Guy Fawkes Day

Guy Fawkes Day

www.times.com

Today, Guy Fawkes Day — also known as Bonfire Night — is marked across the United Kingdom by celebrations. To foot the bill for the traditional fireworks, children roam the streets in the days leading up to the event, brandishing their effigies — known as "Guys" — and ask passers-by for a "penny for the guy." (The phrase famously serves as the second epigraph to T.S. Eliot's 1927 meditation on despair, "The Hollow Men.") Families gather for food and festivities that might seem incongruous with the event's bloody origins — although perhaps not as incongruous as lighting fireworks and bonfires to celebrate an abortive attempt at arson.

In recent years, Fawkes' legacy has broadened. He provided the inspiration for the tile character in the Wachowski brothers' V for Vendetta, in which a masked crusader embarks on a terrorist campaign against a totalitarian British dystopia.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Fixed broken link.

[edit on 11/6/2008 by maria_stardust]

Heh-Shows the movie V for Vendetta wasn't too far off in this guy being looked at as a cult hero of sorts, for his failed plot to rise up against totalitarian and tyranical rulers.

He must be rolling in his grave to see what is going on in modern times. Cameras on every street corner, intimidation and taxation upon EVERYTHING...

Nice to see the Brits remembering someone who was brave enough to take a stand against it all, for we face the same type of oppression today, make no mistake about it...


www.times.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 6-11-2008 by DimensionalDetective]

Mod Edit: Fixed broken link.

[edit on 11/6/2008 by maria_stardust]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


A noble sentiment perhaps, but guess what the "gunpowder plot" was really about......

Religion.

Again.

Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot

reply to post by budski


That seems to be yet ANOTHER recurring theme nowadays--Religious intolerance / differences creating total chaos and destruction. Go figure.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Remembering someone who was going to kill a bunch of people then sell the country out to the Spanish? Nice guy!

A couple of things: firstly, is the date stamp wrong on the OP? Was this really posted on the 6th?

Secondly, with regard to the actual article, I know Moore is happier with his name removed from association with the film, but I don't like the idea of 'V for Vendetta' being described as being the Wachowski brothers'. To me, that sentence reads as if they created the character and the story.

Also, how well-known is the 5th of November elsewhere? Were many Americans familiar with this before the Hollywood version of V for Vendetta?

what's funny, and not surprising, is that the government's intention of observing Guy Fawkes day is to celebrate that the plot was foiled, not that he took a stand against tyranny. The government made Fawkes out to be a villain and wanted everyone to remember that a stand against the government and the Queen is morally wrong and will be stopped, and it seems like this is how the majority of people ended up viewing the event for many years...

I was in Glasgow, Scotland during Guy Fawkes back in 2002; it is hilarious how dangerous it all seems, 9 and ten year old kids lighting bonfires on every street corner, it was awesome. It was raining, i remember, but everyone was still out in full force.. made me proud to be half scottish.

reply to post by budski

From the Wiki link sited : The plot itself may have been occasioned by the realisation by Protestant authorities and Catholic recusants that the Kingdom of Spain was in far too much debt and fighting too many wars to assist Catholics in Britain. Any possibility of toleration by Great Britain was removed at the Hampton Court conference in 1604 when King James I attacked both extreme Puritans and Catholics. The plotters realised that no outside help would be forthcoming unless they took action themselves

Sounds like a politcal conspiracy to supress the rights of belief to me, which inspired Fawkes and his people to act. Which is and is not religion. Yes, they wished religous freedom, but that is different than 'religion' its self. One way is people expressing and fighting tyranical thoughts. The way you seem to mean it is that 'God' told them to and that Sir/madam is a totally different point.

With the advent of religous freedom people have the right to believe anything they want...including the belief of nothing at all. That should be considered a win for everyone.

What I'd like to see is people standing up for the people who's beliefs (be they religous, scientific or whatever) counter their own. Would an Athiest stand up for my right to believe in God...as much as I would stand up for theirs not to believe in anything?

I think it is when we allow ourselves to be segregated into lables actions such as Fawkes become needed. The idea that it's ok if the goverment persecutes the other guy, because he doesn't believe the way I do, when true tyranny happens.

