I am white, and cannot voice my opinion about Obama, page 7

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reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:09 AM by fleabit

What sort of people do you hang around with, that they say things like this? I'd highly suggest finding more intelligent, insightful friends, that don't say stupid things like that because they are as dumb as a box of rocks.

I've said good and bad things about Obama, and no one has said a thing about race. None. I'd just hazard a guess it's the crowd you hang with.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:20 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by BluegrassRevolutionary

if you think anything is going to change in the usa you are all dreaming , mark my words just wait and see, the election took place to make the public believe they are still in a democracy ,its hollywood . .. wake up you americans for gods sake!

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 04:16 AM by Anonymous ATS

I work for one of the big box retailers and on election night right after they announced that obama had won one of my black coworkers got on the public address system and said "We gotta black president, WOHOO!!!!! This really got under my skin because in the first place you aren't supposed to make political statements at work and in the second place If Mcain had won and I had gotten on the pa system and said we got a white president WOHOO I would have been in the office the next day with the store manager the regional HR and the district manager and been FIRED. But because this person was black no one said a word. If I had said ANYTHING I would have been an instant racist. Now isn't that discrimination any way you look at it?

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 07:35 AM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by Sonya610

Question:
Do you hope he does a good job or do you hope he fails miserably so that you are vindicated?

I hope the economy improves and we are able to extricate ourselves from the middle east without things getting even worse over there.

I want to see the country succeed more than I want to see any individual fail.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 07:55 AM by son of PC

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 10:09 AM by Irish M1ck

reply to post by Sonya610

That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 11:23 AM by Grand Puba

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Grand Puba

You wouldnt know a racist if you saw one in the mirror.

You keep posting my entire posts, so rather than fixating on your opinion of what I wrote, I suggest you go back and actually read the original statement.

The fact that you insist on making that a racist statement on my part regarding blacks is ridiculous. You cant make me feel "race guilt" because I dont have any. I have met more non- "white" racists in my life than white ones, and when you cry racism over nothing at all, you merely make yourself look like a whiner. You dont make me look bad.

You can think what you want of me. You can even draw little pictures of me in a sheet with eye holes cut out if it makes you feel better about the world. It doesnt change who I am.

I can't cut and paste on my blackberry, but I promise I will prove my point later...

You still haven't explained why you chose to bring up how women didn't vote their gender and pick mccain/palin!

What was the purpose of that, unless you were infering something about the black vote?

Be honest...

Peace!

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 11:32 AM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.

Just realized who you are. I did not vote for McCain (could not vote for him, though I wanted to). We really hurt a lot of people in the Middle East and that makes me feel very bad (though I never voted for Bush), and it sickens me that most Americans do not give a damn about that, even the "new" Democrats. They just care about themselves; their taxes, their economy, their politically correct values.

I do give Obama credit, he was against the Iraq war from the beginning, one of the very few. But the race thing is a big issue for me. If he didn't have such extremist friends, if he had been a Collin Powell without the war mongering, I would have supported him.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Sonya610]

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 11:40 AM by Grand Puba

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 12:30 PM by Illusionsaregrander

reply to post by Grand Puba

My point was that white voters as a whole did not use "race" as a criteria in deciding who to vote for.

Which is why I mentioned the data that showed white voters as a whole voted for Obama in numbers in line with or even surpassing historical democratic votes by that segment.

I brought up the point that women did not vote based on their gender because Obama displaced a very popular with the female voter candidate, Hillary Clinton.

The Republicans chose a woman to run with McCain hoping to attract that female vote, banking on the hope that women voters would want so fervently to see a woman in the White House, that they would jump sides and vote for the team that had a member of their own gender on it, rather than keep their loyalty with the Democratic party. They, the Republicans, were hoping that women could not tell the difference between a "token" woman (Palin) and a qualified one, (Hillary) and were playing the gender card. It failed tremendously. Women chose by a substantial margin Obama.

Which is why I went on to elaborate that my 82 year old neighbor, who having lived an entire lifetime of striving to promote equality for women and having been egregiously discriminated against herself, instead of pushing her own agenda, (to see a woman in the White House) voted and worked very hard instead to support the better candidate Obama. Even knowing that at her age not having Palin in the White House meant that she would likely NEVER see a woman in the White House, she voted who she believed to be the best candidate, not to see her personal dream fulfilled however badly.

