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Christians, is there a time to judge? Ever?

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posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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I'm asking this because I'm not 100% sure... And who better to ask than the ATSer's...

I'm looking for hard core Christians that can really tell me what's up...

Is it ok to to judge someone? If not please explain, also, if it is ever ok to judge someone please give me an example... Because...

I would think it would be ok if you yourself never committed the same act of sin... My example of this would be, you are married, your wife cheats on you... It would be ok to judge her for her actions... or would it not?




posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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The Bible says to Judge with righteous judgment because you will be judged by that same yardstick. So in your example I would say yes you can judge a cheating spouse as immoral, as long as you're not doing it to...

That whole log out of your eye before the splinter out of your neighbors comes to mind also.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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I personally feel that there is never a good or right time to judge. Judge not less ye be judged. I know that I would prefer to not be judged and the good ole golden rule of treat others how you wish to be treated is a great way to live life. I think judging falls into that rule and that if you want to be judged, then judge away, but if you don't want to be judged, then don't judge others.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
The Bible says to Judge with righteous judgment because you will be judged by that same yardstick. So in your example I would say yes you can judge a cheating spouse as immoral, as long as you're not doing it to...

That whole log out of your eye before the splinter out of your neighbors comes to mind also.


What book and verse is this in the bible?



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Lol I had this exact the same debate with my christian friend.

Here's the verses:



Matthew 7

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

BibleGateway.com

Basically, Christians CANNOT judge others according to these verses. That includes the so called "righteous judgment".

theindependentjournal:


The Bible says to Judge with righteous judgment because you will be judged by that same yardstick. So in your example I would say yes you can judge a cheating spouse as immoral, as long as you're not doing it to...


Not according to these verses. It doesn't matter if you have not cheated. You may have done something else wrong. Or maybe you will cheat in the future. Also, no one knows what the others have gone through in their lives.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Deaf Alien]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
The Bible says to Judge with righteous judgment because you will be judged by that same yardstick. So in your example I would say yes you can judge a cheating spouse as immoral, as long as you're not doing it to...


I like that explanation,... but also I would like to include that we should also pray for the people that we lay down these righteous judgements upon... ya know, Pray for your enemies and all that. Jesus said: to what reward is it if you only love those that love you?

I found that it's good for my soul to pray for Bush & Cheaney rather than hate on them. However, this is far much easier said than done.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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I'm not necessarily a "hard-core" Christian but..... To answer your question no, not really god is the judge. John 8:7 "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUncleSam
 


Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I noticed the poster below my original post decidedly left out John 7, I have to believe they did this on purpose to try to make me appear as a liar. Sorry to prove you wrong about never judging, but I did include your verses also so ne could say I had all bases covered from a Biblical standpoint in my original post.

I should change my name to the Bible Answer Man...

I have to add this, THE BOOK OF JUDGES... GOD set up Judges amongst the 12 tribes to settle disputes and JUDGE what was the right solution. Today every Jury and some Judges make Judgments as do most people.

Is O.J. Guilty? The Jury said no, how many people differ with that and aren't you Judging?

Is i ok to rape children and women? Isn't that a judgment?

Let's try not to use the Bible to misconstrue your notions of what is right or wrong to do. The Bible is pretty clear about most things when properly interpreted. As for the cast no stone verse, CMON, that is about KILLING someone in a stoning, that has nothing to do with Judging per se... Let's keep to the context shall we...

[edit on 11/6/2008 by theindependentjournal]


JSR

posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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IMO Matthew 7 is trying to explain the laws of the universe in a weird sort way.

meaning....what you give to the world, the world will return to you.

using your example, your wife cheats on you. why would you judge her? by what basis are you judging her? is it by Jesus' mandates? to be more like Jesus?

then you should make all attempts to understand and forgive the break of the covenant that was promised at the alter. for breaking the trust that was entered into by way of marriage.

the only judgment that should be made is weather or not you are willing to endure the pain and frustration that will ensue while making the attempt to understand, adjust, and forgive. but, that would not be a judgment cast upon someone else.

in short, there is no wrong or right with respect to judgment. you will however ( in some way ) be held to the standards in which you exact on others. you get what you give.....so give love, always.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by JSR
 


I agree with most of what you say. I hope I didn't leave an impression that we shouldn't forgive, put ourselves in others shoes, pray for or other such things. I was trying to answer the OP's question of whether is was right or not.

Let me give another example of judging that everyone does if I may.

If you are a male heterosexual, you make a JUDGMENT against all males out of hand in looking for a mate, or sex. Same for the other sexes and other sexual preferences. We all make judgments all the time based on our likes and dislikes, beliefs and disbelief.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by ElectricUncleSam
 


Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

And what is "righteous judgment?" Give few examples.



I noticed the poster below my original post decidedly left out John 7, I have to believe they did this on purpose to try to make me appear as a liar.

That was not my intention. Sorry if it appeared that way.



I have to add this, THE BOOK OF JUDGES... GOD set up Judges amongst the 12 tribes to settle disputes and JUDGE what was the right solution. Today every Jury and some Judges make Judgments as do most people.

That's judicial, not private judgment.



Is O.J. Guilty? The Jury said no, how many people differ with that and aren't you Judging?

Me? I couldn't care less.



Is i ok to rape children and women? Isn't that a judgment?

That is what the judicial system is for.



As for the cast no stone verse, CMON, that is about KILLING someone in a stoning, that has nothing to do with Judging per se... Let's keep to the context shall we...

Jesus' point was that no one is without blame.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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It is human nature to judge others. We all do it.

