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Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

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posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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"Actually, Jesus says if you do not hear his words, then it is the words of the father that you hear. And that the father will send the holy spirit to teach you all things that have been spoken to you."

*****??? What verse is that exactly. Not your paraphrase but what is the verse that you are citing? Secondly, Jesus words were heard by the disciples and by those that were eyewitnesses to is teachings and miracles. Jesus and God are one, as Jesus was God come to man by the virgin birth, living the perfect life to be the savior of man. All man as to do is repent and believe that Jesus Christ is savior, Romans 10:9

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

"Hate to tell ya, but you work iniquity and serve satan."

*****
Not sure what you are smoking but you should get your money back. You are paraphrasing the Bible and are in fact working in iniquity.

"John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

*notice it says he who do the commandments, not he who worships my image."

*****No one said about worshipping images. You are grabbing straws and are really confusing yourself.

"22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

*what about people who don't know Jesus, are they screwed?"

******You are being the religious zealot, tell me? Jesus Christ won't return until the gospel has been offered to everyone on Earth. So, unless you are the mini-Holy Spirit, God won't be reporting to you when he has made that happen.....so you better be ready anytime.

"*nope, as god is not limited to a simple book or image, he will find a way."

******God is not limited at all. He has provided us ONE BOOK and there is but ONE WAY to heaven and for him to hear our prayers. That one way is through Jesus Christ. There is not a second or third and the Bible is the only book.

"* and the father will send the holy ghost to reveal truth to you."

****He sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit when Jesus asended to Heaven. All we have to do is call upon him and the Holy Spirit will come into us.

If Jesus was never mentioned then it was not the Holy Spirit that you encountered. Jesus is God. Jesus was the way God came to us, and had fellowship. Jesus is the human conduit that he uses to have a personal relationship with him.

"And never once while in that time was the name Jesus every mentioned, only truth. Which as Jesus is the truth, was done in his name(truth)."

******John 14:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

John 14:4 You know the way to the place where I am going."

John 14:5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Image??? Jesus is God. You are worshipping God as they are the same. You are not worshipping his image, you are worshipping God and praying through Jesus as this is the reason he died and rose again.


Rom 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Rom 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--Rom 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

These verses are pretty clear. You can't pick and choose verses as you see fit. You must take the entire Bible as the KJV Bible is the only truth. New Age Religion would have you to believe the lie.




posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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Is the Pope a liar....? No, but he is mistaken and is assuming a role that is bigger than he is and a role he has no business assuming. They pray to Mary and Mary can't hear our prayers because she didn't die on the cross. Manmade religion is in all religions and deceiving many thousands.




reply to post by noobfun
 



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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you no more are serious than Bozo the clown. If you want the truth you will seek it. If you ask straight questions you get straight answers, but you won't with trap setting questions.




reply to post by noobfun
 



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by tgambill
"Actually, Jesus says if you do not hear his words, then it is the words of the father that you hear. And that the father will send the holy spirit to teach you all things that have been spoken to you."

*****??? What verse is that exactly. Not your paraphrase but what is the verse that you are citing?


I gave you the quote in my post, it's all from John 14.

The idol(Jesus) only carries the truth like a messenger from god. If you who worship the idol and do not take heed to what he taught are blind to the truth. The truth will be shown to all men who seek the truth. Those who knock on the door, will have the door opened for them(another quote).

When it says none will come to the father but by Jesus, Jesus is telling you that none will come to the father, except those who know and follow truth.

I was saved atleast 8 times when I was younger, by various different kinds of churches. I've been to them all at one time or another with friends. Not once when I was saved did anything actually change for me, not once.

At the age of 30, I start thinking about god, reality, consciousness and things of that nature. I had questions and started to seek answers for them. What happened is by asking these questions I was seeking. And those who seek will find. And I did. I then started seeing the truth repeated back to me in the words of Jesus, and here we are.



Secondly, Jesus words were heard by the disciples and by those that were eyewitnesses to is teachings and miracles. Jesus and God are one, as Jesus was God come to man by the virgin birth, living the perfect life to be the savior of man. All man as to do is repent and believe that Jesus Christ is savior, Romans 10:9

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."