The point was that not only did Obama's race not cost him the white vote, even the great disappointment of many women voters in losing their opportunity to see a female President did not cost him the vote of women. White Americans overwhelmingly voted based on ideals. Not race. Not gender. Which should be evidence to those who claim that prejudice is still rampant, that this is not the case.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 01:15 PM by knows_but_doesnt

Here is yet another example of a news article by Fox News feeding the flames.

Bush uses Hand Sanitizer after shaking Obama's hand

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 01:17 PM by Irish M1ck

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I think you are correct. Overall, race is not an issue with white Americans any more. Racism still exists, I assure you that, it just isn't as much of an issue. The biggest reason being that most who would bring up race as an issue wouldn't have voted democrat anyway.

Same with religion. Most who would care if he was Muslim or named Hussein would have voted republican to begin with.

But if you have done any arguing on boards where censors don't stop people from saying what they truly think... oh, there is still much racism. The only reason we don't see it here is because:

1) They would get banned/warned

2) People realize that they won't get a pat on the back for it here

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:36 PM by knows_but_doesnt

Originally posted by fleabit
What sort of people do you hang around with, that they say things like this? I'd highly suggest finding more intelligent, insightful friends, that don't say stupid things like that because they are as dumb as a box of rocks.

I've said good and bad things about Obama, and no one has said a thing about race. None. I'd just hazard a guess it's the crowd you hang with.

These are customers coming through the door, not people I hang with. Remember, "Bay Area", so we've got all walks of life covered.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:45 PM by jimmyx

reply to post by knows_but_doesnt

what? i'm white male 55 yrs old and i voted for him, but if he screws up i'll voice my opinion on it, just like everybody else will...yes, even black people will do the same. we're all americans wanting our leaders to do the right thing...i think black people will be the MOST critical, because they don't want this to be a "see i told you so" type of thing. and i think obama is well aware of that too.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:46 PM by knows_but_doesnt

Did anyone notice that this thread has disappeared from the hot topic home pages? Do they automatically get bumped, or...?

Is it because I mentioned the word "muslim"?

I don't know how that all works, but it does spark my curiosity because a friend of mine, who is very connected, told me months ago that Obama would be president, and he had "lot's of friends, money, and backing". We were talking about selling presidential parody shirts, like "McNeedacain" and "Obamarama" type shirts. He warned me that if I got on their wrong side it would not be good, so we decided no fun this time around.

Like I said, I keep my eyes open in all directions.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 03:58 PM by knows_but_doesnt

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by knows_but_doesnt

what? i'm white male 55 yrs old and i voted for him, but if he screws up i'll voice my opinion on it, just like everybody else will...yes, even black people will do the same. we're all americans wanting our leaders to do the right thing...i think black people will be the MOST critical, because they don't want this to be a "see i told you so" type of thing. and i think obama is well aware of that too.

Love your sig.

Never did I say that I hold my tongue. And I agree with black voters holding him accountable, but that is what is the most scary thing. No one can deny the many quotes and videos of black voters talking about a free ride now that he is in office. Nor can anyone deny the huge black vote he got, from completely cluless, non-political or politically educated people.

I'm afraid we could easily slide into another Rodney King city burning if our administration is not careful. They may have to tiptoe on some situation, or completely hide others, so as not to upset the people that think that our president owes them something for their precious vote. The numbers prove the problem. There we more first time voters (or multiple voters for that matter) than ever before. You had corporations like Acorn signing up Micky Mouse to vote. Oops, Obama was associated with these guys too, but don't bring that up in the wrong company.

We'll see what happens, but things are real ugly now. Obama needs to address the black population and clear the air, slowly at first, and often, simply saying things like this is a great Country, and you too, mr. black or white person on welfare, can apply yourself and take advantage of all the opportunity that freedom affords. Do not ask for handouts, go out and achieve and overcome your situation, etc.

