Why is everyone making me feel guilty for NOT liking our new president (elect), page 6
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reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 11:52 AM by seagull
reply to post by sos37



The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Oh, good. Let's not give the man even a halfway decent chance to do the job...great.

The office has a way of changing a man, both for good and for ill. We haven't yet seen how President Obama will change. The only foregone conclusion we, you, can make correctly is that he will change. For good? For ill? We just don't know yet.

Will he make mistakes? Name me a President who hasn't? Can't be done. They all do. You know why? It ain't because they're demonic antichrists, or even (gasp) Republicans/Democrats; it's because they're human, which means fallible. The mark of the man will be how he goes about fixing these mistakes.

Give the man a chance to do the evil you seem to be anticipating before you start squalling. At least wait 'til he's sworn in. You, and others, want to stomp your feet, hold your breathe 'til you turn blue, have at it. It won't make a bit of difference. The man won fairly, and squarely. You want someone better? Well in 2012, work a little harder, and get yourself a better candidate.

We survived Carter. We survived Reagan. We survived Bush. We survived Clinton. We survived Bush (whoa, deja vu). We'll survive Mr. Obama as well. Give the country a bit more credit, please.





As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:02 PM by sos37
Originally posted by seagull
reply to
post by sos37



Oh, good. Let's not give the man even a halfway decent chance to do the job...great.

The office has a way of changing a man, both for good and for ill. We haven't yet seen how President Obama will change. The only foregone conclusion we, you, can make correctly is that he will change. For good? For ill? We just don't know yet.

Will he make mistakes? Name me a President who hasn't? Can't be done. They all do. You know why? It ain't because they're demonic antichrists, or even (gasp) Republicans/Democrats; it's because they're human, which means fallible. The mark of the man will be how he goes about fixing these mistakes.

Give the man a chance to do the evil you seem to be anticipating before you start squalling. At least wait 'til he's sworn in. You, and others, want to stomp your feet, hold your breathe 'til you turn blue, have at it. It won't make a bit of difference. The man won fairly, and squarely. You want someone better? Well in 2012, work a little harder, and get yourself a better candidate.

We survived Carter. We survived Reagan. We survived Bush. We survived Clinton. We survived Bush (whoa, deja vu). We'll survive Mr. Obama as well. Give the country a bit more credit, please.



Fairly and squarely??? That's the MOST LAUGHABLE statement made today yet.

There is STILL the issue of his not producing a vaulted copy of his birth certificate.

There is STILL the issue of the media endorsing and pandering for him simply because they wanted the headlines of a "historic presidency". They didn't care one bit for his policies. They saw "black man running" and they ran with it.

Don't believe me??? Even MSN Slate believes it, and they were one of the biggest shills for him: www.slate.com...

There is STILL the issue of Obama's past dealings with shady characters that the media wanted SO desperately for you to forget about.

Just because the man was elected doesn't mean these things go away. You may be willing to give him a pass, but people who truly love this country more than they love "the messiah" are not.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by sos37]

[edit on 6-11-2008 by sos37]


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:07 PM by HunkaHunka
Originally posted by sos37
Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I just wish people could do so with the same respect they showed their previous candidate and I wish they would at least be open to giving Obama a chance.


Respect??? For which candidate? I KNOW you aren't talking about Bush ... for the last 8 years it's been nothing but a hate fest toward Bush

*snip*

The differences between you and I: I love this country. I love the Constitution and the freedoms it guarantees and free markets. I believe in limited role of government. I want people in this country to be happy and prosper.

Apparently you and the rest of your ilk do not.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by sos37]


When Bush was elected in 2000, even though it was close, the vast majority of us actually did support him. He did a great job in the first year after 9/11 and I thought it reflected greatly on him.

Now, what I did have issue with, was the Iraq War. Afghansitan I supported, but not Iraq. I also had issues with the fact that as a republican, he did more to increase the size of and power of governement than I would have expected from a conservative. And then what really ticked me off about his administration, not so much him, was how they tried to marginalize those of us against the war as being unAmerican.