These are not the words of Jesus. These are the words of Paul. See below for an explanation.



*****No one said about worshipping images. You are grabbing straws and are really confusing yourself.


Jesus talks about people who do things in his name(image) but their hearts are from from his. And read Matthew 7, he talks directly about this. Christians blindly follow symbolism/image and do not actually understand the lessons that are being said. By focusing on the image, rather than the teachings they are blind to the truth. As a result, people will wrap themselves in the symbolism and profess their love for Jesus, and they will lead people astray from the teachings of Jesus. This has been done in history many times.



You are being the religious zealot, tell me? Jesus Christ won't return until the gospel has been offered to everyone on Earth. So, unless you are the mini-Holy Spirit, God won't be reporting to you when he has made that happen.....so you better be ready anytime.


I belong to the religion of Jesus. You belong to the religion about Jesus. I put the importance in his message and philosophy, not in him as an idol. For me, the return of Jesus is the return of truth. You look for him to return and rule over the world, you look for a ruler(anti-christ). I look for truth to return to the world, when every person on the earth will see the truth and be enlightened and then the people will be freed, and take truth as authority, rather than authority as truth. For me, when truth is authority, that is equivalent to Jesus(truth) ruling over the world.

It is the anti-christ who becomes authority by claiming to be Jesus and then uses that authority to make people believe he is truth, and whatever he does it truth. Can you see that difference? The difference in taking authority(power) as truth, rather than truth as authority?



******God is not limited at all. He has provided us ONE BOOK and there is but ONE WAY to heaven and for him to hear our prayers. That one way is through Jesus Christ. There is not a second or third and the Bible is the only book.


Simply isn't true, sorry. This is a dogma created by those who use the symbolism as a means of fighting other symbols(divide and conquer). Anyone who understands truth, and puts truth as the most important thing knows god. Tell me, where does Jesus say that 1 book is going to be the only book with truth in it? As Jesus is truth, to put your trust in truth is to put your trust in Jesus.



If Jesus was never mentioned then it was not the Holy Spirit that you encountered. Jesus is God. Jesus was the way God came to us, and had fellowship. Jesus is the human conduit that he uses to have a personal relationship with him.


Words were never really spoken. Words are symbols and only the shadow of the truth. Nobody came along and said - this is what you must believe, this is what you must do. Not once, never. I was shown and given understanding. Truth and the search of it is the human conduit that gives a personal relationship with god. Jesus carried that truth and tried to tell people the truth to give them that personal relationship.



******John 14:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.


I do trust in Jesus(truth). I just don't trust men and institutions which wrap themselves up in his name, and blind people by promoting the man rather than the message. Jesus tried to give people truth and understanding, and instead of taking that gift of truth and understanding they sit around worshipping the person. It's about like giving a cat a bowl of milk, and the cat sits around licking the bowl instead of the milk.



John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Image??? Jesus is God. You are worshipping God as they are the same. You are not worshipping his image, you are worshipping God and praying through Jesus as this is the reason he died and rose again.


Jesus is the TRUTH and the way. The way to god is truth. If you understand Jesus, then you understand the truth. And the truth is your consciousness(soul) is god, and that we are all actually 1(John 14:20). God is the ultimate observer of all things. In reality, the only observer. On that day Jesus says you will realize this truth, and then after you will be comforted by the holy spirit. And that is exactly what I experienced. And I experienced it before I had any clue it was even in the bible - in fact, truly kind of freaked out when I seen it, but comforted me as well.

And then you go on to quote more from paul, who taught people to submit to authority while Jesus taught people they were the authority. If Paul learned from Jesus as the claim goes, then it should be easy to point out where Jesus said these things, and I will be happy to debate based on those. I can hardly take a book that tells people to submit to their masters(something Hitler and the catholic church loved) serious when Jesus always talked against such things.

Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.




