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The Abomination of Desolation

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posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib_2
 


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.


I think that these verses could be saying they will be side by side when Jerusalem is divided ...The Dome (being for the gentiles) and the a temple for the Jews next to it ...it is talking about a temple (that Ezek measures) in the above verses ..
I know these verses could be talking about something else entirely .
I am still just mulling things over ...nothing in my mind yet has been set in stone as what is or isnt going to happen ...




posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by doctorex
 


{This takes place 1000 years after the return of Christ, not before.}
I was not talking about the Armegeddon war ..
That is the FINAL BATTLE Of all time *Which happens at the end of the thousand years ..

The war of Ezek 39
That I believe starts the trib .

Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
www.blueletterbible.org...

Notice it says he leaves a sixth part of them (this cant be the Armegeddon war because Gog is completely DESTROYED then ..no sixth part left ..(He is saving the sixth part of them for the very last Armegeddon war after the thousand years)

I used to think this war was Armgeddon too until I started seeing some things that made me see differently ..


You have got it back to front. The Armageddon war happens before the return of Christ, it is part of the plagues of the seventh trumpet, which is part which is the end of the tribulation....

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

The Ezekiel war (gog/magog) happens 1000 years later.....

EZEKIEL 39
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it , saith the Lord GOD.
6 And [I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

REVELATION 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

There is no single antichrist, and there is no "7 year tribulation" mentioned anywhere in scripture.





[edit on 14/11/08 by doctorex]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
So Doc what will you do when you really do see an actual temple built ?
The Jews have been saying for years and years and years that there will be another Temple built ..Their torah predicts it (according to them) even ....


I don't have to worry about anything that is not predicted to happen in biblical prophecy. The jews think another temple will be built because they are as blind as everyone else who fails to see that the temple is now spiritual.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Regarding the two main prophecies

1) Abomination of Desolation

2) End Time Apostasy

The mistake is in stating both are one and the same thing. They are two different end time events, not one event. The Desolation and Apostasy are not one and the same. Combining them leads to a morass of prophetic understandings.

Yes, the Temple = Church is some NT passages.
Thessalonians and Revelation do talk about an end time apostasy within the Church. This has happened, this is a part of history now.

Combining this passage with the Desolation prophecy which is a separate event that will happen physically leads to a wretched understanding of the TIMING of end time events. This will lead any who follow this time line into Great Tribulation, because they will have all the timing wrong.


A spiritual building, the temple of God, the church, would be desolated, and only one thing can do that, which is apostasy. How can you say they are not the same event?



Apostasy of Church - fulfilled in the 90's. This is history. The Laodicean Age is here.


The wording used in the prophecy of the abomination allows it to refer to both the standing and the taking taking away, which I have pointed out. The word Daniel uses on both mentions of the abomination of desolation means both setting up and taking away.....

5414 nathan naw-than' a primitive root; to give, used with greatest latitude of application (put, make, etc.):--add, apply, appoint, ascribe, assign, X avenge, X be ((healed)), bestow, bring (forth, hither), cast, cause, charge, come, commit, consider, count, + cry, deliver (up), direct, distribute, do, X doubtless, X without fail, fasten, frame, X get, give (forth, over, up), grant, hang (up), X have, X indeed, lay (unto charge, up), (give) leave, lend, let (out), + lie, lift up, make, + O that, occupy, offer, ordain, pay, perform, place, pour, print, X pull , put (forth), recompense, render, requite, restore, send (out), set (forth), shew, shoot forth (up), + sing, + slander, strike, (sub-)mit, suffer, X surely, X take, thrust, trade, turn, utter, + weep, + willingly, + withdraw, + would (to) God, yield.

Yes the standing, giving, of the abomination is history, but the healing, withdraw, let out, give leave, restore, turn, recompense, laying up of its effects wasn't to happen until the 1290 day mark, which I guess now is history also :-)


Abomination of Desolation - this is future, the daily sacrifice will be restarted, and this is the pre-cursor for the Desolation event, which involves armies coming in, surrounding Jerusalem, desolating Jerusalem, halting sacrifice and desolating / desecrating alter.


