Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Gateway
Then nothing that the neocons are doing that has created our economic collapse, and turned the public against the current administration, is against
Wrong. Oh boy...Not this "the MARKET" is the cause of our problems, rubbish....First of all our current financial problems was a due to government
meddling in the free-markets. Particularly in the price of interest rates. A central bank/Fed has no business dictating interest rates, hence you
have the problem with artificial manipulation. If you push interest rates to 1% what did you expect was going to happen? Nobody would borrow?
People acted RATIONALLY to IRRATIONAL interest rates!!
Having a FED is as good as having a central planing body, dictating what the price of money should be, hence it is not capitalism.
In fact the whole notion of having a FED/CENTRAL BANK is one of the "TEN PLANKS OF COMMUNISM". 5.
Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. I.e. a Central
Then we have the government further distorting WHO should be lent through the "Community Reinvestment Act" this further pushes the Free-Market to
make bad loans to people that shouldn't have-wouldn't have been lent money since they WOULD be considered TOO risky if the government had not
coerced the free-market, then we further have government created entities Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which make these loans MARKETABLE by buying them
and reselling them.
ALL of these problems we have today, IS DUE TO MARKET INTERFERENCE BY THE GOVERNMENT!!
Government has a fundamental role in regulating business in order to create competitive, efficient markets.
This nonsense again huh? Government AGAIN REGULATES to limit entry, and thus LIMIT COMPETITION. LIMITING COMPETITION DOES NOT CREATE
EFFICIENT MARKETS, IT HAMPERS THEM.
Without regulation, corruption takes over and criminals wind up running our corporations and financial institutions.
If companies are corrupt then they naturally will fail. Good companies are not in the business of expropriating from business owners for
their own private use, and even if so there are criminal laws which would prosecute this abuse. Government regulators cannot and do not the
capability to read every single accounting transaction made by every single business, thus LIKE I'VE SAID THE PRIMARY REGULATOR OF INDUSTRIES are the
investors, bond holders, or owners that punish this type of bad behavior. So contrary to what you think, most regulation is self-imposed and is
privately done, and not done by bureaucrats.
Thus we are lead to the financial crisis that we are in, and bailouts are unavoidable to prevent a total collapse of the system.
Bull...business fail and that's part of capitalism. What's not capitalism is when bad business managers or owners are rewarded and
propped-up by taxpayer money. If the U.S. auto manufacturers fail, its because management has done a poor job of running the business, it does not
mean these companies will go away. What it does mean, is that if they file for bankruptcy new owners will come along buy up the assets, fire
management and re-negotiate bad labor contracts in order to streamline the business and make it profitable again.
The answer is to prosecute the criminals, and restore the stolen funds to their rightful owners.
There is a difference between regulation and prosecution. If a crime was committed by a business then it naturally falls under our FRAUD
laws. The business or management that has broken these laws that have long been in the books are thus prosecutable.
Regulation however has nothing to do with PROTECTING the business owners or making business profitable. Regulations adds costs to doing business as
well as make it more difficulty for entry in markets.
The government needs to enforce the law to prevent fraudulent business practices, refusal to honor contracts, use of clauses to rob associates, false
advertising, posioning of the water, air, and land, unsafe practices that endanger human lives. It shouldn't come down to who can hire the best
army of lawyers.
Everything you said is already covered by private property rights and enforcement of contracts. Think of it this way if you sign a contract
to purchase a home with an ARM and you no longer can pay for it...THEN SHOULDN'T YOU LOSE your home?
Of course you'll probably say....NO NO...DON'T ENFORCE THIS contract.
Or how about a private business owner wanting to have a bar where people could smoke....HERE again...you liberals will chime in...NO NO....HE HAS NO
RIGHT TO SAY WHO AND WHAT HE COULD DO IN HIS PLACE OF BUSINESS.
Liberals are notorious for contradictions.
By the way, Pollution, human life, false advertising, is all covered under property rights.
Also, only the NEOCONS AND SOCIALISTS are clamoring for MARKET intervention. How is my position in line with that of those two groups?
Aren't YOU the one that is in favor of "Bail-outs", therefore it is YOU that is standing with the NEOCONS OR SOCIALISTS, NOT I. (Again, it goes to
show that socialism is marginally indistinguishable from it's cousin Neoconservativism.) Bush, Obama, Mcain all wanted the Bail-Outs....and still
are pushing for more Bail-Outs.
If we are not going to enforce laws against businesses, then we might as well stop enforcing all laws.
You just need to enforce property rights, and contracts. Everything else can pretty much self-regulate.
Some con artist rips you off, you hunt him down and kill him, and then we would have a true laissez-faire system.
Nonsense, under property rights if you have been duped, or something was done to you or property the person who committed said acts has an
obligation to compensate you.
If businesses are allowed to operate beyond the law, then so should the rest of us. In fact, a little of this type of anarchy might be needed to
restore a balance in our economy.
Yes like the balance we have now!! Thank god we have big-government colluding with big-corporations bailing out business and banks left and right,
wasting taxpayer dollars, on unsound businesses. Printing money we don't have increasing deficits, further regulations which will only increase the
stranglehold of the large corporations we have now.
You make a great case for the STATUS QUO, a position in the BUSH OR OBAMA cabinet regime suits you well. One thing is for certain...capitalism, is
not something all three of YOU GUYS LIKE OR WANT...instead it's corporatism, subsidies, and protectionism...is what ALL three of you are in favor
Of course, you refuse to admit that Reagan is the father of the neocons.
I don't know what you're getting at here. Your attempt to somehow hurt my feeling by bringing this scumbags name up is laughable. This guy
is king of the morons, he was not a CONSERVATIVE he was an INTERVENTIONIST, AND ran up deficits. Like I said the Neoconservative movement started
with NIXON and proceeded to spread from there...like a virus. Sorry to burst your bubble, Reagan is no hero of mine nor conservativism.
[edit on 12-11-2008 by Gateway]