[edit on 15-11-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by tgambill
you no more are serious than Bozo the clown. If you want the truth you will seek it. If you ask straight questions you get straight answers, but you won't with trap setting questions.


no im deadly serious but you wont answer a straight question so i tried another means

i make claims from the bible and back them up with bible verse

i make claims of the bibles age and authorship and back it up with research and evidence

you make claims then ignore requests for evidence

you make claims catholosism is wrong but insist your right without substanciating it

you calim the bible is eye witness accoiunts written by those who were there but show no proof

the only trap appears to be your own thought process and self delusion

ready straight question. now give me an honest answer backed up by some shred of evidence you didnt quote mine from a wiki article that says the opposite of what you claim, and no a bible verse is only proof of what the bible says not its accuracy

when was the old testament written and by whom?

when were the various books of the new testament written and by whom?

as stated quoting bible verse will prove yourself wrong
quote mining will prove your self wrong
saying find it your self will make you an ass



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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"no im deadly serious but you wont answer a straight question so i tried another means"

*****No, you are deadly serious about smoke and mirrors. I have given you straight answers, but answers that you don't like.

"i make claims from the bible and back them up with bible verse"

*****You spin the verses pretending that you have found one that supports your position but not willing to take a second look as to the distinct possibility that you could be interpreting it wrong or God forbid that you are spinning it on purpose.

"i make claims of the bibles age and authorship and back it up with research and evidence"

****The Bible goes back to thousands of years, written by eyewitnesses, and the last book of the Bible was written by the Apostle John while on the Island of Patmos between 75-90 AD.

"you make claims then ignore requests for evidence"

*****Its a shell game. I give you evidence and then you use the typical methods of errant debunking.

"you make claims catholosism is wrong but insist your right without substanciating it "

*****you generalize comments to make expanded general claims, me saying "Catholicism is wrong" when I never said this, but I did say words to the effect that there exists incorrect dogma, or manmade dogma not found in the Bible.

"you calim the bible is eye witness accoiunts written by those who were there but show no proof"

****Wrong, I gave you a list of the books and authors that wrote them.

"the only trap appears to be your own thought process and self delusion"

*****You see this is why I don't take this as serious as you would like to imply. In other words here is an example of smoke and mirrors using personal attacks and errant labeling to distract from truth. This is sure indication that you are lying about being "interested"........

"ready straight question. now give me an honest answer backed up by some shred of evidence you didnt quote mine from a wiki article that says the opposite of what you claim, and no a bible verse is only proof of what the bible says not its accuracy"

*****You see, any reference outside of the Bible will be written by man. Man is not by any stretch of the imagination credible with the New Age Movement BS, or they are from an atheistic group floating around the internet trying to debunk truth for 8 dollars an hour....
) while they are selling their souls life in eternity for 8 dollars an hour and an eternity in Hell for money. If the reference is about the Bible, the author will refer to the Bible anyway......
)

"when was the old testament written and by whom?"

*******The Old Testament was written mostly in Hebrew, with a few short passages in Aramaic. About 100 years before the Christian Era teh Entire Old Testament was translated into Greek. The New Testament was written in the Greek Language. You will find that the Old Testament is the covenant God made with man about his salvation before Christ came. Man was under judgment and harsh law because Jesus had not yet come to be. Man was considered under sin and therefore separated from God with no salvation or forgiveness. However, the messiah was the sacrafice and the salvation that was given in prophesy to one day come to take all the sins of man on his shoulders and then you know that in the New Testament, Romans 10:9 among others reflect this free gift of salvation. Jesus was God in human form his way of communicating with man on his level. He in essence took his own punishment in the form of Jesus. I would call that pretty good leadership skills.....So the New Testament, [new covenant], is the agreement God made with man about his salvation after Jesus Christ came. So in essence we find the covenant of LAW in the Old Testament. In the New Testament we find the you will find the covenant of grace which came through Jesus Christ. One led to the other, Galatians 3:17-25.

"when were the various books of the new testament written and by whom?"

*****The authors were kings, princes, poets, and Philosophers, prophets, and statement. Some were learned in all the arts of the times and others were unschooled fishermen. Other books written by man soon are out of date, but the bible spans the centuries. The OT is the foundation; the NT is the superstructure. You have to read it in its completness and not verse by verse, and in many cases debunkers will take one verse and design a fictional spin to basically lie about the true meaning.

authors: www.gotquestions.org...