Both the temple and the sacrifices would be spiritual, just as Peter said....

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The physical sacrifices don't need to be restarted, and a new temple doesn't need to be built, if you realise it is not a physical prophecy, just as scripture says over and over again, if you simply open your eyes.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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This is an intense topic, but I just wanted to ask what you guys thought of this angle:

According to some descriptions I read, the original "Burnt Offerings" may have included a human sacrifice, an "unblemished male". Is is possible the abomination is some taint in the bloodline or genes? I'm always looking for new interpretations of ancient myth/history.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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First of all, EVERYONE, the Abomination of Desolation will not happen just out of the blue. The Abomination of Desolation will happen after a couple of events.

The first event left to happen, even before the antichrist comes into power, is that nearly every non-christian as a whole will come against the Christians and mockingly ask, "Where is your Jesus Christ now? He was supposed to come deliver you...blah, blah, blah!".

The second event that is supposed to happen, and I hope it does not happen before the tribulation, is the rapture of every Christian. I have personally seen scriptures telling us that the rapture could happen at several different times: i.e.- just before the antichrist is revealed, or just before the Abomination of Desolation after the beast is revealed, or after the times of the tribulation, which would be after the antichrist is thrown alive into the lake of fire.

I actually hope I am not raptured until after the antichrist is thrown alive into the lake of fire. I would be more than happy to help Christians during the tribulation. I find that would be an awesome gift!

The antichrist will first be revealed. Then he will come into power. Then he will demand worship, and he will demand servitude to him. Then the antichrist will behead many people who resist him. Then the antichrist will come to Jerusalem to sit in the Sacred Place and claim that he is God Almighty. THAT IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION: i.e.- The beast forcing his way into the Jewish Sacred Place or the Holiest of Holies.

The Abomination of Desolation is not the setting up of a statue. It is satan himself indwelling the antichrist, and forcing his way into the Jewish Sacred Place and claiming that he is the God of creation! It is the beast and the devil setting themselves up in the Sacred Place and claiming they are God Almighty!

The Abomination of Desolation and the beheading of the Saints are the two actions that bring the plagues upon all the antichristians. These plagues will last for 3.5 years, until the beast is cast alive into the lake of fire! The plagues the Egyptians received were only pretenses to the plagues the entire world will receive after the beast forces his way into the Holiest of Holies, and after he beheads the Saints, who are ALL Christians!

The Abomination of Desolation and the beheading of the Saints are defining points to the worldwide plagues God will send on the whole earth! Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who sides with the beast/antichrist will suffer horribly for killing the Saints, and for agreeing that the beast is God Almighty!

This will be the defining hour for both the Christians and the Jews. Will you accept the beast as God and kill the Saints, or are you going to reject the beast and help the Christians and the Jews? It will be a burning CHOICE every human of that time must make for themselves! Accepting the beast is called blaspheme against the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus!

If you will believe and trust completely in Jesus Christ TODAY, or at least in the near future, you will not be tempted to trust in the beast when the 7 years tribulation comes to pass.

The first 3.5 years of the tribulation will be that of unparalleled peace, since the world began, but it will also be the worst time for global deception! Nearly EVERYONE will believe the beast is THE MAN OF THE HOUR! Nearly EVERYONE will praise the beast when he sits in the Holiest of Holies! Nearly EVERYONE will want to behead ANYONE who does not side with the beast! Nearly EVERYONE will want to kill the Saints!

You may mock now, but you have been warned! When those days come to pass you will be brought back into remembrance of these things I have told you! WHO WILL YOU TRUST? A man who offers peace, which will only last 3.5 years, or a man who offers to save you from trusting the beast, from yourself, and from eternal death! IT IS YOUR CHOICE, AND IF I WERE YOU I WOULD MAKE THAT DECISION NOW, BEFORE ANY OF THESE THINGS COME TO PASS!!!



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by SaintlyMic
 


Do you have any scriptures to back up this view about the antichrist and rapture, temple etc?

