly little cloak and dagger subterfuge and stone walling tactics where to this day no one has been able to resolve the BC issue. Obama ran one of the most filthy dirty campaigns in history BAR NONE

Oh he stooped to that level all right and when it comes to being heartless cold and ruthless, OBAMA has them all beat with the infants born alive act.

When it comes to who he looked up to? Ya just can't beat as class an act as ole Jeremiah GD America, Wright. When it comes to anything surrounding that guy, all you see are sealed documents, excuses about our using to "Politics of Distraction" then NOT answering yet another



Now that the race is over, it is no surprise to me that the mud-slinging continues in epic proportions. I used to come to this website for info on various "alternative" topics, but now, I can always garauntee that when I arrive the board will be flooded with with right-wing fear and aggression
.

Hey what do you think we had to listen to for eight years?

Obama ain't even president yet and he has lied more and threatens the Constitution more then "W" already.
Do me the honor before you flame me....just count.


Count how many threads are on this site damning President Elect Obama and "his Democrats" before he has even spent one solitary day in office? The numbers are staggering.


PffffT Yeah and just what is "Staggering"



But you know what? One thing this race has proven is that when a man can raise his head high, and be strong and confident in the face of adversity, people (and I mean lots of effing people people!) will respect you.


Adversity! HA HA HA HA John McCain should have been so tested by that kind of adversity! Ha ha John McCain should have had so many in the media acting as his bitch like Obama did. McCain should have treated so rough on the View and just about every television news and entertainment broadcast. McCain should have BEEN so mistreated keeping his word to the form of financing he had the integrity and character to keep his word

Get over yourself guy, Obama, is a sleazball product of the Daley Chicago Political Machine who is very well connected.


[edit on 8-11-2008 by MAINTAL]



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by badgerprints

We're about to hand our entire livelihoods over to the government and the tv numbed idiots will cheer when it happens.


welcome to my world...been handing our livelihoods over to the gov't my entire adult life...to benefit the poor, or to benefit the rich....

as I read through the posts, I got the feeling that what is being proposed is that people be given the OPTION to transfer those IRA's into something they are HOPING might be a little more secure....what is their option now? either keep their money in the IRA's and well, watch it get decimated as the stock values keep dropping, and they are gonna keep dropping....or they can take the money out early and get nailed with some nice taxes?
some options there!

but, it would be your option....if you are young, and have plenty of time for this economic cycle to spin around in your favor, will fine, don't take it...
but, there's many out there that don't have the luxury of waiting around for it to spin around...they are watching their retirement savings dwindle away because of a scam that was perpetrated onto the american people!

and as far as the idea of the tax incentive, what happened to all that "it's a free market", and "the bad government wants to control our every move"..bit?
isn't this tax incentive just another way the gov't chose to control just how we used our own money? maybe I wanted just to stash my saving in my mattress for that rainy day when I couldn't work anylonger.....where was my tax exemption for that one? matter of fact, for many of us, well, we've been just working hard to keep up with Jones' that are being given their livelihoods from that fine government....I am sorry, but when you are laying in a bed with a splint trying desparately to come up with this outrageous sum for a down payment for the operation that will help you keep working, or moving out of that hud subsidized housing into housing that hud won't even touch...when you are trying to feed a family on $30 a week while the gov't is giving the neighbors around you with the same family size $100 a week, well, you have more important issues to worry about than you retirement savings! were were the tax exemptions then? heck, we were paying more taxes so you could enjoy your tax exemptions!!

here's my suggestion,,,,
do away with social security and that tax that goes with it....
do away with the hud subsidized housing, the food stamps, the heap, the aid to dependant children, chips, medicaid, medicare and such....and the massive payroll that goes with it.
do away with all the tax loopholes, special exemptions, ect...
set up one agency to ensure that those that truly need help will get help in such a way that the value of the help that they give never goes above the value the money that the people they turn away are earning....just the bare bones for aid!
do something with that monstroisity that the healthcare has grown into, the costs needs to be a heck of alot less, or this alone will bring our country down! and turn off the tax siphon to it!
and then trim that budget down to the bare bones also!
another suggestion I would make is......
quit with the blame game, quit with the lying about the crap, quit with the scapegoating, try to find the truth...
as long as all this is going on, there is no way to clearly see the problems...if the american people don 't clearly see the problems, there is no hope that the solution will ever come about!