"as stated quoting bible verse will prove yourself wrong"
****No, quoting Bible verses is the only truth that you will find. You can't prove one wrong in the correct context. You have to spin it like you can manipulate Statistics and make is say whatever you want but it won't be right.....you will lie or deceive people who don't study it.

"quote mining will prove your self wrong"

*****Quote mining is called research in the normal world. Not sure which one you come from.

"saying find it your self will make you an ass "

****Says you the one who "is really looking for truth"
) try again







reply to post by noobfun
 



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by tgambill
They pray to Mary and Mary can't hear our prayers because she didn't die on the cross.

That's funny. How would you know who can and can't hear our prayers?
You have absolutely no way of knowing. None.

Asking those who have died before us to help is common practice in many religions around the world. And considering how many people actually receive help - or claim that their prayers were answered - your statement appears to be false.

Being put to death on the cross is not any kind of criteria for activity in the afterlife.


Originally posted by tgambill
There are 30% of the Catholic clergy that are pedifiles.


actually less than one tenth of one percent of Catholic priests are known to have been actively involved in pedophilia. Your 30% figure is dead wrong.




[edit on 11/15/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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"That's funny. How would you know who can and can't hear our prayers?
You have absolutely no way of knowing. None."

******Isaiah 45:21: "There is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me."

John 14:6 \: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

I can provide many more but these sufice. Mary did not die for the sins of mankind and be resurrected from death.


Asking those who have died before us to help is common practice in many religions around the world. And considering how many people actually receive help - or claim that their prayers were answered - your statement appears to be false.

********You cannot announce that prayers have not been answered because if you do your research you will find that it is contrary to what you say.

Being put to death on the cross is not any kind of criteria for activity in the afterlife.

******Being put on the cross is a criteria for Jesus to suffer for our sins, if the creator of the Universe says so. You sure didn't create anything and certainly can't set the standards. The Bible says so, it is true.

Do your research....................leave personal opinion out of it.

"It's impossible, of course, to accurately determine the percentage of gay men among the nearly 25,000 priests active in the priesthood and in our seminaries. Studies suggest that perhaps 30 to 50 percent of priests (especially those under 50) are homosexual in orientation, compared with about 5 percent in the population at large. In the United States alone, more than 20,000 priests have left active ministry since 1970, most to marry. While gay priests have also resigned in significant numbers, the priesthood has lost a sizable proportion of its heterosexually oriented members."

www.boston.com...

www.priestsofdarkness.com...





reply to post by FlyersFan
 



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by tgambill
*****No, you are deadly serious about smoke and mirrors. I have given you straight answers, but answers that you don't like.
no you quoted a totally irrelevant bible verse


*****You spin the verses pretending that you have found one that supports your position but not willing to take a second look as to the distinct possibility that you could be interpreting it wrong or God forbid that you are spinning it on purpose.
by spin you mean dont agree whole heartedly with you interpretation

i have been proven wrong in the past i accepted and said thanks, you however wernt the person doing it


****The Bible goes back to thousands of years, written by eyewitnesses, and the last book of the Bible was written by the Apostle John while on the Island of Patmos between 75-90 AD.
and still no evidence other then you saying it?


*****Its a shell game. I give you evidence and then you use the typical methods of errant debunking.
im still waiting for any evidence other then what you told me which isnt evidence just what you told me

the only shell game is you dancing them around the question so as not to answer


*****you generalize comments to make expanded general claims, me saying "Catholicism is wrong" when I never said this, but I did say words to the effect that there exists incorrect dogma, or manmade dogma not found in the Bible.
you declared them biased and untruthful when i showed you what the catholic church said about the authorship

you said they were wrong you then posted a whole list of stuff to show why they were wrong and biased, which included them them making a change so babaies dont go to hell and for some reason some stuff about a protestant preacher or 2 as well


****Wrong, I gave you a list of the books and authors that wrote them.
??? what where?


*****You see this is why I don't take this as serious as you would like to imply. In other words here is an example of smoke and mirrors using personal attacks and errant labeling to distract from truth. This is sure indication that you are lying about being "interested"........
i made no claim on how serious or unserious you are, and were both guilty of ad hominims