I see how you like to try to point out the differences between you and others on this board. And that's really what this election was about. It's about learning how to point out the similarities between us and *ignore* the differences. It's because of the ability to ignore our differences that we even have a country to begin with.

As a patriot I'm sure you can appreciate that.


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:08 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by sos37



I was talking about the other candidates in the running with Obama, like McCain. I gave Bush a chance, twice. He has not earned an ounce of respect, just my opinion.

The differences between you and I: I love this country. I love the Constitution and the freedoms


You think all of the millions upon millions who voted for Obama do not fit in this category? I’m no longer going to address you for making broad, idiot statements like that. Your bitterness is clouding your reason and judgment.


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:08 PM by seagull
reply to post by sos37



The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

...and there are the unanswered questions regarding Mr. McCains behaviour during his time as a prisnor of war, too. As laughable as the so called "associations" of Mr. Obama.

Senator McCain had an opportunity to use all of those against Mr. Obama during the election. For some reason he chose not to. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he had better information than you do? Hmmm...

The press is unfair? I'll give you that one...we agree. However, he knew that was going to happen, he had to; he's not a stupid man. He could have made allowances for it.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:22 PM by sos37
Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to
post by sos37



You think all of the millions upon millions who voted for Obama do not fit in this category? I’m no longer going to address you for making broad, idiot statements like that. Your bitterness is clouding your reason and judgment.


YES! And I can prove it!

1. Why else would you all support a party that believes in something like reinstating the Fairness Doctrine?

thehill.com...

2. What about the SCOTUS recent attempt to define the Second Amendment as being the right of the militia only? That vote was along party lines with the Democratic justices leaning toward redefinement and the deciding vote was cast by Ted Kennedy! Several of these justices will be retiring during this term. Do you really expect Obama not to appoint liberal justices who have the same agendas in mind???

3. What about Obama wanting to limit the sale of weapons? How is that not a violation of the second amendment?



[edit on 6-11-2008 by sos37]


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:23 PM by Open_Minded Skeptic
Originally posted by Epinephrine

I think there is valid concern to question the legitimacy of his citizenship, having read some information about this, if only because he should have lost his U.S. citizenship when he moved to and became a citizen of Indonesia. There was also a lawsuit which claimed that Obama's birth certificate was identified as a forgery by independent document forensic experts.


OK, I really don't want to get into this again.

1) He moved to Indonesia as a child, i.e. because his mom moved there. He did not ever himself renounce his US citizenship at a US embassy, which is what is required for him to have lost it.

2) He is a sitting US Senator, and now the President-elect. Given the citizenship requirements, do you really think it likely that there is no gov't agency whose job it is to verify the eligibility of candidates, for Senator or President? And do you really think these people would have let it go if there were any doubt? There is no legitimate claim regarding his citizenship. Had there been, he would not be in the position he now is.


Obama's "spread the wealth" comment and his connections with the Democratic Socialists of America give some credence to claims that Obama is a socialist. Thus it is not racist to accuse Obama of being a socialist.


I heard the comment in full context in his answer to the infamous Joe. In the context of his remarks, there is no doubt that he was NOT speaking in a Socialist framework. None. He is no more a socialist than McCain. Absolutely no evidence to support it. None. Nada.


I think that in suggesting that non-racial criticisms could be euphemisms for racism shows a willingness on your part and is a nod of approval of a sorts to, as mentioned, shut down any criticism or argument against Obama through accusations of racism. In this case, it's not overt racism but "secret" racism that must be shut down.


It is exactly these kinds of criticisms that I am suggesting may be euphamisms for race. Note I say may be. These may simply be unfounded claims that people buy into for non-racial reasons, I absolutely agree to that.

However, there is no credible evidence to support these claims. None. Then why do these claims persist? It may be just the persistence of juicy rumors. Or it may be a safe way for people to oppose him without coming right out and saying it is due to race.

