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**Important Message to ALL my fellow Conservatives** (please read)

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posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Katai,

I agree democracy can not and should not be spread at the end of a gun, missle, or any other instrument of death. By doing so you remove the fundamental element, freedom of choice. I don't believe any man should be ruled with an iron fist as many dictatorships do, but this is the base element of the problem with our current political system. The only difference being there is more than one iron fist and there is an incorrect stigma that we get to choose which fist punches us in the stomach.

HunkaHunka,

You are quite correct in your assertion that much of the populace has embraced Barack. On the other hand, I could have replaced him with Scooby Doo or any other ficticious character and if I had run them on a platform of "CHANGE" would have beat Mccain. Obama has been embraced much in the same way GW was post 9/11. I will even go so far to say that the methods used to get one to do so are eerily similar. I am saddened that after the last 8 years people would allow them selves to be manipulated in this way. Lets look at this point by point comparing now and then, people are scared of what the future may hold. There are rumors of impending doom that have been spun and weaved by the person looking for support. No, specifics have been given as to how said leader plans to solve the situation, instead blanket statements have been made which lead one to believe that the situation will be handled with our countries best interest in mind. People have gullibly and blindly ate up the statements and when anyone tries to make a argument that disagrees with the leader, they are railed and labled as the enemy. Most of which never actually has to be done by the leader because the populace will do it for them out of fear. The only major difference I see is what the impending doom entails and the labels being thrown at opposition are. The older I get the more I realize my Mom was right, TV truly does rot your brain.

Independentjournal,

You are right on when reffering to the farce that is evolution. I have seen Hawking as well as countless other prominant evolutionists state that this theory should not be taught to our young. There are to many flaws with this theory to name, so I will post a video or of Hawking commenting on this.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

There are many many sites dedicated to debunking this myth, all one needs to do to find them is google evolution debunked. Many of these sites provide REAL scientific data that 100% disproves even the possibility of this theory and may of them have absolutely nothing to do with creationism.

I know this is off topic from OP, but another poster had asked for proof of statements by Hawking and other scientists. I don't like to see some one arrogantly support this theory without even so much as looking at the over whelming scientific evidence that refutes the theory.




posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I didn't have time to read all the replies but I have a couple of questions for you conservatives that are now blaming your loss on the "Neocons" and saying they don't represent your party.

1) Did you vote for George Bush in 2000, and 2004?

2) Did you support the invasion of Iraq, which was the "Neocons" agenda?

If you reply yes to both these questions then how can you justify in your mind blaming ex-Liberals for your loss?

This is the problem I see with conservatives these days. They always twist things around and blame someone else.

I do think this is an excellent topic though, so carry on.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Gateway
What we must do now, is pick-up the pieces, and understand what is A CONSERVATIVE?


Thats right, I would hope that you would be glad that McCain lost. I am, because he ain't a CONSERATIVE? Thats right dude, Palin is a CONSERATIVE, not McCain. Also Whats driving young voters away from your party is bring religion with it. Maybe if you seperate your (blank) Christian Values and stop imposing on us, I would vote for lesser government, I would vote Republican.
Also I believe we shouldn't be on oil and there isn't enough down there below the American Feet to fuel our need. I'm tired of giving my hard earn cash to Saudi Arabia and Venezuela just to get to work. I'm tired of Republicans saying my public Tranist is a waste of money when half the time I need it because I can't afford gas. If you walk more than two miles in your life time over a week, you have my respect, but I am tired of doing it since Middle School.
Hey Conseratives, wake up, you live in a Socialized country from the necessary Police to the Welfare and the SSI you may, (I won't get a dime of it, I'm 27) get is define as Socialism. Thus the Term Social Security. I know a lot of nuts who get Social Security. Most of these people belong in a nut house but since the Republicans in this State of TX, wheren I reside is being cut, these nuts are ending up in my neighborhood.
If you want to cut Welfare and I know that you conseratives doo, maybe you should re-instate that funding back to the nut houses so these people have a place to go after they are off their medication for a while. Boy, then their nuts.
Maybe like every other political ideology, bring that back down to earth, and think real hard. Maybe those funding for scientific studies of the sex habbits of truckers will help prevent the further spread of aids and other dieases. Maybe help funding the studies of Fruit Flies will actually help the study of a cure for Palin's son. I know they sound nuts, but read Scientific American story on fruit flies. You may find out that these little guys are an Invaluabe tool when it comes to the study of Genetics. Also Fruit Flies are a bad insects when it comes to Orange crops and other fruit crops in this country. Lets stop funding this research, (blank) the american Farmer.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
This is the problem I see with conservatives these days. They always twist things around and blame someone else.