*****You see, any reference outside of the Bible will be written by man. Man is not by any stretch of the imagination credible with the New Age Movement BS, or they are from an atheistic group floating around the internet trying to debunk truth for 8 dollars an hour....
) while they are selling their souls life in eternity for 8 dollars an hour and an eternity in Hell for money. If the reference is about the Bible, the author will refer to the Bible anyway......
)
well as we have copies of mark with 4 slightlky different ending from before the kjv was made and i beleive its Timothy had a extra section added at the end all befor again the kjv the bible is also subject to mans falability


*******The Old Testament was written mostly in Hebrew, with a few short passages in Aramaic. About 100 years before the Christian Era teh Entire Old Testament was translated into Greek. The New Testament was written in the Greek Language.
no author then?


*****The authors were kings, princes, poets, and Philosophers, prophets, and statement. Some were learned in all the arts of the times and others were unschooled fishermen.
again you wont actually say more shell games and no dating and no evidence to support had you made an actual claim


****No, quoting Bible verses is the only truth that you will find. You can't prove one wrong in the correct context. You have to spin it like you can manipulate Statistics and make is say whatever you want but it won't be right.....you will lie or deceive people who don't study it.
it already sufferes the infalability of mans hand so its maybe not as truthful as you insist?


*****Quote mining is called research in the normal world. Not sure which one you come from.
well i come form a place where quote mining means to use a small piece of an article or written comment to prove a point which misrepresents what the article it self is actually about


****Says you the one who "is really looking for truth"
) try again
im always looking for truth, when im shown it ill accept it

you havnt so as yet theres nothing new to accept

all i can say is may allah forever walk with you in times of trouble
and watch out for crocodiles while your swimming


[edit on 15/11/08 by noobfun]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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[Those who knock on the door, will have the door opened for them(another quote).
When it says none will come to the father but by Jesus, Jesus is telling you that none will come to the father, except those who know and follow truth.]



Sorry ..but that is not true ..it does not say that ...

He (JESUS) is the door (And notice he says he that entereth not by the door (The door being JESUS ) .they are a theif and a robber by trying to climb up some other way ............................and he stands at your door and knocks (See verses below)

And he will someday SHUT that door and when you come a knocking ..he wont open it when your knocking on his door . ...(that is a very sobering thought isnt it ?)
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jhn 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Jhn 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Jhn 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.



[edit on 15-11-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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[Those who knock on the door, will have the door opened for them(another quote).

When it says none will come to the father but by Jesus, Jesus is telling you that none will come to the father, except those who know and follow truth.]

******this is true. No, it means that only those that come by Jesus will be allowed into Heaven. Jesus is the only way. What yo don't understand is the context of the verse and most importantly the timing of this quote. This is after the Rapture and at the day of Judgment that the door is closed. The door closes when we die, or when the day of judgment comes....whichever is first. Truth is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit which is to say that all three are the same. God is the creator of all things, Jesus is God as he comes down to be personal with us in the form of the risen Jesus....and the Holy Spirit is the way God is in touch with all humans on Earth at the same time. I can provide you verse after verse that says that Jesus is the only way and that Jesus IS God in human form.


"Sorry ..but that is not true ..it does not say that ... "

*****Sorry but it does say that. Provide me additional verses or just one that supports what you say not in your words but the words of God as he says in HIS Bible.





reply to post by Simplynoone
 



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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As predicted and anticipated you refuse to accept the truth per the Bible and research. I know that you have not done the research except to back up your own spin. If you do the research with a neutral approach and looking for truth you will find it. I'm good to go, its you that will either find or reject truth. Good luck.........






reply to post by noobfun
 



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


ok took a look at that list and theres somthing odd i know it says the disciples are the actual ones that wrote it im not gonan go through a whole list why thats unlikley becaseu you will just say im spinnign everything which ive decided means not agreeing with you 100%

but this caught my attention


Luke = Luke - A.D. 60


now luke first 2 verses

1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

he is saying he wasnt an eyewitness but the message came to him from one

but isnt luke supposed to be a disciple that was runing around with jesus so would have been an eye witness to teach not been taught by an eye witness



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


But Jesus is the truth. He symbolizes the truth. Therefore, if you try to enter based on anything but the truth, then you are the robber/thief as you try to enter based on lies.

