Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs , page 3


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reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 03:59 PM by wutone
reply to post by maybereal11



That is where the OP article comes in.

True it isn't FOX, CNN, or MSNBC but the MSM is reeking BS.

The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.


Teresa Ghilarducci doesn't mention "confiscate" in the pdf plan, but the her testimony before Congress does.

But even if you don't believe that....

What would happen to 401k managers when the main reason, tax advantages, for 401k's is deleted? Those tax breaks are the reason many people put money into their 401k's and IRA's.

401k's would be gone from the system and any existing accounts will need to be bailed out. It can't be argued that the government is in the process of socializing a chunk of the financial world. If 401k mangers start failing, it isn't a stretch that they would be bailed out too.

This is the confiscation.

First take away the advantage of 401k's and IRA's.

Create a new and mandatory retirement system.

Swoop in and take over the failing 401k and IRA fund managers to save the individual accounts and put them under government administration.


reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 04:07 PM by wutone
reply to post by nunya13




But the the thread isn't misleading.

Testimony was given in Congress about the confiscation of IRA's and 401k's.

The fact that Congress is holding hearings says that they are entertaining the idea.

If the OP article is false, then find Congressional records stating otherwise.

It is understandable that you might find the government takeover of individual retirement accounts to be a good thing, just don't deny the fact that the government is talking about it.

And saying that the government won't confiscate anything is scaremongering is hilarious. It happened before. Read about Roosevelt's 1933 gold confiscation.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]



reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 04:27 PM by wutone
reply to post by nh_ee



Last time I checked, the democrats have been in charge of Congress (the guys that actually make the laws and budgets) for the past 2 years.

Last time I checked, Bush wasn't a conservative. Bush seems to be at home with the socialist congress. I wonder what that makes him.

I don't know about you but I don't feel like putting away money into Social Security due to the fact that the cheap IOU's the government is giving me will be worthless when it is time to cash in. If you think the stock market collapse was big, wait for the day when Social Security liabilities eat 90%+ of the national budget.


reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 05:06 PM by MAINTAL
Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to
post by wutone



Wutone...Please provide a link... transcript, PDF etc as opposed to a piece written with an agenda, that what she is proposing in Mandatory?

You could be right, but forgive me for not taking your word for it without a sound source.

The phrase "confiscating 401ks, IRAs" etc is not truthful and from what I can find she says this...

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...

Again...I think this is a lot of hot air and the committe is simply hearing different views...and I oppose her plan, BUT honesty is important when evaluating these issues.

Please direct me to the link where she states "Mandatory"



No the problem is mayberry that for many many weeks now you have been spouting off the Grand Obama without looking into his backround and credible links all the things you insist we always have to provide for you and when we do you offer the logical fallacy of its website source as not credible enough when what that means is, it isn't pro Obama enough for you to want to believe.

The FACT is the word "Confiscate" is appropriate when tampering with our money in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM whether they siphon from it, skim off it or make fancy level 4 abstractions amounting to what can be said in one simple word and CONFISCATE would be that word.

This is one of many issues we knew this guy did in Illinois and will continue to do BUT YOU didn't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true, but because your need to be RIGHT was in jeopardy.

Well you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

We also know that this guy is going to waste no time in doing all he has planned and it won't take long for us to see that THIS guy is why I keep saying "Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse"

Ladies and Gentleman! I give you Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama!

So Get used to it, this is only the begining



[edit on 7-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 06:24 PM by Masterjaden
Originally posted by nunya13
Originally posted by wutone
Originally posted by nunya13


You're upset they are holding hearing to come up with ways to fix the economy??


No I am upset that they are holding hearings on ways to take over the economy.

If you think that it is ok for a group of people to have full control of everyone's lives and that is the ideal fix, then I guess that is where our opinions disagree.

As of now, I don't feel like having money I saved into my retirement being but into the control of the Social Security Administration due to the unpleasant fact that SS liabilities will swallow up 100% of the projected U.S. government budget in about 15-20 years. I don't feel like being force to put my money into something that is doomed to fail.



[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]


Then why do we have a government at all? We have a very small group of people governing our lives every single day. It's their job to have meetings and hearing in order to get to the bottom of things.

Edited: Because, apparently (as determined by myself alone), I am full of it!

[edit on 7-11-2008 by nunya13]

It is the federal governments job to do ONE thing, and they have greatly overstepped their bounds. It is their job to hold together the states and to provide a central governement to support a ratified constitution that was ratified by ALL of the states. Then members of those states who are delegates to the Federal government gather together under the auspices of that constitution and legislate matters that affect ALL of the union of states, again, under the auspices of that constitution that was ratified by all of the member states. There are checks and balances placed to ensure that they do not step outside the bounds of that constitution, but even those have become corrupted and abused today.

Now we are faced with a corrupt and abusive federal government that has greatly stepped outside of its boounds. IT IS bounded by the consititution, remember, the federal government is a union of STATES, not an entity in and of itself, and each of those states is constituted by members of its constituency that it ultimately answers to.