Everybody does that. Welcome to the human race.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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It surprizes me that so many people are so critical of Bush. I may not agree with everything hes done while in office, but I also understand that it takes more than your everyday average joe to be the President of the United States. I highly doubt that any of the people who are extremely critical of the Bush Admin. could walk even a step in his shoes as President. Imagine what a huge burden of responsibility it would be to be the ruler of the free world. Every decision you make will never make everyone happy, and what you decide to do at one time, in retrospect, may not have been the right one. On top of that, I can tell you that the information we get on choices made by Bush, are effected by more variables then any of us are aware of. I think it's reasonable to to say that Bush hasnt always made the right choice on issues, but unreasonable to verbally abuse him when we dont even know a shadow of the incredible burden placed on a President.

With that said, I will say this: I have sat and read posts on this website for a couple of months now, and only today have joined ATS. This seems like an awesome forum for contemplation of non-mainstream ideas. Thanks for providing us this venue, ATS!

As far as our newly elected President Barak Obama is concerned, I will say this: watch for the news headlines that theres been an assasination attempt, where he is wounded to the head, and recovers from the grevious wound quickly. Could it be a sign that he is the antichrist? You tell me...

Treemanx



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Magnus47

Originally posted by Hal9000
This is the problem I see with conservatives these days. They always twist things around and blame someone else.


Everybody does that. Welcome to the human race.

I agree. Everybody blames the Republicans for our problems.



Seriously, is this thread some serious Monday morning quarterbacking, or what?

Where was this discussion before the election?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Gateway
 


What I find the most telling about your internal criticism of your party is captured in this line:



It's time for the "Neoconservative" movement to be put back in its bottle and go back to the Democratic Party where it belongs.


You are right the Republican party has become the Corporatist Party; The War Party; and I would add the White Male Elitist Party.

What strikes me is that you talk of sending the 'neocon" values BACK to the Democratic Party where they belong. Of course the Democrats have played their part in todays mess but it is the Republican Party that now is based on these principles. As a Progressive Democrat I can assure you I do not want these values in my party and neither do many (if not all) of those who I know are my cohort.

Wouldn't it be great for those who refuse to break with their party, even when their party no longer represents them, to be able to take all the bad and send it to the 'opposing' party thus empowering their own while weighing down the 'competition'.

IMHO it lacks merit in that it embraces an us verses them mentality. It TOTALLY overlooks the ideals of progress and improvement.

I wish you and yours the best in reconstructing the Republican party as I believe that a strong republican party based on true values, morality, and right action are a major benefit to the country. Though I disagree with much of what the party stands for it is the push and pull between the two sides of the American Coin that keep us on the straight and narrow.

It is a disappointment to me as a US citizen that you choose the path of division rather one of unity. I think that we will not see Socialism destroy our nation any time soon and quite honestly I find it rather uninteresting as a critique of the new administration before a single action has been taken. I find it rather boring as it merely a way of 'labeling' and in essence and by intent 'de-humanizing' the 'opposition'.

Rather than wishing for a USA where all of these ideals that only harm us are eradicated you with them on your 'opponent". Why? Is not it time we left them behind as a nation collectively?

Rather than realizing the inherent flaws the Republican Party has fostered over the last decades and deciding it is no longer the party that represents your ideals and values you choose not to work to better the nation by helping to rid us ALL of such mean spirited politics but seek to use it as a tool for gaining POWER won in the name of division.

It is party over country, another of the Republican's greatest flaws in recent years.

Enjoy the box you have chosen as your conceptual 'home' if you would like to venture out into the wider world of 'thought' we would all welcome your presence!


[edit on 6-11-2008 by Animal]

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Animal]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


My Opinion:

I think that during the Clinton years, the GOP started to be infiltrated by the extremists (or whatever you want to call them). George Bush was the first president they put forth. It wasn't apparent even during his first 2-3 years that he and his practices would be the ruin of the GOP.

And even then, it came on slowly as people started to realize that this man was NOT a true conservative.

George Bush represents most of what's wrong with the GOP right now and why NO Republican running for president would likely be elected. Especially one with such close ties to Bush.