the governement needs more money, they can't borrow it forever and ignore the debt.....they are gonna be looking at every avenue they can find to find it! if justice is to reign, then we will all be hurt by it because well, the burden will be shared by all of us, if the usual special interests are served, well....I for one, will be totally screwed out of existance!


[edit on 8-11-2008 by dawnstar]



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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I'm saying it right NOW! If this comes to fruition and Obama signs this into law, he will have just signed his death certificate along with it. Everyone here knows there is a large number of people in this country that don't like blacks, and are looking for a good reason to pull the trigger. This would be their ticket, and we all know the outcome of what that brings. I'm glad i live in the country and have some escapablility if things get crazy, but I do have family members in a metropolitan area. Any way you look at this whole cenerio, it doesn't look good.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


I say, invest in GOLD and a Home Safe, because anything under control of the BANKS is subject to be taken from you at anytime.

Banks are poised to take everything from us and re-distribute it as they see fit (or more like they are TOLD to) by the US Government, once they do there will be no taking it back, but if YOU keep control of your own, they cannot take it from you!



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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I seem to recall a campaign "promise" where Obama said he was going to eliminate the early penalty withdrawal on 401K if you didn't withdraw more than $10,000. I don't have a 401k so it's not my problem, I wonder how this will play out?

[edit on 8-11-2008 by Kingsryche]

[edit on 8-11-2008 by Kingsryche]



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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foreign buyers for gov't debt are slowly dissapearing

and a way to wipe out the gov'ts entitlement programs such as retirement funds is to Persuade and maniplulate people into thinking it's a good idea to put there saving investment's into vehicle which will be used to temporarily buy (bump up the falling demand) for U.S gov't bonds i.e debt and then years later the entitlement programs will be paid off with near worthless dollars

minus a debt "jubilee" i.e debt forgiveness the country will go into an economic depression, and then the currency will be devalued into near worthlessness. a massive jobs program will be needed to rebuild america's energy infrastructure as well, i believe obama/congress will be allowed to do this...some of the unemployed will be needed to be put to work to stave off widespread social unrest while another portion may end up behind bars should they re-write the debtor laws to increase the severity of charges for non-payment of debt (the prison system is big business in the u.s.a)

for all the hope obama instills, he is still a politican, and he is kept on a leash by the money masters, the debt overhand of this country, threatens to strangle it to death (led by the Paulson clan of parasitic bankers and there efforts to prolong the leeching of the american public thru phoney bailouts r e a d giveaways) and the banking /creditor lobbyists paying off there puppets in congress ( i.e Dodd, Frank, etc) .

unless Obama and his advisors can find away to FORGIVE /Writedown the DEBT of the american public we will have a deepening recession ( consumer spending plunge that increases the unemployment level and then spirals down in a reinforcing cycle which would lead us deep into economic depression. It is building to that point. Debt Jubillee and a economic recovery or DEBT slaves NWO style. Let's truly see what obama can/ is allowed to do............... or will he just be a cheerleader to keep america's spirits high while our money is stolen and then devalued and we are left in bread lines or debtor prisons/fema camps.

