Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs

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posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


That is where the OP article comes in.

True it isn't FOX, CNN, or MSNBC but the MSM is reeking BS.


The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.


Teresa Ghilarducci doesn't mention "confiscate" in the pdf plan, but the her testimony before Congress does.

But even if you don't believe that....

What would happen to 401k managers when the main reason, tax advantages, for 401k's is deleted? Those tax breaks are the reason many people put money into their 401k's and IRA's.

401k's would be gone from the system and any existing accounts will need to be bailed out. It can't be argued that the government is in the process of socializing a chunk of the financial world. If 401k mangers start failing, it isn't a stretch that they would be bailed out too.

This is the confiscation.

First take away the advantage of 401k's and IRA's.

Create a new and mandatory retirement system.

Swoop in and take over the failing 401k and IRA fund managers to save the individual accounts and put them under government administration.




posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537
Where are the usual liberal suspects here to defend this?

Isn't this the type of thing they all claimed would not happen?



Yeah this is how Obama is going to pay for that tax cut we were all supposed to get, Ill end up losing a hell of a lot more than they gain but hey IT'S SELFISH NOT TO SHARE! This is already looking worse than Bush replacing one liar with an even bigger one.

Change we can all believe in because that is all ill have left and just when we thought things couldn't get any worse



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 



But the the thread isn't misleading.

Testimony was given in Congress about the confiscation of IRA's and 401k's.

The fact that Congress is holding hearings says that they are entertaining the idea.

If the OP article is false, then find Congressional records stating otherwise.

It is understandable that you might find the government takeover of individual retirement accounts to be a good thing, just don't deny the fact that the government is talking about it.

And saying that the government won't confiscate anything is scaremongering is hilarious. It happened before. Read about Roosevelt's 1933 gold confiscation.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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The last time I checked , the president elect doesn't attain the role of President until he's inaugurated on January 20th.

Where is our acting Conservative Republican President, George W. Bush ?
He's packing his bags and his private jet to high tail it to his hide away ranch in Paraguay.

Additionally, if you recall, He had wanted our social security invested in the stock market. He had already raided the Social Security trust anyway so by saying it had been lost in the stock market he could better cover his tracks.

I left 10,800. in my IRA after withdrawing most of it last August. It is now worth $5,089. Fortunately I withdrew most of it.

All of these issues have occurred while our Republican administration and their money grab were in charge not the president elect. They are the ones responsible for the current financial crisis.

This confiscation of 401K/IRAs is currently here say at best. Do you honestly believe they would legally be able to pass legislation to implement such a plan ?
On the other hand, looking at how people's retirement accounts have blown up , just perhaps they're looking at something that might provide some degree of security vs the risks inherent to the stock market instead ?



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Double whammy for me on this subject. I have been saving for retirement through 401(k) and I have spent my entire career in the defined contribution industry. If this goes through not only am I out of control of my retirement savings, but I am basicaly out of a job, since the industry goes away, plus I will then be carrying a lot of useless knowledge in my noggin.

Not withstanding my own predicament, people should definitely think long and hard about making a deal with the "devil" and trading their balance a few months ago for a low "gauranteed" rate of return of 3% per year or whatever the specific "deal" would be. The market always rebounds and you will always be better off having a balanced portfolio which would return 7-9% year over year instead whatever rate of return the Democrat controlled goverment promises you right now. 401(k)'s are in fully funded trust accounts. When the government gets involved they take your money and spend it and create an IOU. Just like the current SS system which is likely to go bankrupt sometime in the next 20 years.

This is also a matter of personal freedom. Do you want maintain control over your life or do you want the government to control your future?



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by nh_ee
 


Last time I checked, the democrats have been in charge of Congress (the guys that actually make the laws and budgets) for the past 2 years.

Last time I checked, Bush wasn't a conservative. Bush seems to be at home with the socialist congress. I wonder what that makes him.

