Calling all ATS'ers: Time to deny ignorance regarding Obama and the NWO

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


well I'm against the genocide thing

but all about consequences for the perpetration of 911

and other Bush administration crimes ,restoring the constitution would be fabulous

Obama is a constitutional lawyer,so if anyone could and would it would be him

the proof of the pudding is in the eating ,we'll see I'm watching ,not making any sweeping objections ,YET

I can't envision 100% agreement with him on everything ,but reigning in the Neo Con Evangelical hate polices of the last decade and educating people so that we can get past the whole did dinosaurs really exist argument and actually pay attention to issues that matter is good enough for me for now

Originally posted by invisiblewoman

and other Bush administration crimes ,restoring the constitution would be fabulous

Just what part of the constitution does Obama need to fix?

I can't envision 100% agreement with him on everything ,but reigning in the Neo Con Evangelical hate polices

And just what were those policies?

of the last decade and educating people so that we can get past the whole did dinosaurs really exist argument and actually pay attention to issues that matter is good enough for me

Who says dinosaurs never existed? where are you getting all this ?

reply to post by invisiblewoman


Again, you're expecting an awfull lot from a man who voted in favor of the FISA bill, voted in favor of reauthroizing the Patriot Act, voted in approval of and urged citizen acceptance of the $850 BILLION corporate bailout, and who blatently attacks the 2nd Amendment including criticizing the SCOTUS over their affirmation of the 2nd in regards to Washington DC. In fact, you're not just expecting an awful lot, you're expecting a damned miracle.

Take all of GWB's supposed "Constitutional violations" and throw in the additional violation of neutering America's 2nd Amendment and you've got Barak H. Obama. He's a Constitutional lawyer, you say? Oh that's just swell, that only means he'll figure out even more innovative and clandestine ways to subvert our rights and probably be able to cite past precidents supporting him doing so far quicker and with far more brutallity against our freedoms than George W. Bush ever could have dreamed possible.

(And lest you accuse me of making "what if" statements or predicting possible future Obama behavior/policies, let me remind you that I started this post with a list of issues from Obama's record, not of things he 'might' do. Every issue aside from the Iraq war in which the liberals have screamed about Bush over, Obama has been in compliance with GWB on. EVERY ISSUE. The only change America voted for was an "I wish we could change the past" change on the topic of the Iraq war... as in I wish we could change the fact we ever invaded Iraq. That's not a platform of change, it's a platform of regret and wishfull revisionism and it will only lead to a platform of buyer's (voter's) remorse.)

Originally posted by MAINTAL
When he is done with creating new laws to euthanize the elderly and revamp all kinds of new Abortion laws, I think that may serve to help with that but then again, my advice would be to tell Obama,,

Hey,, you're the one they call the Messiah, not me so

the best way to lead is by example

Euthanize the elderly??? Do you really believe the crap you are spouting? Can you hear yourself actually thinking this garbage up, or are you just trying to be hip with the ATS status quo?

He loved his Grandmother more than anything.

Euthanize the elderly.... that cracks me up. Actually, it saddens me and angers me that some people are so amazingly ignorant.

[edit on 11/7/2008 by pjslug]

reply to post by pjslug

People need to think outside of their bubbles and be willing to take great stands and make great moves forward for the benefit of all humanity. No more free government handouts and welfare recipients... even if the people are mentally handicapped, they can still perform community service by cleaning up the trash on the streets or mowing the lawn at a park, stuffing envelopes for government agencies, etc. If we all work together as a union now, we will all be able to work together as a unified world in the near future.

Oh, my god! You sound like every yuppie I ever met!

The worst day most of them have is; when they have leaves in their pool and their Porsche tires are flat!

check out quatrain 91 of the link
sounds alot like the campaining for president of mccain and obama

quatrains

I don't know that 'expecting' much of anything ,it will either be a continuation of Bush ,or not.

If it's a continuation of the current NWO I'll hate it like I always have,if it represented a sea change ,well I hope I get on board with it. Things can't change and stay the same.

If you don't know what the erosion to the constitution are why are you even on ATS


Patriot Act?