Also, the English translations of the book of revelation that mention the saints are beheaded, this is a mistranslation. There is an actual Greek word for "beheaded" (apokephalizō), which is used in such verses as those referring to the beheading of John the baptist (Matthew 14:10, Mark 6:16, Mark 6:27, Luke 9
. It is a different word used in the verse in revelation 20:4. The word used there is pelekzio, which is a derivative of plesso, another form of plasso

www.blueletterbible.org...

plasso means to mould, to fassion, as in potters clay. plesso means to smite with calamity. Scripture mentions that God fashions and molds our spirit through trials, and through this he cuts off from the world, we conform to God instead of the world. This what Rev 20:4 is talking about, or the word that actually means beheaded would have been used. Sure through these trials some will die, but it does not mean that all Christians will be beheaded, afterall Paul himself says that some at the return of Christ that take part in the first resurrection to reign with Christ will still be alive at this point, and be changed while still in their mortal bodies....

1CORINTHIANS 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It is the same thing Christ is talking about, when speaking of the end times, that some Christians standing there will not taste of death...

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here (talking of the endtime), which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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pelekizō
pel-ek-id'-zo
From a derivative of G4141 (meaning an axe); to chop off (the head), that is, truncate: - behead.

Why are you inserting words into the verse that simply are not there?

The greek word is indeed pelekizō it is derived from G4141. Transliterated it means "hatcheted" to death. Or in modern english "beheaded".

Christians will be executed, the mode of execution, if we accept the bible at face value, is from beheading.



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib
 


That verse is the only time in scripture that word is used, and strongs twists the meaning into being beheaded, but there is an actual word for beheaded in greek, and that word is not used. You want to talk about inserting words that are not there, this is a prime example of it.

Notice the word it is derived from does not mean axe, as it states....

4141. plesso place'-so apparently another form of 4111 (through the idea of flattening out); to pound, i.e. (figuratively) to inflict with (calamity):--smite. Compare 5180.

Now notice what this word is another form of....

4111. plasso plas'-so a primary verb; to mould, i.e. shape or fabricate:--form.

This verse is not primarily about beheading, though I will not be surprised if some of that does take place.

[edit on 15/11/08 by doctorex]



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by SaintlyMic

The antichrist will first be revealed. Then he will come into power. Then he will demand worship, and he will demand servitude to him. Then the antichrist will behead many people who resist him. Then the antichrist will come to Jerusalem to sit in the Sacred Place and claim that he is God Almighty. THAT IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION: i.e.- The beast forcing his way into the Jewish Sacred Place or the Holiest of Holies.



While it is true that the Beast / Anti-Christ (both the Beast and False Prophet are Anti-Christs) will set up camp in Jerusalem, and claim to be God.

Dan. 11:44
44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at [a] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.


And while it is true this is both blasphemous and an abomination.

In Mark, the Abomination is referenced as an "it".

Mark 13:14
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

(Some translations use "he" but the greek is gender neutral)

So it is an "it"



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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{While it is true that the Beast / Anti-Christ (both the Beast and False Prophet are Anti-Christs) will set up camp in Jerusalem, and claim to be God.
Dan. 11:44
44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at [a] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.
And while it is true this is both blasphemous and an abomination.
In Mark, the Abomination is referenced as an "it".
Mark 13:14
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(Some translations use "he" but the greek is gender neutral)
So it is an "it"




Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.


Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many [countries] shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, [even] Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians [shall be] at his steps.

Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Could the IT be the third temple ? (tabernacles of his palace)



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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Yes, the "it" could be a Third Temple, but the bible is not 100% clear on this point. Some translations use "tent" instead of tabernacle. (the original tabernacle was basically a tent structure).



It could be a full blown tabernacle, or a partially built tabernacle, or a partial or full Temple structure.

The minimal requirements are a room where "continuals" are conducted....which are the daily sacrifices of animals upon some consecrated altar.

The "Holy Place" (where the desolation takes place) can be any number of these...

There is interesting history behind an earlier fulfillment of the "abomination of desolation" that occurred in history, before the Olivet prophecy...I'll post it later today.



