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Unemployed Nation: America's Shrinking Payroll

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posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 12:57 PM
Oh man, I feel so vindicated, too. I remember Perot talking about the Vast Sucking Sound and how NAFTA would hurt us. I remember when "crazy old" Pat Buchanon told us about GATT and NAFTA and was roundly ignored and laughed at. I told people for YEARS the system was flawed and in trouble and no one listened to me. And now I'm finally seeing me and Ron Paul are riding the crazy train together with a lot more people.

I was talking to a friend of mine about George Carlin's bit where he asks people if the water is safe to drink. Remember that? And some shouted YES! and others shouted NO!. George told them he was glad to hear them answer no, because it was a sign there were cracks in the system. Even with the news and the government telling everyone their water was safe, they still didn't believe them. He also said he felt like America was circling the drain and it was exciting to watch. I kind of feel the same way. I don't want to suffer joblessness or homelessness or see my family in peril from riots and so on, but damn, it's exciting and scary. Like the prologue to the Road Warrior or something.

It's wild to have my economist wife and my sober realist father finally sharing my wild-eyed opinions as the world turns closer and closer to my estimation of it.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 02:06 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
very good post and article.

Can you believe there are people out there that still can't see that the Republican Party adheres to the whims of Corporate America at the expense of the American People.

Where have all those jobs gone? Why to India, China and all over the globe. Why? Profit, profit for the "Board", the CEO, the shareholders, again at the expense of the common person.

The "financial crisis" we have been experiencing is just the beginning of Bush's legacy.

Who is to blame? Anyone out there that was stupid enough to vote Republican.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 02:44 PM
If unemployment was calculated now, the way it was back during the Great Depression, which means counting the vast ranks of those currently deemed unemployable. because they couldn't find a job, and those who are under employed, who took lower paid and even part time jobs to make ends meet, then unemployment would numbers would show that unemployment in this country is higher than it has ever been, probably around 25%.

NAFTA didn't do us in, the WTO did, with the lopsided trade agreements that favor giant corporations, and stack the labor competition greatly against U.S. workers. This, combined with opening the flood gates to illegal immigration has pushed up home prices while pushing down wages at the same time.

China and Japan, and the other Eastern rim countries fix their currencies to give themselves a trade advantage, whilesetting up trade barriers to increase their advantage. Europe also puts up considerable trade barriers.

The U.S. government has built up a huge debt, most of the money going overseas in one form or another ubsidizing International corporations, or subsidizing illegal immigration, which subsidizes corporations, through medicaid and other sneaky methods.

Here is the solution. The federal government should be paid for by goods and services that cross state and national borders, as the fed gov is in charge of interstate and international trade, not trade that takes place only within state borders. With this in mind, U.S. workers who sell their skills to a local clientel, or employers, should pay very little federal income tax, especially since Raygun cut off large amounts of money that used to go to the states. Make the federal government pay its debts primarily by taxing goods and service that cross state and federal borders, as it should be, and greatly cut the federal incomes taxes that workers are being forced to pay, with very little benefit. This will greatly cut the cost U.S. workers, and even the playing field in the competition of the planets workers.

Also, this would be a huge boon to small businesses and start ups, which are the true backbone of the U.S. economy.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Hang on for a bumpy ride. Start preparing now for the worse.

That's the bad part. The worst is already here some are just too blind to see it.


I wouldn't be surprised if 60-70 years from now people talk about our current situation like we talk about the Great Depression now.

Alas Dear Jenna, I fear you are wrong, the worst is yet to come. I fear in 200 years people will speak of the beginning of this era like we speak about the last days of the Roman Empire.

I live near a university town and even in tough times folks usually go back to school, but not this time. Folks aren't doing anything of the sort. They are laying low, leaving town, or just surrendering to hopelessness. I fortunately have a wife that has a very valuable trade (RN-ICU/ER/OR) and we live on a ranch.

I really feel for folks right now, but much of our Country's current situation is of our own doing. Greed, hubris, vanity, and that's just in the suburbs. There is no description for D.C.