Bush Doctrine

posse comitatus


habeas corpus

what's left of the constitution now ?shopping?

I don't know what Obama will do, but BUSH did this^

reply to post by volitionawareness

no conspiracies...? power, by definition, conducts itself in a conspiratorial manner:

Gulf of Tonkin, Federal Reserve, JFK, Watergate, 911, Oklahoma City..

there are some ATSers that need to do some serious homework..

It is ironic how history repeats itself! Hitler promulgated major conspiracy plans and could have won! How many denied what was happening then, and also laughed, or criticized, what they were hearing, and said "Oh, it isn't true!" And how many died as a result?

If Obama and the Democrats, who have the votes now, do NOT revoke the Patriot Act, then we have all the proof we need that Obama is part and parcel of the NWO. Giving up freedoms granted by our constitution in order to be "safe" is exactly what the NWO is all about.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


its funny you mention hitler, my wife and i were just likening some of the obama campaign pics to that of the nuremburg rallies







p.s. i neither like him or dislike him, he does however seem more competent than bush

reply to post by ProfEmeritus



You are correct! star for you!

I agree with many of you on your positions regarding Barack Obama and George W. Bush. Where we diverge is on the amtter of how this all happens. You all say this is a result of people who work behind the scenes, in a clandestine, manner, wield overwhelming power, orchestrate all sorts of events, have a master plan and where everything they say is a blatant lie.

Our leaders may lie, but a study of history and social interaction shows that our lives are dictated by broad, widespread phenomena and our leaders are affected by the same circumstances that we are often affected by, its just that they're different and happen within different contexts.

I think Conspiracies are a way for people to absolve themselves of any blame or culpability in the fate of our country and society.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo


I whole heartedly agree with you, we vote and then go home and forget about participating in or government,when really voting is the beginning and by no means the only obligation we have . We have many histories available to us that give us insights into past leaders lives and careers and ideologies and I have myself pointed out that even the power elite are only people,and none of them are omniscient,or ten feet tall and bullet proof . The biggest danger is mythologizing them to the point that we convince ourselves that they are gods and we cannot change their minds or our own course.
I say yes we can.

This is a time in history where "the people" need to make sure things change. Will Obama do this, no, not without the people, he will do little. So many go and do their little voting and then claim to be a participating American. The changes begin with us. Right in our own homes. Many complain about the economy when it is in fact most of us who helped cause this. Spending more then what we have, fulfilling all our personal wants with out regard to what it will cost us in the future. The people have allowed the government to go haywire while we sit back and enjoy life. Then run forward and throw a fit when all of a sudden all this corrupt crap is occurring. We have become quick to point the finger at someone, anyone to blame. We need to wake up. Many are waking up, finally. Many are still just as oblivious as ever. Now many are looking to Obama to be the savior and if he doesn't, watch out, he will be blamed next. It is a vicious circle that we need to break. Well that is my take on it anyhow.

I believe there are many causes for why we have the elected officials that we have today. I don't think there is a simple answer, of course, but part of the blame DOES have to come back to us, the electorate. Although it is true that the MSM only does a skin-deep coverage of the candidates, people should do their own research as to exactly who the candidates are, what their past record has been, and what specific plans they have proposed, and how they will pay for them. The information is there, and if it isn't then we should demand answers, not platitudes. In addition, we need to demand that during the primaries, ALL candidates are given coverage, and are included in debates and forums.
People also need to understand that the MSM has very different agendas than the average American has, as to who should be elected, and why. Unfortunately, I saw this election as more of an "American Idol" vote than a vote for the person who would handle the fate of the US, and perhaps the world for the next 4 years. Television, the Internet, and the lightening speed of electronics have given people the habit of getting instant and simple answers to their questions and needs. Unfortunately, the nation's problems and the worlds' problems don't lend themselves to instant solutions.
Having said all of that, I still believe that the two major "party" candidates were predetermined, in large part, by other than the average citizen. Call that what you like, NWO, BIlderbergers, Corporate Shadow government, it doesn't matter. They are the people that will gain from all the money that the winning candidates will channel to them and their corporations in the form of loans, contracts, bailouts, you-name-it. We have the BEST democracy MONEY CAN BUY.
Just wait until the auto makers come back for more money. Would YOU invest your life savings in a company that continues to build large SUVS after seeing that no one wants to buy them? Do you think the government would bail YOU out if you started a mom and pop business and it failed? Well, unfortunately, the government IS investing in such companies WITH YOUR LIFE SAVINGS AND YOUR CHILDREN'S'.