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain


Thayers says it is a movable tent or building or a house or habitation ..etc

..hmm remember that prefab one they already have ready to put up in a moments notice

The Sanhedrin calls upon the Jewish people to contribute towards the acquisition of materials for the purpose of rebuilding the Holy Temple; the gathering and preparation of prefabricated, disassembled portions of this building to be stored and ready for rapid assembly, in the manner of King David.
www.templeinstitute.org...



I happen to agree with this man
WHICH TEMPLE – MAN’S OR JERUSALEM’S OR BOTH?

It is our realization that the final half of Daniel’s 70th Week begins at the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION and its apparent, and perhaps murky identification with Feast of Tabernacles (or Feast of Booths or Nations or Feast of Ingathering; known as SUKKOT) at the literal Third Temple in Jerusalem, midway through the 70th Week of Daniel’s prophecy in which an abominable image in that rededicated Temple is erected (akin to the Romans setting up a statue of Jupiter or of the Greeks, Zeus, in the Temple in Jerusalem—please clearly note the only two notable times of such desecration in history past were done by the Greeks (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) and then by the Romans (Pompey—i.e., GRECO-ROMAN).


Let it be understood, at this juncture—from this vantage—there are TWO DIMENSIONS involved in the cosmic struggle between the Prince of Peace and the Prince of the Covenant: The HEAVENLY and the EARTHLY. As Israel answers to the earth before Gentile World Powers—the desecration of the Third Temple is in view. As the Church answers to the heavens before Principalities and Powers in High Places—the desecration of the human spirit and the “spiritual” incarnation of Satan into the body of Antichrist is in view. BOTH are the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION; BOTH attest to the conflict in the heavens and the earth!


Therefore, subsequent desecration of that temple and termination of the sacerdotal rites has an additional—a far more profound meaning embedded within the phrase: ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, as alluded to by Paul the Apostle found in II Thessalonians 2:3-4, other than simply the aforementioned desecration akin to that of the Greeks and Romans—i.e., the erecting of an Image (even the “Image of the Beast”) in the literal Third Temple (or the “Tribulation Temple”) is one thing, for sure, but we affirm that Paul and Jesus and Daniel had something far more sinister in view . . .

“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple (Greek: naos-see below) of God, showing himself that he is God.”

Here, the Greek word for temple is NOT the literal temple in Jerusalem (John 2:14-15 – Strong’s 2411 – hieron) but the same word that Jesus uses when referring to the temple of His body (John 2:19-21 – Strong’s 3485 – naos) . . .

“And He found in the temple (hieron) those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple (hieron), with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables . . . Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Destroy this temple (naos), and in three days I will raise it up . . . But He was speaking of the temple (naos) of His body.”
However, of keen interest is Strong’s definition or fuller meaning of naos and of hieron when expanding upon both:

“hieron – neut. of 2413: a sacred place, i.e., the entire precincts (whereas 3485 (naos) denotes the CENTRAL SANCTUARY ITSELF) of the Temple (at Jerusalem or elsewhere)—temple (my emphasis) (cf. Luke 23:45).”

Throughout the Revelation the word for temple is naos!

Paul clearly alludes to the temple as both the singular human body, as well as the “corporate body” –

“Do you not know that you are the temple (singular temple – naos) of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple (naos) of God, God will destroy him. For the temple (naos) of God is holy, which temple (naos) you are” (I Cor. 3:17-18).

“Or do you not know that your body is the temple (singular temple - naos) of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own” (I Cor. 6:19).

“And what agreement has the temple (corporate temple – naos) of God with idols? For you are the temple (corporate temple– naos) of the living God. As God has said: I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people” (II Cor. 6:16). The first and second temples (Davidic-Solomonic and Post-Neo-Babylonian Captivity-Herodian) were tripartite: the outer court, the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies—the innermost sanctuary. It is this veil which separated the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies (or the Holiest of All) that was torn:
. . . the veil of the temple was torn in two” (Luke 23:45b).