I really don't know. But I do know that these particular claims have been debunked multiple times, and are unfounded.


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:30 PM by seagull
reply to post by Angry Danish



The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Nor should you give your trust to a ruler blindly. But neither should you blindly distrust...

One is as bad in it's own way, as the other.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:41 PM by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by sos37





What about the SCOTUS recent attempt to define the Second Amendment as being the right of the militia only? That vote was along party lines with the Democratic justices leaning toward redefinement and the deciding vote was cast by Ted Kennedy!

Your hatred and ignorance are beyond belief. Ted Kennedy is not, and never was, a member of the Supreme Court.
In addition, you say you believe in the Constitution, but you will not accept Obama as your President. I see nowhere in the Constitution where it states the a President is not YOUR President because you don't like him.
Cool off, and come back in a few years, when you have matured enough to discuss issues like an adult.



reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:41 PM by MetatronCubensis
reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic



we've all been over this before but lets quickly review again.
He became an Indonesian citizen under the alias of Barry Soetoro and Indonesia did Not allow dual citizenship back then. His religion was Islam, not that it matters much. He then lied to the Supreme Court of Illinois about not having this alias.
smithfiles.com...
couple this with him not producing the vault copy of his birth certificate and the company he keeps, comments his wife has made, comments his own grandmother has made, etc etc etc. Talk about a shady dude. I was going to vote for Barry Soetoro but I didn't see his name on the ballot?


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:46 PM by Tgautier13
reply to post by sos37



Well, that's a ridiculous and ignorant post. Are you implying Obama supporters hate America?

I'm sorry, but I just can't help but laugh at the current state of affairs. On one hand you have those bowing at the feet of our future President, praising him as our saviour, on the other you have sad and dejected people pretty much condemning the future of the world to mass slavery and armageddon because of one man.

Then you have those in the center, like myself and a few others I have seen around this website, waiting to see what he actually does in office before constructing altars to this man or stocking up on guns like a sociopath.

How about we all just take step back, take a deep breath in, and just remain in the moment for a while. No use fearing ideas, people, all you get is tired.


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:51 PM by sos37
Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to
post by sos37





What about the SCOTUS recent attempt to define the Second Amendment as being the right of the militia only? That vote was along party lines with the Democratic justices leaning toward redefinement and the deciding vote was cast by Ted Kennedy!

Your hatred and ignorance are beyond belief. Ted Kennedy is not, and never was, a member of the Supreme Court.
In addition, you say you believe in the Constitution, but you will not accept Obama as your President. I see nowhere in the Constitution where it states the a President is not YOUR President because you don't like him.
Cool off, and come back in a few years, when you have matured enough to discuss issues like an adult.


Oh my gosh, so I got the guy's first name wrong. Anthony Kennedy, there, you happy? There's a Ted Kennedy prominent in politics too, you know.

As for maturity - where does the Constitution say to blindly follow a leader that you suspect will ruin the country? How is that being mature? Is it not more mature to decide not to stand with the masses of lemmings who follow each other off the cliff? Or would you have people blindly yield their allegiance to a man who ran a race under questionable circumstances and has yet to answer all of the questions asked of him?

You sound like you want the voice of all those who dissent to be silent. That sounds like tyranny, sir. And I would question your motives and maturity for even suggesting such.


reply posted on 6-11-2008 @ 12:56 PM by sos37
Originally posted by Tgautier13
reply to
post by sos37



Well, that's a ridiculous and ignorant post. Are you implying Obama supporters hate America?


You tell me. Why did you vote for the man?

Because it was cool to do so?
Because he was black?
Because you feared the peer ridicule if you voted for another party? Because you wanted to be part of ushering in the "most historical election in U.S. history"?
Because you were tired of the current adminitration?
Because you are hopping mad of where this country is because of 8 years of Bush and it's time to give someone else a chance?
Because the Democrats couldn't possibly do any worse after the past eight years?

If you said "Yes" to any of the above, then I would have to say your vote for Obama did not have the best interests of America in mind.
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