Hundreds of Christians, Athiests, Agnostics, and everything under the sun watched as Jewish human beings were dragged away in Nazi Germany, and most did nothing...it wasn't them. Divided they fell into tyranny. Only by standing together and speaking in one voice to say that all have the right to live and believe do we supress the opressors. It is when peoples beliefs impede other's rights, and lives we should take action against them.

If we look at Fawkes in that light, you can't help but admire what he tried to do...he and his people wanted freedom...don't we all.

chameleon302

He wanted to overthrow an elected government and kill the king because his minority wanted a different set of values imposed on the rest of the country, and to do this he relied on foreign governments and their agents opposed to the protestant religion in England.

Sounds a lot like the war on terror to me......

edit to add - I haven't seen kids doing "penny for the guy" for years now, and nor have I seen effigies of guy fawkes for many years.
These days it's more of an excuse for a party and some fireworks.

[edit on 6/11/2008 by budski]

That being said Budski, I don't think it was right to try to set up the minority as the ruling factor. No no no! Never right to do that!! Had he been doing it for the freedom, I would support that, but as you explained...GAH!

I'll have to look deeper into this. That's the problem with history...so much to learn! lol!!

My personal thoughts on freedom do stand. However, my thought that he did the right thing is withdrawn...

Originally posted by budski
edit to add - I haven't seen kids doing "penny for the guy" for years now, and nor have I seen effigies of guy fawkes for many years.
These days it's more of an excuse for a party and some fireworks.

[edit on 6/11/2008 by budski]

My better-half and I were talking about this last night. Even bonfires are rare compared to what they once were.

I think there's a few reasons for this though. When I was young, there was material around to build and burn bonfires. People had sheds with small collections of wood, perhaps because people did more proper DIY then? Similarly, a lot of donated wood was old doors and real wooden furniture &c. These days, furniture isn't the same. Also, people had logs and tree clippings. Whereas now, more people seem to have decking, paving and concrete than trees &c.

Regarding 'penny for the guy', I think the idea of kids going door-to-door collecting on dark nights isn't something that's seen as acceptable any more for a few reasons. Kids parking a 'bogey' with a guy sat it in in the street, or outside shops, isn't going to be tolerated the way it once was either.

The food &c that was associated with a bonfire night when I was growing-up, seems to have vanished too.

I think one of the big things that's also affected kid's interest in bonfire night is how popular Halloween has become over the years, or rather the imported 'American' take on it anyway. This seems to have almost completely over-shadowed bonfire night.

dave420

Remembering someone who was going to kill a bunch of people then sell the country out to the Spanish? Nice guy!

It was nothing to do with selling out to Spain,it was about having Britain back under the control of the Holy See.




kidney thief

what's funny, and not surprising, is that the government's intention of observing Guy Fawkes day is to celebrate that the plot was foiled, not that he took a stand against tyranny. The government made Fawkes out to be a villain and wanted everyone to remember that a stand against the government and the Queen is morally wrong and will be stopped, and it seems like this is how the majority of people ended up viewing the event for many years...

Thats how the non-Catholics and upper class viewed it.The working class and Catholics have always viewed it as a celebration for men seen as heroes.




budski

He wanted to overthrow an elected government and kill the king because his minority wanted a different set of values imposed on the rest of the country, and to do this he relied on foreign governments and their agents opposed to the protestant religion in England.

I would hardly call the Catholic population a minority.Britain was a Catholic country for a thousand years or so before Henry the 8th broke away from the Vatican.His daughter Mary was Catholic and prosecuted Protestants.Her sister Elizabeth was Protestant and Catholics were persecuted.James 1st was also Protestant.So in this short period of time the Catholics were still a fairly large majority and Protestant rule had only continued unbroken for only 47yrs.(from Elizabeth taking the throne up to the Gunpowder Plot) And it wasn't as if Catholicism was an unknown or foreign set of values.

I haven't seen kids doing "penny for the guy" for years now, and nor have I seen effigies of guy fawkes for many years.

Neither have i.Kids today probably have no idea who Guy Fawkes was.Me and my fiends used to do it though.We'd go round the neighborhood with our Guy in a wheel barrow.And whatever money we made we gave half to charity and spent the other half on sweets.lol.