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Originally posted by mybigunit
So he is an Anti Semite eh? He wants all the Jews dead eh? Ok then why doesnt he start with the 3% that is in his own country?
Why would he drop a nuke on Israel when it has the holiest of Muslim sites there?
I urge you to read up on some history before scathing me the facts are simple. Iran has invaded NO ONE in the past 100s of years.
We have been screwing with them heavily for the past 100 even giving Sadam Hussein chemical weapons to drop on them when Iraq invaded them. Call me what you want but dont forget to call me this...... right.
Despite constitutional guarantees of equality, individuals belonging to minorities in Iran, who are believed to number about half of the population of about 70 millions, are subject to an array of discriminatory laws and practices. These include land and property confiscations, denial of state and para-statal employment under the gozinesh criteria and restrictions on social, cultural, linguistic and religious freedoms which often result in other human rights violations such as the imprisonment of prisoners of conscience, grossly unfair trials of political prisoners before Revolutionary Courts, corporal punishment and use of the death penalty, as well as restrictions on movement and denial of other civil rights.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
He, and the whole Islamist state HAVE been doing just that. There were 125,000-150,000 Jews in Iran on the eve of the Revolution in 1979. There are fewer than 40,000 there today (the highest estimate I can find). Who knows why the have been leaving since Iran became Islamist. Maybe they find the climate inhospitable.
Wikipedia: Persian Jews
Jewish Virtual Library: Jews of Iran
I haven't said he would. But his predecessor, the "Liberal Cleric" Rafsanjani said Iran could survive a nuclear war that "obliterated Israel." He said this at a conference hosted by Achmedinejad himself, as new president. The title of the conference was "A world without Zionism." It was at this conference that A-jad said "Israel should be wiped off the map."
Iran Could Wipe Out Israel
So maybe you ought to ask him. Who knows, maybe he envisions using conventional forces to wipe out israel.
And other than the Afghanis, no one has .... INVADED Iran since it invaded the Ottoman Empire in 1725 and India in 1739. So, what's your point? That Iran today is so paranoid that it needs to finance insurgents in Iraq and Hezbollah in Lebanon to defend itself?
I'll settle for calling you strident.
Funny you bring up the chemical weapons, which Hussein famously dropped on the Kurds in his own country. then I got to thinking about how Iran treats its own minorities. Wikipedia gives a brief overview. Ethnic persians are right at 50% of the population, but totally control all government jobs and the apparatus of government. Ethnic non-persians seem to have trouble getting a trial before their hanging dates. And the government frequently confiscates houses and property of minorities without any due process whatever.
Wikipedia quoting Amnesty International:
Despite constitutional guarantees of equality, individuals belonging to minorities in Iran, who are believed to number about half of the population of about 70 millions, are subject to an array of discriminatory laws and practices. These include land and property confiscations, denial of state and para-statal employment under the gozinesh criteria and restrictions on social, cultural, linguistic and religious freedoms which often result in other human rights violations such as the imprisonment of prisoners of conscience, grossly unfair trials of political prisoners before Revolutionary Courts, corporal punishment and use of the death penalty, as well as restrictions on movement and denial of other civil rights.
wikipedia article
But pardon me for wandering off topic in an international policy thread. Personally, I think it typifies the sort of culture that the Islamic revolution has created. Does that sound like a pacific government that mourns the fact that it has no official relations with the USA, and wishes peaceful coexistence with all peoples?
all the bets.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Total Crap. Every president since the revolution in 1979 has offered formal relations, and been refused.
Originally posted by asmeone2
Of course it hasn't got anythign at all to do with the fact that he's the first president in decades to show a willingness to actually talk with the 'enemy' instead of spout on about his willingness to blow them away.
Originally posted by mybigunit
So with that lets go down the line....
Question have these Jews that are no longer in Iran have they been killed or have they left on their own free will? Also what about the Jews that represent in the Iranian government? My point to you is where as you say that Iran wants to eliminate all the Jews I say that is not true it is propaganda. Listen even if they dont like Jews that does not mean they want to eliminate them and frankly if they dont want Jews or gays or whatever in their country then isnt that their choice or is it American law is to be the law of the world?
The fact is he feels that force should NOT be used that in fact their should be elections that ALL the Palestinians should be able to vote on.
That vote is to be should Israel be allowed to take their land. Keep in mind that was Palestinian land until Israel claimed it as their own in the 50s.