I don't know about you but I don't feel like putting away money into Social Security due to the fact that the cheap IOU's the government is giving me will be worthless when it is time to cash in. If you think the stock market collapse was big, wait for the day when Social Security liabilities eat 90%+ of the national budget.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by wutone
 


Wutone...Please provide a link... transcript, PDF etc as opposed to a piece written with an agenda, that what she is proposing in Mandatory?

You could be right, but forgive me for not taking your word for it without a sound source.

The phrase "confiscating 401ks, IRAs" etc is not truthful and from what I can find she says this...

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...

Again...I think this is a lot of hot air and the committe is simply hearing different views...and I oppose her plan, BUT honesty is important when evaluating these issues.

Please direct me to the link where she states "Mandatory"



No the problem is mayberry that for many many weeks now you have been spouting off the Grand Obama without looking into his backround and credible links all the things you insist we always have to provide for you and when we do you offer the logical fallacy of its website source as not credible enough when what that means is, it isn't pro Obama enough for you to want to believe.

The FACT is the word "Confiscate" is appropriate when tampering with our money in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM whether they siphon from it, skim off it or make fancy level 4 abstractions amounting to what can be said in one simple word and CONFISCATE would be that word.

This is one of many issues we knew this guy did in Illinois and will continue to do BUT YOU didn't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true, but because your need to be RIGHT was in jeopardy.

Well you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

We also know that this guy is going to waste no time in doing all he has planned and it won't take long for us to see that THIS guy is why I keep saying "Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse"

Ladies and Gentleman! I give you Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama!

So Get used to it, this is only the begining



[edit on 7-11-2008 by MAINTAL]



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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I'm not a Democrat neither & as the transcript is pretty clear that no one, agreed with her. Hey heres one for ya...John Lennon was a C.I.A. double operative & killed by the K.G.B. then the Democrats confiscated his U.S. earnings to fund some weird new invention that would prosper in the coming years & would link folks like us together so we could babble on about nothing. Oh & the dude on the Grassy Knoll, was Don Knotts.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by wutone

Originally posted by nunya13


You're upset they are holding hearing to come up with ways to fix the economy??


No I am upset that they are holding hearings on ways to take over the economy.

If you think that it is ok for a group of people to have full control of everyone's lives and that is the ideal fix, then I guess that is where our opinions disagree.

As of now, I don't feel like having money I saved into my retirement being but into the control of the Social Security Administration due to the unpleasant fact that SS liabilities will swallow up 100% of the projected U.S. government budget in about 15-20 years. I don't feel like being force to put my money into something that is doomed to fail.



[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]


Then why do we have a government at all? We have a very small group of people governing our lives every single day. It's their job to have meetings and hearing in order to get to the bottom of things.

Edited: Because, apparently (as determined by myself alone), I am full of it!

[edit on 7-11-2008 by nunya13]

It is the federal governments job to do ONE thing, and they have greatly overstepped their bounds. It is their job to hold together the states and to provide a central governement to support a ratified constitution that was ratified by ALL of the states. Then members of those states who are delegates to the Federal government gather together under the auspices of that constitution and legislate matters that affect ALL of the union of states, again, under the auspices of that constitution that was ratified by all of the member states. There are checks and balances placed to ensure that they do not step outside the bounds of that constitution, but even those have become corrupted and abused today.

Now we are faced with a corrupt and abusive federal government that has greatly stepped outside of its boounds. IT IS bounded by the consititution, remember, the federal government is a union of STATES, not an entity in and of itself, and each of those states is constituted by members of its constituency that it ultimately answers to.

If the people in charge of that federal government step outside of the bounds limited to them by the US constitution, then it is the right of the state to reject it's membership in the union based on a breach of contract.

I am NOT saying that it should be its first step, but we can not allow the federal government to continue to step outside of it's legal bounds.

It is the corruption that has promulgated that needs to be dealt with and that prevents the built in self corrections and the built in safe guards from working correctly and it is this that upsets us most. They allow them to trample on our rights and our constitution.

If this country keeps trampling on the constitution that it was built on, then the government has failed and it is our duty to stand up and restore our liberties as guaranteed us.