Even so, the “Tent of Meeting” or the “tabernacle” of ancient Israel was tripartite.
MORE AT LINK
www.the-tribulation-network.com...



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Did some more digging ...check this out .

Building the Third Temple Today

The hope to return to Jerusalem and to rebuild the Temple has been a dream of the Jewish people for the last two thousand years. Millions of evangelic Christians pray for it, as well as "Free Masons" and other people. In the Jewish tradition the Temple represents the heart of God, Israel, and the heart in each of us where the Divine dwells.
Ironically Israelis recoil from the idea of rebuilding the Temple. Some because it is not relevant to their lives, some out of fear that it will lead to confrontation with the Islamic world, and some from a religious belief that the Third Temple will not be built by human hands but will descend ready-made from heaven.

As Israel celebrates its 50th year of rebirth, the Jewish world remains split and unwell. How can it be healed when its heart remains broken and ignored?

Renewing the Vision
To renew the dream of building the Third Temple it is necessary to raise a new vision of the Temple that will be relevant to the needs of the modern world. This vision would also address the real dangers associated with its construction. We propose an architectural-cybernetic model for the future Temple, one that removes most of the objections for building it. The Third Temple can be an important and necessary vessel for human redemption/reconstruction on a worldwide scale. Following are proposals for a physical Third Temple and a "virtual reality version" of this Temple that can be developed and implemented immediately.

Future Zionism - the pilgrimage to the Temple and to the Heavenly Jerusalem
Both Isaiah (2:3) and Mikhah (4:3) referred to a future "Zionist" vision when they prophesied "for out of Zion will issue a Torah (teaching) and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem". The prophets saw the new Temple as the fulfillment of Zion and the Heavenly Jerusalem, and envisioned that the new Torah will be revealed to the pilgrims who participate in the workings of the future Temple.

The future Temple should be part and parcel of the world of all those who appreciate the Biblical tradition, and who expect the development - even the transformation - of all humankind, not just the Jews, as announced by the prophet Isaiah (56:3-7):
"for My House shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations".

The Future Temple as the Focus of Social Transformation
Many contemporary movements (including, but certainly not exclusively, "New Age" circles) have put individual growth, even transformation, as the highest aim. In developed societies this goal has replaced the struggle for national liberation. But such personal-spiritual gains may exacerbate the problems of alienation and disintegration of modern societies. At the same time, the most significant contemporary change of humankind is a change in the direction of unification, towards a universal society, a kind of giant human super-organism or a "Global Brain". These changes are the result of the economic and technological ("technotronic") development of organizations, rather than of individuals, and no appropriate socio-spiritual movement has developed to match it. The contemporary world needs new means of social and organizational change in order to add spiritual values into the new technotronic system. The future Temple can help create a spiritual community that includes all of humankind, a global community that leads to harmony and integration.

A Possible Pattern for Building the Future Temple
We propose three alternatives in which it is possible to build and operate the Temple of Jerusalem without interfering with the present structures on the Temple Mount. The first proposed model is a giant cube, about 200 meters (600 feet) on each side built upon giant pillars outside of the Temple Mount and constructed above it. Above the pillars are supported four steel "space-frames" containing thousands of cubical cells, all looking like a cubical envelope over the Temple Mount. This form fits perfectly with Jewish, Christian and Moslem conceptions of the Temple. Its source is an interpretation of the vision of the prophet Ezekiel, according to which the future Temple will contain thousands of cells and chambers whose function was not specified in the prophecy. According to our interpretation the cells are intended for individual development and (self) sacrifice, and the chambers for the appropriate forms of group work.

The Meaning of Sacrifice in the Future Temple
The Jewish tradition contains many explanations for sacrifices. One of the most dramatic moments in the Bible is the binding of Isaac, where on the spot of the future Temple animal sacrifice substituted for the human sacrifice of Isaac.

In the Kabbalah "the secret of sacrifices" (Sod haKorbanot) is interpreted in terms of transformations of spiritual and vital energies (Hayut) to get closer to God. According to the teachings of Hassidism we all have an animal soul and a divine soul. The divine souls are interconnected in hidden ways, and the assembly of all of them constitutes a unified and sacred divine entity, an entity that is developing through the spiritual development of each one of its individual components.