Either way the dollar prob. won't be saved.......but remember in the hisotry of the civilized world's banking system's (3000 plus years) all hundreds of fiat currency's have come and gone, why would you expect (except being ignorant) the dollar be any different in the end.

here's praying for a jubilee



[edit on 8-11-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by grover
 



your right,
a IRA/401k account holder can opt to participate in a gov't run fund, OR can continue their individual account---there is no confiscation per se...


even if this gov't managed fund, its the same managers that are presently doing the retirements for federal employees... with the same % losses as the rest of the market...
~so there is no 'trading Up' as it were~, one is only opting for that 3% window of opportunity that a gov't sponsered account would offer...
or the min. of $600 pr yr which a minimum wage earner could not afford to contribute in any event... so the account would 'grow' at a negative rate because inflation is going to eat up that whole $600 contribution.


its all another scheme of 'smoke and mirrors' imho,
i will hold on to my own, individual ROTH IRA, whether i lose or gain in the long run.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Kaiser Sohse
 





Throughout the Presidential campaigns, there was only one side that resorted to slinging mud. One side was on the constant attack, and one side was above the pettiness that a race of this magnitude could bring on.

And guess what? One side won (go figure?). And one side...well, whatever. That's why I respect Obama the most, because he never stooped to that level.


You have to be kidding. The mudslinging aimed at Sarah Palin was non-stop!
The only difference was that Obama was smart enough to have his agents do
the slinging.

You Obama supporters are so blind to the pied piper, that you'll follow him right into the sea. Unfortunately, it'll take the rest of the country with you.
The only solace is knowing that within two years, he'll institute a universal military draft, men and women, and then we'll hear how great Obama really is, from all of his peace-niks.
And before you respond about McCain, I didn't vote for him either. He's just the other side of the same coin, owned part and parcel by the NWO.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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do you guys not see this $ is going to be used to prop up the U.S debt market i.e treasury bills , notes, bonds. It will

1. increase demand for there debt and keep interest rates lower on it

lower price of oil = less dollars recycled into gov't debt.....which means it is getting more difficult for wall street firms like JP morgan to manipulate the long term intrest rates thru there 60 trillion $ book of intrest rate derviatives


This will also lower the relative payout from the gov't to retiree's via

2. pay off retire's with dollars of much less value in the long term

in 3-5 years tons of analysts are predicting a revaluation of the dollar downward in order to make debt more managable (personal and gov't debt) without this we are likely looking at a US bond market default



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Almost all of the mudslinging came from the McCain camp itself. The Obama camp did not do much attacking this election that I noticed.

 

As for the 401k, I am not sure what I think about this. I do know that "confiscating" isn't the correct word. Last time I heard about it, they were considering a bill where they would offer those with a 401k an OPTION to trade for this new account (and they were going to pay them handsomely for doing so).

They weren't just taking the money.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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I don't have a lot of money - and even I don't think we should be taking away what everyone has worked so hard for - by following the rules that the system demanded - keeping jobs that they didn't enjoy for the sake of a financially secure future for their families, health insurance and the like. You can't change the rules exactly when those people are finally about to relax.

You can however - look to all of the folks who lined their pockets by starting a false war - the corporations that ate us up with their greed and the politicians who endangered the general public in trade for financial gain through special interest groups.

There are some people who should pay out the wazoo to even up this ridiculous monetary system - but it isn't the regular "Joe and Joanne" who worked so hard for so many years of their life - and did what they were "told" to do. Not ok.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
Where are the usual liberal suspects here to defend this?


Reason is right here. But first to put the OP in perspective. The proposal was to shield investors from market crashes and dwindling 401ks.

Now let me remind all of you about the GW private social security program which if we had done that, the nation would be in even more dire straights with Social security in the hole.


GW Bush

"The overall stock market has never lost money over any 20-year period," he continued. "It is the best and safest way to build personal wealth.".


archives.cnn.com...

Its a good thing we didn't act on this. This story was in 2000. With the fall of the market, 911 and the war, we this would have been a disastrous undertaking.

If you recall, he wanted to invest SSI profits in the private market.

If you have a 401k backed by the US gov, it would assure a 3% gain. Consider the alternative, of losing it all together.

If the government was not to act at all, you could lose all of your 401k.

Then who would you have to blame? The Government, your portfolio manager, or yourself. Sometimes long term assured gains are better then great gains over short term. Its all about opportunity cost.

Retirement shouldn't be a gamble, and it was in this vein that the proposal was being discussed.