Having said all of that, I still believe that the two major "party" candidates were predetermined, in large part, by other than the average citizen. Call that what you like, NWO, BIlderbergers, Corporate Shadow government, it doesn't matter. They are the people that will gain from all the money that the winning candidates will channel to them and their corporations in the form of loans, contracts, bailouts, you-name-it. We have the BEST democracy MONEY CAN BUY.

This is PRECISELY what I am talking about. You have NO evidence whatsoever that any of our candidates were predetermined. I can make an argument for any of the candidates being the predetermined one, if such an absurd theory were even true.

Again, read up on C. Wright Mills' power elite thesis and you will see there is no mystery. Its very cut and dry who controls American and how and why they do. Nothing conspiratorial or diabolical about it. Any emergence of the NWO is due to broad social changes as well as the dynamics involved in any complex social arrangement, not some evil master plan driven by an ideology for world collectivist domination.

Conspiracy theories are just ways for the average person to pretend like they have no role in society's failures. No wonder they're the refuge of kooks.

reply to post by pjslug

Where do I begin? You are clearly one of Obama's brainwashed followers, praising your "messiah" who will now magically make everything better. In regards to JFK... he asked people to help their country more or less, while Obama wants complusory servitude. Y'know, there's a word for that, it's called SLAVERY! This is a guy no one had ever heard of prior to his big speech at the DNC convention in 04, who won a US Senate seat after doing basically nothing in Illinois, and spent most of his time in the Senate setting up this run for President. Most people involved in politics or TV will say that they have never seen anything like this campaign. The MSM was doing everything but filling out your ballots for him. Many reporters or pundits who criticized him were punished in one way or another. I could go on and on about Ayers, Wright, the birth certificate thing, etc. but I'll stick to the NWO angle. Besides the slavery and his "citizen army", look at how the whole welfare state has failed. Obama will just keep it going. And McCain is no better. He was all about amnesty for the illegals invading our country. No matter who won, they both serve the same masters. Just look at their contributors - mostly the same people. Look at the people Obama is gathering for his cabinet - they've been around in previous administrations. What happened to "Change"? That was just a nice vague slogan. And as far as the whole Antichrist charge goes, I personally don't believe it, being an atheist. But apparently if you read some of the biblical prophecies, it fits (the way prophecies can fit almost anyone you want). He is about the right age, of Muslim descent (his father), 42 months is pasically 2 terms, and he has come to power in dark times and is seen by many as a saviour.

Bottom line? You want to believe 'ol Barry Soetoro is the chosen one to lead us to the Promised Land? Fine. Have fun in Fantasyland!

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

This is PRECISELY what I am talking about. You have NO evidence whatsoever that any of our candidates were predetermined.

If you really believe that, then I ask you how a virtual unknown four years ago, ascended to the highest post in the land, with virtually no accomplishments whatsoever. I have PLENTY of evidence, however. The first piece of overwhelming evidence is the Chicago Democratic machine that guided Obama in every step of his journey. That is the SAME machine that rigged the ELECTION of JFK, by having tens of thousands of DEAD people vote for JFK. The second piece of evidence is the $650,000,000.00 raised for Obama. Do you REALLY think that the money came from lower income or middle income people? If that were so, why does his campaign list thousands of donors as "undetermined" or "anonymous? Do the math. Do you really think that each person gave $2,300 or less to his Presidential campaign? I have a bridge to sell you, if you do. I could go on, but why bother. If you don't believe with all of the evidence in plain view, I'm certainly not going to convince you.