The Torah and its commandments were formed to guide the spiritual transformation from the dominance of the animal soul to the preeminence of the divine soul. This "divine soul" is common to all humankind, as well as to all the spiritual worlds. The majority of the commandments of the Torah deal with Temple worship and the sacrifices, processes of spiritual transformation that are not available to us as long as the Temple is not functioning.

Based on the above ideas we propose that worship in the future Temple will not include the substitute animal sacrifices, but the sacrifice/dedication of the animal soul of each person. In this way we may return to the primal intensity of sacrifice: human sacrifices. This time it will be self-sacrifice rather than the sacrifice of a substitute offering. Sacrifice will return to its primordial meaning, namely man will be able to realize his whole being, illuminated by his Divine spark, through "dying to his animal soul" to make space for the Divine within.

The Worship at the Future Temple as Social and National Transformation
In the Biblical story of Abraham and Isaac, Abraham (Avraham) is called ha'Ivri, the Hebrew. Traditional Biblical commentators emphasize that this word is refers to a passage - ma'Avar. The passage that Abraham made from idolatry to the knowledge of God was not just a personal transformation: it meant the formation of a new nation that was destined to lead all humankind into a similar change and transformation. The future mission of the Temple will be individual, social and even national transformation. On a national level the Temple will lead to The New Israel. It will be a passage from the fixation on the familiar old track: Jews vs. Gentiles, to a new federation of twelve New Israeli Tribes (among which "Judah" - in the sense of orthodox Halakhic-Rabbinic Judaism will be just one, albeit a senior, member), on the way to a future global Israel. Click here for details on what the Temple processes of transformation many look like.

Establishing the Virtual Third Temple
As long as the problems exist which the construction of the real Temple are likely to pose, it is possible to use "virtual reality" and the Internet to produce a simulation of the Temple, with its cells, chambers, courts and shrines.

What we are really concerned with here is not a simulation of forms and the placing of various models on the image of the Temple Mount. The real challenge is to perform simulations of the temple processes as sanctification processes - to generate processes of sacrifice-as-nearing to the Divine, and the spiritual transformation of the participants. The essential question is how can you build sacred space in virtual reality and/or on the Internet?

Many traditional forms of religious ritual are currently disintegrating through the impact of modern media, yet the human need for contact with the sublime remains. This need could find expression and nurturing in the virtual temple. There is a whole generation of people nowadays who would not go to a synagogue or a church, but would not neglect entry into a computer-generated place of worship. Many people want to participate in the more exalted quests of humankind, such as the return to Paradise, The Restoration of Israel, and the Coming (or Return) of the Messiah. The communication and simulation media could support communities and "virtual synagogues" which allow encounters of intensive spiritual rituals, and the virtual temple could be their global focus.
The virtual temple will contain, among other things, individual units - "cells"; places for group work - "chambers" or "lodges"; as well as "altars" and their equipment for the analysis of the spirit and its healing. The pattern discussed above - that of the great cube so appropriate for the visions of the three religious - is, primarily, a matrix of cells, which is an excellent pattern for virtual reality applications. "The virtual pilgrim" will get an individual cell for his/her experiences of the Temple Process.

About Sacrifices in the Virtual Temple
Virtual death sacrifices (as in most computer games) are not that attractive, and are not likely to engage the player spiritually. In order to create meaningful sacrifices in the virtual temple, we can look at what people do in casinos, whether they are real or virtual. The players place tokens - which represent their material assets - on the gambling table, which acts as a kind of altar upon which these "sacrificial offerings" are "burnt". In exchange, they expect the blessing of Chance, a process somewhat reminiscent of the people who used to bring their cattle (Mikne, literally "asset") to the Temple, expecting a blessing, and the priests accepted these for slaughter and burning.



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Here is the rest

The utilization of casino-like procedures may bring more realism and represent the element of risk associated with the offering of sacrifices. People who come to the Temple in order to improve themselves will be able to "gamble" on the spiritual degree they may attain, namely to convert their current spiritual state for a deeper more fulfilling one.