Right now, there are people FULL ON expecting more free checks in the mail come the day he steps into the Whitehouse. That, no matter how you look at it, is bad and needs to be addressed, and the sooner the better in my opinion.

reply posted on 9-11-2008 @ 04:30 PM by Illusionsaregrander

reply to post by Irish M1ck

Absolutely it still exists. And, I would argue it always will. There will always be a certain percentage of every population that cannot be bothered to judge other people individually, and will choose instead to judge "all" based on "some."

It is intellectual laziness. There will always be people who are guilty of that.

However, that said, that propensity to intellectual laziness exists in every "group." There is not now, nor has there ever been a subset of humanity that did not use that sort of judgment against other people.

What is different today, in this modern time, is that large numbers, the majority of people, are rejecting that "blanket" judgment of others.

In the past, not only whites but every ethnic group and culture I am aware of, used that collective form of judgment. "Them" and "us." Be it two enemy tribes native to North America, or tribes from Europe, or the Mediterranean, or Africa, or any other continent. You were "them" or you were "us." Of course there have always been cases where people meet and discover the fallacy of that "line" drawn between people, but by and large the majority of all humans thought that way.

What is fantastic about THIS time in our history is that we have evidence that people are looking at people and still judging, but judging individually rather than collectively. We ARE looking at the content of a man or woman's character and not the color of their skin.

And yes, there is room for improvement. Isnt there always? But I think it is a grave injustice to overlook how far we have come, to diminish this really great human achievement by insisting that how the past was is how it remains. Tribalism is not yet dead. It may never die entirely, but it is no longer the dominant mindset, at least here in the US. We should all be proud of that, and grateful to live here, now. And by all means we should not encourage the regrowth of tribal hatred by accepting or leaving unchallenged the claims and racist assertions of those unwilling to let that go.

It seems to me that some of the most vocal about "racism" today really do not seek equality for all, but rather aggrandizement for themselves and their "kind" however they identify that. I am absolutely willing and dedicated to ending discrimination of all kinds. I think we absolutely should judge individuals individually, on their own merits or shortcomings. But I will oppose without apology any attempt to trade one form of tribal discrimination for another, and I will have no problem calling a racist a racist, (or a sexist a sexist) regardless what their "historical" or personal experience of discrimination may be.

I think we do need to keep the pressure on racists or sexists in America. I just think we need to be darn sure we arent being racist or sexist ourselves when we apply that label.

reply posted on 10-11-2008 @ 05:06 PM by Grand Puba

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Grand Puba

My point was that white voters as a whole did not use "race" as a criteria in deciding who to vote for.

Which is why I mentioned the data that showed white voters as a whole voted for Obama in numbers in line with or even surpassing historical democratic votes by that segment.

I brought up the point that women did not vote based on their gender because Obama displaced a very popular with the female voter candidate, Hillary Clinton.

The Republicans chose a woman to run with McCain hoping to attract that female vote, banking on the hope that women voters would want so fervently to see a woman in the White House, that they would jump sides and vote for the team that had a member of their own gender on it, rather than keep their loyalty with the Democratic party. They, the Republicans, were hoping that women could not tell the difference between a "token" woman (Palin) and a qualified one, (Hillary) and were playing the gender card. It failed tremendously. Women chose by a substantial margin Obama.

Which is why I went on to elaborate that my 82 year old neighbor, who having lived an entire lifetime of striving to promote equality for women and having been egregiously discriminated against herself, instead of pushing her own agenda, (to see a woman in the White House) voted and worked very hard instead to support the better candidate Obama. Even knowing that at her age not having Palin in the White House meant that she would likely NEVER see a woman in the White House, she voted who she believed to be the best candidate, not to see her personal dream fulfilled however badly.

The point was that not only did Obama's race not cost him the white vote, even the great disappointment of many women voters in losing their opportunity to see a female President did not cost him the vote of women. White Americans overwhelmingly voted based on ideals. Not race. Not gender. Which should be evidence to those who claim that prejudice is still rampant, that this is not the case.

...Yet I never said anything about voters (black, white, or otherwise) at all!!

Were you addressing someone else?

I only mentioned that Obama is black according to america! (While he acknowledges his white heritage he calls himself a black man, married a black woman, went to a black church, ect...)

Can you see how your statement comes off as subtle racism?

Peace!

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Grand Puba]

reply posted on 10-11-2008 @ 05:14 PM by Grand Puba