Jesus came not to judge, but to forgive. He forgave sins all the time, without question, without reservation. In one episode that comes to mind, Jesus was approached by men with a woman who was guilty of a crime. These men tested Him, and His loyalty to their Law of Moses, by explaining the situation, including the fact that the prescribed punishment was death by stoning.

Jesus knelt to the ground and scribbled something there. What it was we do not know. But we do know His answer: "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I interpret this as Him saying, in a more modern context, "OK, go ahead. That is the law. But if you are to judge her, you have to be free from judgment yourself first."

The story ends with the men leaving, ashamed (I would assume for their imperfections when faced with them). Left alone, Jesus asked the woman where her accusers had gone. She replied that they had left. Jesus then answered with the most profound words I know of in the New testament: "Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more." Jesus could have judged her; He was sinless. Yet, He refused to do so.

A large part of being a Christian is the initial acceptance that we are not perfect; we are humans and with that humanity comes the desire to sin against others. None of us, not one, are able to stand before God shamelessly. As such, any judgment we mete must be tempered with the realization that we are no better than those we judge.

Can a thief judge another for theft? Could Charles Manson judge someone for murder? But since all sin is sin in the eyes of God, when we decide to judge another person, we do exactly that.

In the end, I do not believe (and yes, I have a Biblical reference for this, if someone wants it) that God will be the one who decides our guilt or innocence. God is the ultimate Judge, yes, but in our system today, the judge only presides and forces adherence to the law. So will God do in the final reckoning. The jury, the ones who decide guilt or innocence, will be ourselves, based not on what we think, but on God's terms. I cannot stand to that judgment. Can anyone here?

We have an advocate in Jesus who will allow us to stand on His forgiveness. But in order to obtain that forgiveness, that pardon if you will, we must do toward others as He has done to us. We receive full and total forgiveness through Jesus, and thus we must give full and total forgiveness to others. If a spouse cheated on you, you have every 'right' to judge him/her. But if that same spouse asked for forgiveness, can you refuse it, knowing that Jesus has already forgiven your much more serious crimes against Him?

The end decision is yours. You may judge if you wish. I prefer not to do so, but rather to grant forgiveness when asked. I follow Jesus (in my own bumbling, flawed way) and where I can see what he has done for me, I choose to do the same for others. As He did.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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We are not to judge others, but there are ways to make right judgements.

A woman was brought to Jesus, who was caught in the act of adultery and they basically wanted his consent to start stoning her, but that wasn't the right judgement. He told them, whoever had never committed any sin - be the first to throw a rock. They all had to put their rocks down.

An example of a right judgement would be if two women both came before God to ask for forgiveness and you happened to be a fly on the wall. One of the women had only cheated once, but the other had done it time and time again. He forgives both of them but which one will end up loving God more? The more repentful of the two. That is considered a right judgement.



[edit on 6-11-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
I'm asking this because I'm not 100% sure... And who better to ask than the ATSer's...


Good thread topic and am interested in hearing some of the answers myself.


Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
Is it ok to to judge someone? If not please explain, also, if it is ever ok to judge someone please give me an example... Because...

I would think it would be ok if you yourself never committed the same act of sin... My example of this would be, you are married, your wife cheats on you... It would be ok to judge her for her actions... or would it not?


There's a difference between judging people and knowing right from wrong.

As quoted above, we're not to judge other people. Period. Unless we are without sin (and we're all sinners), we shouldn't be wagging our finger and yelling, "You sinner!" This is the hypocrisy Christ was talking about.

Regarding knowing right from wrong and judging an action, we are Biblically encouraged to do so:

"This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place." - Jeremiah 22:3

"I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say." - 1 Corinthians 10:15

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" - 1 Corinthians 11:13

"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good." - Romans 12:9

"But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." - Hebrews 5:14

So who decides what is good and evil? That is best facilitated by a close relationship with God through Christ:

"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God." - 3 John 1:11

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—" - John 10:14

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28

Hopefully this helps and would be glad to clarify if there's question.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Thanks for elaborating Redneck


Star for you.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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Jesus loved the sinner, not the sin!


Peace



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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If you have been harmed by others love them for they have much to learn. In your ignorance you have harmed others yet in that understanding there is beauty. Be mindfull of those who you tread upon in learning. Be mercifull of those who tread upon you in their blindness, because you to where once blind. What judgement can you give when you have no ground to stand on from which to judge? We are all in the mud.

So there would be no "judgement" a terrible mistake can teach a wonderfull lesson. In an instant who you thought you were could die.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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why would anyone judge another unless they knew for sure that they knew EVERYTHING there is to know? If there is any point of doubt in any one of any theory you as a human may have, then you must assume you do not have all the fact and cannot place judgment on anything. You can however, make an observation based on your experiences, and decide to always forgive because both parties are most likely not privy to knowing every single bit of data in reality thus allowing them to make mistakes or foul judgments.

This doesnt come from the bible, just contemplative thoughts. But I'm sure the bible says a lot of the same things.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Judge those that judge you...and try to leave it at that.

The Christians judge people so as to discredit them before they discredit the church...kinda smart, but since we know what they are up to, it doesn't matter...




posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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No. Never.

He that is without sin, let him first cast a stone.

Nor should Christians rabidly evangelize.

But then Again, Christianity today 'shouldn't be' so to speak, it goes against its own teachings.

So I guess, yes, modern Christians should judge all the time. Judge everyone. If they aren't judging everyone else, and those peoples morals, then they probably are not actually Christians. In fact, instead of maintaing a personal, private relationship with God and Jesus, they should also make sure that they build mega churches with rock and roll light shows and lasers. With megawatt PA systems to better judge everyone in the evangelizing on Sundays while they are meeting with gay prostitutes for Meth fueled orgies during the rest of the week.

WWJD?

Not what is going on, that is for sure....
DocMoreau



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