Now in Israels defense they have won a few wars since then to solidify their place in the middle east so in a sense that land is now theirs. However that doesnt mean it still doesnt tick people off and that people may have opinions in regards to it. My point is is that it is not the job of America to ensure that Israel keeps their land.
But to go fight a country because they pose a threat to Israel is not right at all.
Frankly I dont think Iran is a threat and even if they were it is still not out job to be fighting all their wars. Just to let you know I feel this way about any country including the likes of Georgia or any other that does not have direct implications on America itself.
Iran was invaded by Iraq in the early 80s with the backing of the US government.
In fact if I remember right we funded insurgents in Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded didnt we?
We have funded all sorts of insurgents in South America to overthrow elected governments to install puppet governments havent we? Once again I recommend you read up on history and not the talking points that our government both Democrats and Republicans feed us.
all wars...to make someone money, period.
Hmm in a time when our government is nationalizing banks which in turn is nationalizing housing and a time when our government is nationalizing our auto industry, our airline industry, our insurance industry, and many others in the form of "bailouts" I dont think your or I should be dogging on the way any country does business.
Originally posted by Aggie Man
That is total crap, my friend! Bush never even tried to be diplomatic w/Iran.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
You're welcome to believe whatever you want about Iran. Just because someone doesn't believe the official version of the German extermination of Jews during WII ( as per Achedinejad ) doesn't automatically make them an anti-semite. But when you couple that one fact with another (his letter to Angela Merkel remarking on the way germany has been 'falsely accused' of genocide) and another (calling for the end of israel) it doesn't make him antisemitic per se.
But he spends a lot of energy on ill will toward people for various reasons, who coincidentally happen to be Jewish. I ask, how would his behavior be different if he were anti-semitic????
How about a vote in Iran, Iraq and Turkey to see if the Kurds could secede from those states and set up an independent Kurdistan? Maybe some of the other groups in Iran (who collectively are close to a majority in all measures except political representation) would like votes of their own......or we could proceed with the idea that many nations contain unhappy minorities.
Or maybe not. But there's a case to be made on both sides.
Not entirely true. Some cities, like Haifa were not majority-occupied or ruled by palestinians before 1948. Some cities like Safed, have been majority or entirely jewish since the 1500's.
Actually, when you get down to it, the Palestinians have never tuled that land.... there has NEVER been a palestinian state there in the past 1000 years. Before the British, it was ruled by the Ottoman TURKS. So the Palestinians didn't own it in any kind of a national sense.
On a private level, many of them were deprived of their land illegally. Almost like the jews had been in Europe. Hypocritical and Cynical, certainly; personally I feel like the current violence is a natural consequence of founding a state on bloodshed. But does this justify a whole new wave of blood, this time jewish flowing through the streets? And if Hamas isn't interested in a state like Lebanon was, with a vibrant blend of minorities, why would Jews ever willingly put their own future to an Islamist vote. Not picking sides here, just pointing out how things are on the ground.
Maybe we should give it back to the Ottomans..... Then Russia back to the Romanoffs, Austria back to the Hapsburgs, etc., ad nauseum. would that end the bloodshed---or guarantee it?
Any more than it is the job of IRAN to ensure that palestinians get theirs?
Would it be right, from my previous example, to fight Venezuela (or offer to), if they were on the verge of seizing dutch territory? If not, why not? If it would be justified, why not for Israel? Is israel less worthy of our defense than Korea or Vietnam?
I can understand your viewpoint; I disagree with it. I think that the fate of many nations around the world have implications for America. I mentioned the way Czechoslovakia was swallowed by Germany in 1938; I think that was a failure on many levels. A failure of foresight, courage, and even morals on the part of her allies.
Just because WII was fought by the japanese to make them richer, does that mean we shouldn't have fought them?
Is it possible for america to be involved in a war, anytime, anywhere, without us being the bad guy?
Hmmm. So we are not entitled to have an opinion on "the way any country does business." Does that apply to Ahmedinejad as well? Or is that just a rule for Americans????
You're pretty sure that Iran is none of our business; but Israel IS Iran's.
I'm just trying to figure out which rules the US should be playing by, and why they don't apply to anyone else.
Isn't that what the neo-cons are always accused of, wanting america to play by a separate set of rules??
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Originally posted by Aggie Man
That is total crap, my friend! Bush never even tried to be diplomatic w/Iran.
I've posted two sources saying he has tried to do so.
I'm two sources ahead of you.
.
Originally posted by Aggie Man
How hard did he try? I don't care what the sources eluded to, Bush has not acted diplomatically towards Iran.