Of course, Obama is going to save the world.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 03:14 PM
reply to post by poet1b

Your tax idea sounds fine but you know of course that the tax burden would be payed by truckers not any company. When the Dems in congress during Reagans time decided to get rid of the Commerce Department, interstate trucking took its steepest dive into poverty in history. They took any power to regulate trade barriers as well as trade policies. By doing this, they let corporate interests dictate the price of freight as well as taking any way for truckers to have recourse for bad debt and terrible treatment by shippers. Taxing for interstate movement of freight is wrong. Across US borders is right!


posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 03:57 PM
reply to post by ZindoDoone

They would have to stop corporations from dictating how these taxes are paid. I have to wonder why truckers didn't pass on the taxes to the buyers, and demand payment up front. It seems that if corporations force so many truckers out of business, then the costs of shipping should go up. Didn't this ever balance out?

Interstate travel should ony have to pay a small percentage, most of the debt for protecting our borders, and overseas presence should be charge to goods and services that cross national borders, or come into our nation.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 03:59 PM

Originally posted by poet1b
If unemployment was calculated now, the way it was back during the Great Depression, which means counting the vast ranks of those currently deemed unemployable. because they couldn't find a job, and those who are under employed, who took lower paid and even part time jobs to make ends meet, then unemployment would numbers would show that unemployment in this country is higher than it has ever been, probably around 25%.

It's not quite that bad yet. The number is still calculated under the BLS U6 measure, which can be found at this link.


Granted, one has to take the Birth/Death Model into consideration as well, but that's not going to skew the numbers far enough to hit 25%.

A good article on the manipulation of unemployment (and other) numbers can be found here.

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 05:30 PM
reply to post by poet1b

No, it never did balance out. Truckers, if they are independant actualy work for brokers of freight. Some do their own brokering but most do not. You take the freight that available for the rates you canget. There is no negotiation involved. If you don't take the load then some one else will be willing to take it. Between the fuel costs and the low freight, 2-4 thousand trucks are being parked every month. Costs to consumers are going up, but the price paid to truckers is not!
I know it sounds backwards, but that the way it is working out!

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 05:41 PM
We're getting the backlash of this up here in Canada. GM Canada's last remaining plant is doomed to close soon... same reasons were cited in our press as yours, GM doesn't have enough money to make it another year.

Ford is also losing more people in the Oakville area... it doesn't look good at all for western automakers.

It would seem that the Asian Automotive companies have finally won.

Well... then again, how is Volkswagen doing, and other European companies?

posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 06:44 PM
reply to post by traderjack

I'm not sure how much worse it can get honestly. Factories all over the country are shutting down and laying off hundreds of workers every day. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, have already lost their homes or will be losing them shortly. More and more people are are having to decide if they are going to buy groceries this week or if they are going to pay their electric/gas bill.

I do agree that we got where we are due to greed though. It seems that there isn't a single CEO in this country, possibly the world, who thinks of anything besides lining their pockets a little bit more while laying off or seriously underpaying those who work their tails off.

posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 02:41 AM
reply to post by johnsky

from what i am aware is that Volkswagon /audi/Porshe consortium are doing very well , but BMW and Mercedes are expecting a fall in profits, audi,volkswagon expect better profits thanks to the Chinese markets in this quarter

posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 02:56 AM

Originally posted by johnsky
It would seem that the Asian Automotive companies have finally won.

Well... then again, how is Volkswagen doing, and other European companies?

Last year I did my university internship with a subsidiary of GM in Germany. A friend I then met is working for GM Central Eastern Europe and told me yesterday they (GM) are about to open a huge plant in Russia that will produce Chevrolet and Opel.

Car sales have tumbled recently, but the situation is not close as severe as in the US. The biggest mistake of American car manufacturers is that they have been too long focusing on big gas guzzling cars. Only recently they have started to invest in smaller cars with lower fuel consumption. GM for some imports Opel (in UK Vauxhall) cars to the US and rebranded them to Saturn. Recently, however, they started to import the smaller Opel cars (Corsa and Astra).

posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 04:11 AM
I saw this coming years ago.

The liberals started taxing regulating and tree-hugging the corporations out of the US.