As Jesus is the truth, where you see his name it also means truth. Truth fits in those verses very well don't you think?

Jesus = truth
Truth = sets you free.

Lies = imprisonment and turning a blind eye to the truth.

I have done many deep thoughts and things about this, and you know I dislike the idol. It's not that I dislike Jesus, what he was or any of that. It's just that images can be distorted, and as they can be distorted, you simply can not trust them. It says even Satan can appear to be good. And in many cases, people do think those things are good.

If you are looking for "Jesus", then you can and probably will be fooled by image. Many people look to fill that role and gain the benefits. The bible warns about this as well. But if you realize Jesus is truth, and you stick to that truth, then you will not be fooled. You will know them by their fruits, not their image. As Jesus is truth, you will know him by that and when you find truth, you are that much closer to him, your heart is close.

As Jesus is truth, how would you be able to find truth and it not be finding Jesus?



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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I have a good one.

What's the difference between a Star Wars fan and a Bible fan?

... I don't know of any differences... but I can tell you the Similarities.


Both go to very irrational extents to lash out on people that insult their beliefs(For a Star Wars fan it would be 'STAR WARS IS STUPID AND BORING', and for Bible fans it would be 'THERE IS NO GOD'.)

Both get extremely upset when someone tries to prove their beliefs wrong (Star Wars fan, "HERE, HERE'S PROOF THAT STAR WARS IS BORING."; Bible fan, "HERE IS PROOF THERE'S NO GOD!")

Both despise people that believe in another rival things (Star Wars fans dislike fans of other SciFi movies and fans of copy-cats of Star wars; Bible fan dislike people of other religious beliefs that go against their own.)

The conclusion? The Bible is the greatest work of Science Fiction in history... think about it. 'Moses' and the ark with two of each animal from across the world into it before the flood, Moses parting the Red Sea in a place that doesn't even have water today, that guy that climbed up to a mountain and met God and got the Ten Commandments, Adam and Eve, the reason humanity is split into different languages is 'because humans were too smart and tried to built a tower of stairs to get to heaven themselves'.

First of all, a tower of stairs leading up into the sky would of reached up to the moon or something, not Heaven. Second, Moses finding 2 of each kind of animal in the time-frame he had would be near impossible because he would of had to travel around the world to get the animals even to undiscovered America for some of the types. Third, the story of Moses parting a sea is ridiculous because the place where Moses supposedly parted it.. is a desert. Fourth, the Adam and Eve story is deeply flawed because of the fact the names 'Adam' and 'Eve' were non-existent until Latin founded them in the early Medieval Age... in the same century the Bible was written. So, basically, the Bible is a work of fiction. Tadah, end of rant.



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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Jesus is not an idol, he is God incarnate in Jesus. He is not a messenger from God, he is God. You have no verses that supports the assertion that he is only a messenger. He is the only begotten [because Mary gave birth as a virgin], son of God. He was God in human form so that he could be born as man, live as man, minister with the new covenant, become sin and be crucified and then rise again to defeat death. He is the ONLY way to God the Father. Any other way is taking in the new Age Religion and it’s the false religion of the anti-Christ yet to come. Oprah is wrong, Robert Shueller is wrong and now Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, Copeland, Hagee, Pat Robertson and many more are falling away from the Truth as the Bible has predicted as the falling away of the church. ONLY through Jesus can you receive true salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work