Remember, those of us who have dutifully served this country did so by swearing an oath to defend the constitution of these united states from all enemies foreign and domestic and believe it when I say that domestic enemies are enemies to the constitution, not necessarily to the members of the federal government.

Jaden



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by gopher mines
These are "Hearings", they are listening to many different ideas on how to save the economy, just because some crazy lady comes up there and lays out what her plan entails, doesn't mean they're going to use her plan.




The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism.


drew the most attention and criticism.

I'm sure there were some republicans there, why try and make it seem like democrats are going to take your retirement accounts. This board is degenerating from a group of intelligent critical thinkers into a bunch of mindless idiots.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by gopher mines]


Exactly. This is complete sensationalist garbage that the anti-obama crowd is desperate to latch onto. Its sad, pathetic really.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by wutone
reply to post by nunya13
 



But the the thread isn't misleading.

Testimony was given in Congress about the confiscation of IRA's and 401k's.

The fact that Congress is holding hearings says that they are entertaining the idea.

If the OP article is false, then find Congressional records stating otherwise.

It is understandable that you might find the government takeover of individual retirement accounts to be a good thing, just don't deny the fact that the government is talking about it.

And saying that the government won't confiscate anything is scaremongering is hilarious. It happened before. Read about Roosevelt's 1933 gold confiscation.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by wutone]


Absolutely, FDR was the WORST president we have EVER had, forget about Bush. Ever since FDR and his "New Deal", we have been a socialist republic, not a democratic republic.

JAden



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by wutone
 


Wutone...Please provide a link... transcript, PDF etc as opposed to a piece written with an agenda, that what she is proposing in Mandatory?

You could be right, but forgive me for not taking your word for it without a sound source.

The phrase "confiscating 401ks, IRAs" etc is not truthful and from what I can find she says this...

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
www.workforce.com...

Again...I think this is a lot of hot air and the committe is simply hearing different views...and I oppose her plan, BUT honesty is important when evaluating these issues.

Please direct me to the link where she states "Mandatory"



No the problem is mayberry that for many many weeks now you have been spouting off the Grand Obama without looking into his backround and credible links all the things you insist we always have to provide for you and when we do you offer the logical fallacy of its website source as not credible enough when what that means is, it isn't pro Obama enough for you to want to believe.

The FACT is the word "Confiscate" is appropriate when tampering with our money in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM whether they siphon from it, skim off it or make fancy level 4 abstractions amounting to what can be said in one simple word and CONFISCATE would be that word.

This is one of many issues we knew this guy did in Illinois and will continue to do BUT YOU didn't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true, but because your need to be RIGHT was in jeopardy.

Well you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

We also know that this guy is going to waste no time in doing all he has planned and it won't take long for us to see that THIS guy is why I keep saying "Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse"

Ladies and Gentleman! I give you Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama!

So Get used to it, this is only the begining



[edit on 7-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


I lend more credibility to you, not because I happen to agree with you (which I do), but because you actually used the right "used" when you stated that you would have to get "used" to it. Most people use "use" here when they are trying to say that they will have to get used to something and it is annoying at least and detracts from their credibility for not being able to even use proper grammar at most.

Jaden



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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This snippet didn't include the name Obama anywhere in it.
The words used were Democratic leaders in the U.S. House. Obama holds office in the Senate. Although there is communication between the two houses, we can't be sure what stance Obama himself will take. Mr. Obama may very well comment on this or veto any bill. There are many pieces of radical legislature coming from both Republicans and Democtrats in the past and current and future. Let's relax guys?

We don't need to bash Obama and in effect, his supporters, for this reason.

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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I still say that the media when there jobs are on the chopping block and they realise what they have to lose they will start to do more coverage about these kinds of things. The government just hasnt stepped on there turf enough yet.

Its amazing what can happen when you cover something years before hand and then later on when people realise how they have been used they start to put the pieces together. There is a link again on the bottem of my post that is a good idea of what to do with your wealth before the repo man and women come climbing for that too.

Viva la francia

fight the power.

Falcon



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by ldunquist

Originally posted by gopher mines
These are "Hearings", they are listening to many different ideas on how to save the economy, just because some crazy lady comes up there and lays out what her plan entails, doesn't mean they're going to use her plan.