Peace



[edit on 8-11-2008 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 

I have to admit to being one of the dum dum conservatives that, in looking on the bright side, thought the big government democrats would crack down on the fascists of big business. It's embarrassing to think what a fool I was. They get power and immediately remind me why I'm a Republican!



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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I got my 401k out 4 months ago,yet it took 2 months of jumping thru Fidelity hoops to actually get the cash. If there is a run on the 401k's do you really think these corrupt investment banks will pay everyone?

If you can, get it out now and buy any survival commodities like generators,solar panels,food,gardening supplies,and ,yes,weapons and ammo. If your mortgage can be paid off with the money then do it.

The NWO is running at warp speed and we need to prepare.

It's not fearmongering if they actually have a gun in our face.

Chips,anyone?



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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You probably all have seen this. And - I am not even sure if I can post this.
But the truth from George Carlin - is a good reminder of who and where we are in this country. How good would it feel to "out" all of the thieves that have taken this country hostage?

www.youtube.com...



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...


Originally posted by MAINTAL

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by wutone
 


Wutone...Please provide a link... transcript, PDF etc as opposed to a piece written with an agenda, that what she is proposing in Mandatory?

You could be right, but forgive me for not taking your word for it without a sound source.

The phrase "confiscating 401ks, IRAs" etc is not truthful and from what I can find she says this...

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...

Again...I think this is a lot of hot air and the committe is simply hearing different views...and I oppose her plan, BUT honesty is important when evaluating these issues.

Please direct me to the link where she states "Mandatory"



No the problem is mayberry that for many many weeks now you have been spouting off the Grand Obama without looking into his backround and credible links all the things you insist we always have to provide for you and when we do you offer the logical fallacy of its website source as not credible enough when what that means is, it isn't pro Obama enough for you to want to believe.
[edit on 7-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


Yes...my annoying need for accuracy, sources, facts etc..I know I am a lot like that communist, liberal, left wing media with their need for legitimate sources and actual facts and such.

I should just trust the "truthiness" of these things and not worry about sources, or as sarah Palin likes to say rather than research, "just trust your gut".

Seriously....
I asked Wutone for a source beyond the article that indicated "The Democrat Leaders" were discussing "CONFISCATING 401(k)s" etc.

He gratiously directed me to the PDF linked to from the article...which apparently I am the only one that actually read that very boring document.

After READING THE WHOLE THING. I still couldn't find anything about confiscating the 401(k)s etc., but rather eliminating the tax breaks for them. I responded to Wutone saying as much and he then says...well see the OP Article.......OTHERWISE...see the article for the source of the article!

Circular logic and a trademark of the failed propaganda we saw in the most recent election. Its true because I say so..Source?..yes right there where I said it


I have provided numerous sources showing that THIS IS NOT CONFISCATING 401k(s). Including the actual link to the PDF in the OP!

Again...I am not for this plan, but I am for stopping the BS!

Lastly...this was a committe hearing where they listen to different ideas and is not indicative that it will happen.

I have found no articles claiming the President Elect Obama supports this.


Originally posted by wutone
reply to post by maybereal11
 


That is where the OP article comes in.
True it isn't FOX, CNN, or MSNBC but the MSM is reeking BS.


This cracked me up. This is called removing the referee. When McCain attacked the "liberal left wing media" at the RNC it was saying ...believe what we say and don't trust anyone else..this is when I knew the serious BS was going to start to fly.

Now even FOX is part of some conspiracy with the Democrats to "Confiscate" our 401(k)s?

This is a talking point that has been put out by a wing of the GOP that still wants to continue with relentless attacks on the Democrats based on half truths and spin. The folks that put this out there are the wing of the GOP that the rest of the GOP feels cost them an election. I am not really worried much about this kind of BS anymore, because I believe the GOP will staighten out their own party.

OKAY...Back to your regularly scheduled "Programming" .....

[edit on 9-11-2008 by maybereal11]

[edit on 9-11-2008 by maybereal11]





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