Jesus says that he is truth. They are the same. Yes, none will come to the Father, except those who know and follow truth. Jesus has brought us truth. The Son of God, Jesus Christ created the Universe. He has no beginning and was not created. John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16-17. Yes, he was born of the virgin Mary, but that was the only way he could come into this world or our dimension. The verse in Colossians is referring to Jesus [God] as well as being God.
The verses John 1: 1-18; Phil 2:1-11; and Col 1: 15:20 according to the Christians illustrate that Jesus was/is God. And that the was here first even before his birth as Jesus in human form.
Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9; Rev 6:2, 19:12-13)
Psalms 68:17-18; Ephesians 4:7-8
Psalms 102:1, 25-27; Hebrews 1:8-12
Matthew 4:10
Matthew 20:28
Matthew 21:16
Matthew 22:44-45
Matthew 28:18
John 1:4
John 1:18
John 5:19
John 5:23
John 5:25
John 9:38
John 14:6
Mark 2:5, 7, 10
Acts 10:25-26
Romans 10:9-13
2 Corinthians 13:14
Philippians 2:10
Colossians 2:9
1 Timothy 1:16-17
2 Timothy 4:18
Hebrews 13:6
James 1:17
Revelation 1:6
If you didn’t change it was on you for some reason. You have to repent and believe Jesus Christ is savior. By the fact we are still discussing this after your alleged 8 times means the 8 times you didn’t take Jesus As savior or didn’t fully believe in your heart.

The words of Paul come from Jesus and his ministry and inspiration from the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended.
Paul received inspiration from the Holy Spirit and as you know, The Father [God], Jesus [God] and the Holy Spirit [God] are all the same. Each one has a different purpose that God fulfills as God. Romans was a letter to a group of believers in Rome. The fact that it expresses mighty, profound and sublime thoughts about God does not keep it invalidate it as being a letter. As ALL of the books of the Bible they are developed by inspiration from the Holy Spirit which is the same as God and Jesus.

People are blind to the truth because they don’t seek the truth. There is nothing in the scripture about “focusing on an image”. This is mans effort to confuse the truth. If someone told you this, Pastor, Rabbi, Priest whomever, they are part of the New Age Movement and this is wrong. They can’t give you any verse that supports this. Ask them too and I’ll challenge it in a heartbeat and show you.

I belong to the Jesus Christ professing one of many verses but as a sample, Romans 10:9. He is not an Idol, he is God. God will not hear our prayers unless they are in the Name of Jesus in accordance with the very words of Jesus himself. Jesus himself will physically return to Earth after the Tribulations in accordance with prophesy from the Bible. Before he returns we will see a “messiah” a “Christ” that will be a false Messiah and he will declare himself God. Daniel 9:27. This enlightened truth will be Lucifer and the reference to the Illuminati. Lucifer will come into being a short time as the anti-Christ after he is shot and comes back to life. He will have only 7 years of reign. Then Jesus will return and with only a word he [Satan/Lucifer] will be chained for 1,000 years to be released one more time. After this defeat, he will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity with all those that have followed him. You better check this out in scripture



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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[*this is true. No, it means that only those that come by Jesus will be allowed into Heaven. Jesus is the only way. What yo don't understand is the context of the verse and most importantly the timing of this quote. This is after the Rapture and at the day of Judgment that the door is closed. The door closes when we die, or when the day of judgment comes....whichever is first. Truth is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit which is to say that all three are the same. God is the creator of all things, Jesus is God as he comes down to be personal with us in the form of the risen Jesus....and the Holy Spirit is the way God is in touch with all humans on Earth at the same time. I can provide you verse after verse that says that Jesus is the only way and that Jesus IS God in human form.

"Sorry ..but that is not true ..it does not say that ... "
*****Sorry but it does say that. Provide me additional verses or just one that supports what you say not in your words but the words of God as he says in HIS Bible.]



The truth is Jesus ...and that he is the door ...and there is only ONE DOOR to the Father ..and that is his son who is HEIR to the Kingdom ..No other is that KING and Heir to the Kingdom ...
There is only ONE mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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BM, you are double speaking like in a philosophy Class. No disrespect intended but this is not right. Jesus brougth us truth. The Bible is Gods holy word and the sword as spoken by Jesus. Jesus was on the cross, and suffered, and became our savior. Truth is what the Bible brings us over 1,600 years, by 44 different authors writing 66 different books. You are giving truth a personality, arms and legs and putting it on the cross. Jesus is the only way to God as the Bible says thoughout. Mary wasn't sacrificed, and therefore didn't become sin and didn't suffer, she does not hear prayers because if she did, the Jesus suffered for nothing. Deception is Satans' way of leading mankind from Jesus the only ticket. The New Age Religion is by his design through mankind, saying that there are many different ways to God.