My last job was a superintendent and VP of a mining company.

As a company we were taxed for every employee, unemployment, workman's comp, PERMIT after PERMIT and fees for the permits.

Then we had to hire 1 office worker for every 2 persons working underground,

Then we had to pay high fuel taxes for the equipment we used.

Then property taxes on the trees on the property because we did not want to "pay" for the permits to cut them down.

All this before and on top of the taxes on the profits we might make.

Then we had to pay money to cover our company from taxes(fines) for thing that we had not done but some bureaucrat claimed we did,

We also had to cover our-self from Environmental Bounty Hunting by the tree hugger. another form of tax.

why does the government need 27 forms with the same information on them when one form for all agencies would do the same thing. and save trees. another form of tax because it takes time and money and a employee to fill out and send in all these forms.

THIS is one of the main reason companies leave the US

Now you have companies that hire illegals to save money because of the above.
They can no longer hire american workers because after all the above "taxes" they would not have any money,
OR they would have to raise the cost of there product so high that the asian countries with there cheap labor and few government regulation would undersell them.

This is what is happening to many US corporations like the auto industry and manufacturing companies.

This means lower paying jobs for US workers and lower wages mean the workers buy cheaper products from asia and the US companies lose more money.

The companies then close plants and layoff workers because they cannot sell there products.

Now you have the democrats that want to tax the US companies for going overseas.

All that will do is put the US companies out of business to be replaced by foreign companies. that they can not tax.

It will NOT create any new US jobs and will cost the US jobs as foreign companies take over,

Other things that the loss of the US automakers will do is slow down or stop the cleaning up of the environment in the US.
why should foreign companies care about the environment in the US they will tell the US gov that you ether take our cars or do without.
but then working at burger-king you will not have the money to buy a new car and will have to drive that polluting old clunker for many more years then you would have if there were better paying jobs.

I just wonder what new global warming laws the democrats will dream up now that so many people are unemployed and who is going to pay for them.

Watch they will go after US companies and we will lose even more JOBS.

The new jobs we will see are going to be union jobs and will go to democratic supporters. the rest can starve.

This has been happening in Calif with its democratic party machine.
the teacher union the prison guards union. the police and fire unions.
all the public employees unions supported by the rest of us.
they all have health care payed for by us.
what will happen when they pass national health care in the US and who will pay for it the US companies, think again it will just drive more overseas or out of business.

I love all this, I am a veteran on disability and no longer work and get my health care free, I payed my dues.

Its all of you S**kers that will have to pay for your votes.

Till we leave the state and they run out of money.

By the way i could start a business doing solar and wind equipment but i will not waste my money paying the democrats "TAXES" instead of making a living working. I would have had to hire employees that would have been jobs for someone that are lost.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by ANNED]

posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 09:52 AM
reply to post by ANNED

In my state, for every dollar you pay your employees, you pay the state and feds 1.10 in taxes and fees. To keep your costs down you pay your employees less and this artificialy keeps wages depressed. Its also the reason somany companies are not offering insurance and other benifits! Its only going to get worse.


posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 10:25 AM
im loosing my job in january. great, now what will i do. i make 20 an hour, there 9 years and now im going to get 18 weeks severance, and then im on the unemployment line. no more jobs here that make that much in this feild. i guess my car will get reposessed and it is almost paid for, the bank will like that. i just baught a trailer in a trailer park, that will get repo. really not much to look forward to here in minnesota. good luck everyone. peace.

posted on Nov, 10 2008 @ 10:32 AM
reply to post by ZindoDoone

Thanks for the walk on memory lane, people specially those that don't remember the Reagan legacy doesn't know that the hold that corporate have right now actually started during the Regan years.

Regannomics actually killed the power of the people over corporations.

posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 06:16 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

If food starts becoming scarce and expensive remember that
Amaranth seeds are a complete protein, and so are buckwheat seeds.

Look it up on wikipedia, it is right there.

In WW2 when things got tough ppl planted victory gardens
and they fed themselves primarily from that.

For ppl in the dense cities that have no land it is not going to be
a sustainable way of life if you cannot grow your own food.

Good Luck to you all !

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