You're right. There is no conspiracy. Everyone is above board, and has nothing but YOUR interests at heart. Corporations get all those fat government contracts because they earned it, and are the lowest bidder, and they never overrun their contracts. There is no corruption. People really didn't have half of their 401K's wiped out by crooked financial people, and there really is a tooth fairy. There was no Enron, Arthur Andersen, and there are no corporate raiders. Everything is just fine.

I don't even know why I try. Its clear most of you will never take off your tin-foil hats.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

If you really believe that, then I ask you how a virtual unknown four years ago, ascended to the highest post in the land, with virtually no accomplishments whatsoever. I have PLENTY of evidence, however. The first piece of overwhelming evidence is the Chicago Democratic machine that guided Obama in every step of his journey. That is the SAME machine that rigged the ELECTION of JFK, by having tens of thousands of DEAD people vote for JFK. The second piece of evidence is the $650,000,000.00 raised for Obama. Do you REALLY think that the money came from lower income or middle income people? If that were so, why does his campaign list thousands of donors as "undetermined" or "anonymous? Do the math. Do you really think that each person gave $2,300 or less to his Presidential campaign? I have a bridge to sell you, if you do. I could go on, but why bother. If you don't believe with all of the evidence in plain view, I'm certainly not going to convince you.

You're right. There is no conspiracy. Everyone is above board, and has nothing but YOUR interests at heart. Corporations get all those fat government contracts because they earned it, and are the lowest bidder, and they never overrun their contracts.There is no corruption. People really didn't have half of their 401K's wiped out by crooked financial people, and there really is a tooth fairy. There was no Enron, Arthur Andersen, and there are no corporate raiders. Everything is just fine.

The problem I see with your argument above is that you seem to believe that any and all kinds of corruption is truly part of some master diabolical plan. Everything you mentioned above is indicative of the power elite and what it is capable of. Where you cross the line is when you fail to realize that corruption, overrunning contracts, etc., occur because that is the SOCIAL ROLE played by members of the power elite. When I say there are no conspiracies, I am not saying that these people do exactly as their job description lays out or that they have our best interests at heart, rather I say the exact opposite. I am saying that corruption DOES occur because the role and position they hold and play in society allows them to do what they do, right or wrong. A politician may end up engaging in money-laundering and election-rigging, not because of aspirations of world domination and a desire to screw over the American people, but he engages in such activity because he has a) determined that doing so will bolster and hold his position in society and b) his position in society allows him to engage in such activity and possibly get away with it. This is explains why an average Joe cannot rig elections. He is not in a position of power to even get close to an electoral process, and his place on the power structure makes him subservient to the law and those above him.

If What you say about Barack Obama is true, then this is simply natural social phenomena and human interaction at work. Such things were done out of a desire for each person to hold their position in society, benefit themselves, etc., not due to some secret desire and most certainly not as part of some diabolical master plan to establish an NWO.

Here's my personal opinion:
If our political candidates were really predetermined, then wouldn't Hillary have won???
She's the one who is married to Bill Clinton and has all these connections.
I don't buy that Obama was a predetermined candidate because it would have made much more sense for the NWO to put Hillary in.

The 'slavery' idea that Obama has actually sounds like a good idea to me.
All it's asking for is community service for just out of high school aged kids.
Everyone here is twisting that into being some sort of slavery thing that Obama has got going but I personally am kind of excited to be doing something for my country, rather than have to sit around complaining about Bush all the time.

Maybe Obama will turn out to be a complete puppet. Who knows.
But he was elected already so now there's nothing we can do but give him a chance.
I personally think that from what I know of his policies and positions on the issues (and I know a lot, since I volunteered for his campaign) his plan sounds like a good plan.
He will cut taxes for the middle and working class and raise them for huge corporate heads and people who can afford to give money to their government (that doesn't sound NWO to me, isn't the NWO all about the big corporations?)
He is going to give tax relief to businesses who keep their employees here.
He is going to make sure everyone in America has a chance to get health care like in CANADA or FRANCE (and it works well there, don't buy into the lie that health care is # in countries with universal health care)
I think that we are so desperate to say that it wasn't our fault that Bush got into power and ruined our country, but the sad truth is this:
WE ELECTED HIM
And by us electing Barack Obama, we have proven that we can learn from our mistakes.