There are many who are unaware of the New Age Movement and do not know how to even detect the signs of this spreading belief system. Yes…belief system. This is truly dangerous because ALL people are being directly affected today.

What are some of the beliefs of New Age philosophy.

1. God is All. God is in All. We are therefore God-like.

2. We can achieve transformation of self to a higher enlightenment.

3. If we unite and share the same belief system there can be peace in this world.

4. We are not accountable to anyone but ourselves.

5. There is no such thing as sin. Therefore we are not in need of forgiveness.

6. Being spiritual is based in mysticism and its techniques.

7. All religions lead to God.

8. Your spiritual life is based on feelings and emotions.

9. There is a higher knowledge available to the spiritual elite.

10. Humans can attain perfection and are divine.

11. Evil is a misperception of reality.

12. All judgments and values are relative… not truth.

13. Change is always good.

14. Jesus was a good man and prophet but not the Son of God.

This list is not exhaustive by any means and there are many facets to each belief. But you may be thinking, Hey….none of these things have affected me or family and friends. Well….Let’s see.

Have you joined a “green” movement to save the earth?

Do you know anyone who participates in Yoga, acupunture, or therapeutic massage?

Have you or a friend ever purchased a crystal to wear or dangle from your rearview mirror, or a message rock to keep in your pocket?

Do you read your horoscope or put any stock in your “sign”?

Ever used a Ouija board?

Joke about having the “Force” in Star Wars?

Ever seen anyone use a divining rod?

How about the pendulum over a pregnant women’s stomach at a baby shower to see if it is girl or a boy?

Tarot Cards?

Have you ever been asked to do any practice with meditation or visualizaion at a seminar at work?

Do you know anyone who has tried one of the spells performed by Harry Potter in his books or movies?

Ever had your palm read?…Fortune read by a Medium?

Have you studied Feng Shui in a room setting for universal life energy?

Have you ever spelled out the word “witch” with your muffin crumbs? (just kidding)

Let’s see…what else….tea leaf reading, numerology, ESP, psychic powers, spirit guides, scrying, ball gazing, auras, astrology, omen interpretation, runes, astral travel… yep,..all occult.

It is my belief that the church is responsible for preparing Christians for the end time deceptions. All faiths will be accepted into the New Age One World Religion except Christianity. Why? Because of Jesus and who He really is, the Son of God, the only way to the Father. So what are the differences between the New Age and Christianity?

***************

The New Age teaches that enlightenment is the way to salvation.

Christianity teaches that grace and faith in Jesus Christ is our salvation.

***************

The New Age teaches that there are many ways to God.

Christianity teaches that there is only one way, through Jesus Christ.

***************

The New Age teaches that you are reincarnated till you get it right.

Christianity teaches that man dies once and then will be judged.

***************

The New Age teaches that Jesus was a good man, a prophet.

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God.

****************

The New Age teaches that the second coming is happening within all who are enlightened.

Christianity teaches that Jesus will physically come to earth again in judgment.

**************

The New Age teaches that the Bible is wrong and needs to be corrected.

Christianity teaches that the Word is inerrant and that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

**************

The New Age teaches that sin doesn’t exist.

Christianity teaches that if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves.

**************

The New Age teaches a new way to pray with chanting and eastern meditation.

Christianity teaches we are to use a prayer like the Lord’s prayer, as Jesus taught us, and not use vain repetitions.

**************

The New Age teaches that pleasures are here to be taken and this is our purpose.

Christianity teaches that our purpose is to give God glory.

**************

To those around you who may be involved in the New Age/Emergent church: Pray for them, study the Word so you can present the truth, be kind..loving and patient.. and tell them what the Lord has done in your life. Be a godly example and walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. Ask Him to fill you with the Holy Spirit who will give you the words you need to say. If you stumble it is okay….just remember,

Isaiah 55:11. ” So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and acheive the purpose for which i sent it.”



kimolsen.wordpress.com...



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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keep the truth coming, we don't have much time in our corners of the world. He is coming soon, but so is the Anti-Christ if he isnt' here already.


reply to post by Simplynoone
 



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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It seems that we agree that Jesus is the only way.......simple.



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