The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism.


drew the most attention and criticism.

I'm sure there were some republicans there, why try and make it seem like democrats are going to take your retirement accounts. This board is degenerating from a group of intelligent critical thinkers into a bunch of mindless idiots.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by gopher mines]


Exactly. This is complete sensationalist garbage that the anti-obama crowd is desperate to latch onto. Its sad, pathetic really.


You know what? Contrary to what most people claim, I LOVE being an I told you so. SO, with the democratic house and senate and presidency, I have a sneaking suspicion that they are going to go for all of the things that they were afraid to even voice, let alone try to do before. This means that I will be able to say "I told you so". Only, it will be at the cost of our freedoms and our nation in all liklihood.




posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by michael
Can the fluoride-numbed, chem-trail breathing masses get mad at anything anymore?


yeah they can

they get real mad when their favorite singer get voted out of american idol



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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Oh, but it's only fair that they take my money to pay for some lazy persons retirement. It's not their fault that they're lazy. It's the system, man.

After all, I have $600,000 in my 401(k), which makes me rich, AND THE RICH MUST PAYYYY! Notice that they're not interested in raiding trusts, which is where the rich politicians & actors keep their millions.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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I wrote a small article, within this site, a couple of months ago about social security being privatized.

This is a great start. Take the money already invested in stocks and bonds from 401's, 457's, Roth accounts, along with other private accounts and then dump billions more, every week, into the faulty stock market from Social Security's Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) tax.

It feeds upon itself and this plan is sure to work.

Even better idea to really get the ol' economy up and running, charge capital gains tax on the money already vested in the retirement accounts (regardless of your age). Let the government keep this money, no sacrifice too small in this time of crisis, and then just lump the remained into a large fund we can all just share from.

Hey, I voted for the guy, and I'm here to help....



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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Something people need to consider is that our nations private pension plan system is in far worse shape than SS. What is dragging down Ford and GM is their retirement plans. 401k managers have robbed 401k investors blind, and good ole fashioned de-regulation allowed it all to happen.

What the government should be doing instead of bailing out banks, is directly bailing out 401k plans. Anyone who knows what has been going on with these plans for the last ten years, knows how criminally the system has operated.



posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Truth be told main street is holding wall street together about right now, I bet if everyone were to lose their job, then when they do they withdraw their 401k and take the hit, many wall street firms will implode, the very corrupt firms that have invested in worthless securities and gambled with your hard earned life savings or potential nest egg.

That is the main reason why the government makes it seem like a sin when you even mention withdrawal, for hardship if I have 10gs and need it right now there is not credit, no one to borrow from where do you think most people go, especially if you for one have not really saved that much into it and the last time you looked that 401k is 3gs lower in value, this has nothing to do with the democrats, what they may be attempting to avoid is full implosion of the economy.

There is a huge wave of the baby boomers getting ready to cash in, leaving a very low vested amount of money in markets based on 401k monies to prop up wall street and some of the volume you see every day.

I really wish there had been more talk of social security during the campaign and some talk of how government is skimming from that and have manipulated the cost of living calculation and real inflations to steal from social security, all of the people that think Obama is socialist need to get educated about the economic realities, the average social security check is about half of what it should be based on the formulas before hiding and manipulating the data used to plug into it, I believe that occurred sometime during the 90's.

We the people are being stole from and bankrupted by the rich, that is the truth you the people have been spreading your wealth around unknowingly because everything is manipulated and then you only get the data that the government wants you to have.

The latest projections are that the wheels have already been put into motion and we will be facing up to 12 percent unemployment and there is nothing that can be done about it at this point, the pain is coming and most people will not be ready.

The economy is a circular flow of money, if we the consumers stop spending and then saving every cent there is nothing that can be done to stimulate the economy, these last futile attempts to inject stimulus by the relatively puny checks they have handed out is laughable, oh by the way I made too much money according to them so I didnt get my 600 dollars but I could have sure used it because I am no where near rich.






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