If the people in charge of that federal government step outside of the bounds limited to them by the US constitution, then it is the right of the state to reject it's membership in the union based on a breach of contract.

I am NOT saying that it should be its first step, but we can not allow the federal government to continue to step outside of it's legal bounds.

It is the corruption that has promulgated that needs to be dealt with and that prevents the built in self corrections and the built in safe guards from working correctly and it is this that upsets us most. They allow them to trample on our rights and our constitution.

If this country keeps trampling on the constitution that it was built on, then the government has failed and it is our duty to stand up and restore our liberties as guaranteed us.

Remember, those of us who have dutifully served this country did so by swearing an oath to defend the constitution of these united states from all enemies foreign and domestic and believe it when I say that domestic enemies are enemies to the constitution, not necessarily to the members of the federal government.

Jaden


reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 06:30 PM by Masterjaden
Originally posted by wutone
reply to
post by nunya13




But the the thread isn't misleading.

Testimony was given in Congress about the confiscation of IRA's and 401k's.

The fact that Congress is holding hearings says that they are entertaining the idea.

If the OP article is false, then find Congressional records stating otherwise.

It is understandable that you might find the government takeover of individual retirement accounts to be a good thing, just don't deny the fact that the government is talking about it.

And saying that the government won't confiscate anything is scaremongering is hilarious. It happened before. Read about Roosevelt's 1933 gold confiscation.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]


Absolutely, FDR was the WORST president we have EVER had, forget about Bush. Ever since FDR and his "New Deal", we have been a socialist republic, not a democratic republic.

JAden


reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 06:34 PM by Masterjaden
Originally posted by MAINTAL
Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to
post by wutone



Wutone...Please provide a link... transcript, PDF etc as opposed to a piece written with an agenda, that what she is proposing in Mandatory?

You could be right, but forgive me for not taking your word for it without a sound source.

The phrase "confiscating 401ks, IRAs" etc is not truthful and from what I can find she says this...

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...

Again...I think this is a lot of hot air and the committe is simply hearing different views...and I oppose her plan, BUT honesty is important when evaluating these issues.

Please direct me to the link where she states "Mandatory"



No the problem is mayberry that for many many weeks now you have been spouting off the Grand Obama without looking into his backround and credible links all the things you insist we always have to provide for you and when we do you offer the logical fallacy of its website source as not credible enough when what that means is, it isn't pro Obama enough for you to want to believe.

The FACT is the word "Confiscate" is appropriate when tampering with our money in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM whether they siphon from it, skim off it or make fancy level 4 abstractions amounting to what can be said in one simple word and CONFISCATE would be that word.

This is one of many issues we knew this guy did in Illinois and will continue to do BUT YOU didn't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true, but because your need to be RIGHT was in jeopardy.

Well you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

We also know that this guy is going to waste no time in doing all he has planned and it won't take long for us to see that THIS guy is why I keep saying "Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse"

Ladies and Gentleman! I give you Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama!

So Get used to it, this is only the begining



[edit on 7-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


I lend more credibility to you, not because I happen to agree with you (which I do), but because you actually used the right "used" when you stated that you would have to get "used" to it. Most people use "use" here when they are trying to say that they will have to get used to something and it is annoying at least and detracts from their credibility for not being able to even use proper grammar at most.

Jaden



reply posted on 7-11-2008 @ 08:27 PM by phinubian
Truth be told main street is holding wall street together about right now, I bet if everyone were to lose their job, then when they do they withdraw their 401k and take the hit, many wall street firms will implode, the very corrupt firms that have invested in worthless securities and gambled with your hard earned life savings or potential nest egg.

That is the main reason why the government makes it seem like a sin when you even mention withdrawal, for hardship if I have 10gs and need it right now there is not credit, no one to borrow from where do you think most people go, especially if you for one have not really saved that much into it and the last time you looked that 401k is 3gs lower in value, this has nothing to do with the democrats, what they may be attempting to avoid is full implosion of the economy.

There is a huge wave of the baby boomers getting ready to cash in, leaving a very low vested amount of money in markets based on 401k monies to prop up wall street and some of the volume you see every day.

I really wish there had been more talk of social security during the campaign and some talk of how government is skimming from that and have manipulated the cost of living calculation and real inflations to steal from social security, all of the people that think Obama is socialist need to get educated about the economic realities, the average social security check is about half of what it should be based on the formulas before hiding and manipulating the data used to plug into it, I believe that occurred sometime during the 90's.

We the people are being stole from and bankrupted by the rich, that is the truth you the people have been spreading your wealth around unknowingly because everything is manipulated and then you only get the data that the government wants you to have.

The latest projections are that the wheels have already been put into motion and we will be facing up to 12 percent unemployment and there is nothing that can be done about it at this point, the pain is coming and most people will not be ready.

The economy is a circular flow of money, if we the consumers stop spending and then saving every cent there is nothing that can be done to stimulate the economy, these last futile attempts to inject stimulus by the relatively puny checks they have handed out is laughable, oh by the way I made too much money according to them so I didnt get my 600 dollars but I could have sure used it because I am no where near rich.
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