So, I understand the party blaming Neocons, but it's up to them to do something about it, for certain.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


The OP isnt blaming the liberals please state where he is doing this. He is blaming the Republican party who has lost their way.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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All I can say is the Democrats won fair and square and the Republicans are gonna have to come together strong or tuck their tails between their legs and drag their butts across the ground. I'm a conservative that believes in less government, less taxes, family values etc... but I haven't seen any of that since Reagan. It's nobody's fault but America itself and we can only hope that America can change with the times and keep the dreams of our founding fathers alive. For now it's the democratic parties chance to fix things because the republican party failed.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


We have been talking about this for years now look here on ATS this has been brought up for awhile now. Ron Paul being one of the main figures pointing it out that the Republicans fell off the track somewhere.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I agree that by blaming some other group they obviously do not understand the problem yet. The problem is the divisive view they have that anyone who does not agree with them does not count. I also wish them luck in their enlightenment.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I agree to an extent about George Bush. In my opinion, GB was not a "Neocon" but took the advice of others like Karl Rove and surrounded himself with Neocons. I only use the term because that is what people refer to them as. They are Republicans none the less. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield are career Republicans since before the split in the Democratic party. How can they be called "Neocons"? It is not a correct reference to use IMO and I noticed you didn't use it.

The group I blame are those in PNAC, which almost every Bush Administration staff was a member of, except GB himself. They are the ones that conspired to invade Iraq back in 1998, and is where the bulk of the national debt is going toward paying for.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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I agree, Hal, it's the PNAC crowd that started this business back when Clinton was president. And even though George Bush wasn't a member, he was their tool.

There are some great Republicans out there and I hope we start hearing more of them and get off this destructive, divisive bent this country has been on for many years. People can have different values and ideals and still run a country together.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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WE need more jesus!GUNS! NO ABORTIONS! JESUS IS OUR SAVIOUR!

YA... The GOP has turned into the filthy scum of the EARTH...
ALL cheat no heart - blood and filth!



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Neo-con. ultra-lib..... This is just what the left and right do when they get cornered and people start calling them out. They sit and point fingers! .... The conservatives didn't loose their way... They are right on track...right along with the liberals....they made this mess we all have to live with now and both want to make excuses and point fingers...
The problem is all of you on the left and right have been blinded and can't see past your own nose and believe any thing these talking heads put on the air waves.
You don't want real change or you would have tried a different party one that wasn't entrenched in career politicians and lobbist. How about next time you vote R or D just give me the pleasure of a reach around for the money your costing me on taxes and bank bail outs. Thats right now the people who really voted for change can be the ones in the back of the room saying I told ya so....



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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This is a very important thread, with some very creative and innovative, theories and ideas. Not just for conservatives, but anyone that truly cares about America, it's citizens and it's future.

Bump



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
Gateway this is why you are on my friends list and would be at the top if that option was given
You are correct 100%. This is not about Obama. This is all about how the Republican party has lost its way. Everything they promised in 2000 they went completely the opposite direction and in 2006 and now 2008 they paid for it. The Republicans have some serious soul searching they need to do and according to inside sources they are having this search tonight in a meeting in the mountains. All the peeps are meeting to tweak the platform. The fact is the same people who created their neocon platform are the same ones doing the meeting. People like Ron Paul were not invited. Ron Paul has been calling so much and even called the downfall of the Republicans but they still will not listen. I think the idea the Republicans will change back to their roots is t farce. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. I think the Libertarians will soon be the new Republican party.

BTW all the names you mentioned as the corruptors are great. Sums it up well. One sect you left out and that is the religious right. I dont see where you mentioned them. They too are a big part of the Republicans losing their way. They try to ram this legislative morality down peoples throats and start wars for "holy" purposes in the middle east. Puhhlleaasse.


I would love to see the Libertarian Party take over as the next main stream Conservative party.. I would love to see a three party system, with Dems to the left, Reps in the middle, and Libertarians on the right.

What the Libertarian Party needs.. is spotlight. They need a charismatic leader to bring this party to the World Stage and give the people another option.. If they could swing a seat in the House, it would be a good footing in the door.

So far the Libertarian Party has precious few members running against Reps and Dems for Senate or House.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


They need the media. Face it if the media paid as much attention to a guy like Ron Paul as they did Obama then RP would be your president right now. Hes not the greatest speaker unlike Obama who speaks very well but the message that he gives beats all. The Republicans are a lost cause and I will be focusing on getting the Libertarian name out there. Bob Barr was a bad choice however for their ticket.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


I have to say that I totally agree with your statement and very well put, I have to admit that I cannot wait to see old George and Dick get the f out of dodge..Goodbye to Halliburton and thank god, Those people drained our economy and hurt our troops more than helped them. Im not sure where B O is going to lead us but Im very glad that Halliburton may not see anymore contracts and old Dick will really see some pain..I stand by my gut feeling of not voting and I only want to see our economy flourish and our troops home safe and stationed on the border....






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