Each participant needs to gamble something important and dear to him. Two possibilities are: 1) personal confessions/annoying secrets which (s)he will be ready to expose in the course of the process or 2) a real sum of money. An important condition for the sacrifice of money is - just like it was in the real Temple - that the money deposited shall not be more than a tenth of one's capital, and will be distributed to charities through certified organizations.

Where To Go From Here

The Virtual Third Temple will be open to all peoples. Everyone who visits it will have the opportunity to worship and transform themselves through the Temple processes. Beyond individual transformation is the potential to form communities that break traditional barriers through shared spiritual experiences. These communities can lead to a new level of tolerance and respect for the other in the light of Divine inspiration and knowing.

We invite you to participate in the building of the Third Temple. Contact us with your ideas, proposals, and support.

(This is a summation of the second essay by Dr. Y.I. Hayut-Ma'N in the Hebrew book "Let the Old be Renewed and the New Sanctified - insights into the Meaning of the Temple" (haYashan Yithadesh vehaHadash yitkadesh - he'arot leMashma'ut haMikdash. Click here for the translated essay).
www.thehope.org...



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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Lots of good points...



It is our realization that the final half of Daniel’s 70th Week begins at the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION and its apparent, and perhaps murky identification with Feast of Tabernacles (or Feast of Booths or Nations or Feast of Ingathering; known as SUKKOT) at the literal Third Temple in Jerusalem


It hadn't occurred to me about this possible link to The Feast of Tabernacles...






“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple (Greek: naos-see below) of God, showing himself that he is God.”


I agree that the temple (naos) mentioned in Thess. (above) is not a reference to a physical temple but the church. BUT the passage is a simile, it does not say that the Man of Sin (false prophet) sits in the temple. It say he sits AS God sits in his Temple (ie He is Lord / Ruler / God in His Church / Temple). It is a comparison, it says the Man of Sin is taking upon himself the title and authority of God. He (False Prophet and for that matter the Beast will also do this) will declare himself God, and require people to worship him.



[edit on 18-11-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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"I agree that the temple (naos) mentioned in Thess. (above) is not a reference to a physical temple but the church. BUT the passage is a simile, it does not say that the Man of Sin (false prophet) sits in the temple. It say he sits AS God sits in his Temple (ie He is Lord / Ruler / God in His Church / Temple). It is a comparison, it says the Man of Sin is taking upon himself the title and authority of God. He (False Prophet and for that matter the Beast will also do this) will declare himself God, and require people to worship him."

I was always under the impression that it was the actual rebuilding of the third temple on the site of the second where a mosque now sits. That belief is what has caused the rift of the political situation in Jerusalem today. Am I that far off?

Zindo



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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When that question came up, I went back and re-read the verse, and noticed that it did not say that he (Man of Sin) actually sits in the Temple (naos) but sits LIKE (or AS) God sits in His Temple. Again, it does not say he actually sits in it (that is, sits in the naos, or the Spiritual Temple...some are saying this is a reference to a man who died in the 90's), but sits down (on his own throne of power) LIKE God sits down on His throne of power. It is a comparison not a statement of what he will do, that is, he never sits in the "naos" the spiritual Temple, but he does, and most likely will sit in a physical temple in Jerusalem as other verses indicate.



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib_2
 


Now thats how I always understood it to mean. I was also taught that it was one of the reasons that the second temple was destroyed. To prevent the second comming!

Zindo



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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Just to rephrase what I was saying to make it clearer (I hope)

The Thessalonian passage does not say that :

The Man of Sin sits in either the
1) heiron (physical temple)
2) naos (spiritual temple)

it says he will sit "as/like" God sits. That is he will take on God's title and authority.

Other scriptures (Daniel) do indicate he will sit in some physical temple.

The point I was trying to emphasize is that the Man of Sin does not actually sit in the "naos" temple, as some want the verse to read, and that this refers to some man in the 90's who died...this is incorrect, it does not mean this.





[edit on 18-11-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]





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