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32 people killed every single day

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posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


What happens if you get a mental illness, find your lover cheating, or get made redundant and hit the bottle? Your logic, as fine as it is, is based solely upon the assumption that you are always going to be 100% in control of your faculties, until you either die or cease having a gun.

The problem is not responsible gun owners, it's irresponsible gun owners and responsible gun owners who are no longer responsible.


What happens if...What happens if...What happens if.....

What happens if an irresponsible person drinks too much, gets behind the wheel of a car and plows into a bunch of children killing them all.

Guess we should ban cars - all of them.

*****

What if a man breaks into my home holding a gun and wants to rape me. I grab my glass vace and scream: "go away you big bad man or i will hit you over the head with my vace".

OR

What if a man breaks into my home holding a gun and wants to rape me. I grab my gun (that requires me to have training by law enforcement) and shoot him before he has the chance to harm me or anyone ever again.


Hmmm. I will take the later. Thanks!!




posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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To all the gun bashers out there, it's not the legal gun owners who are doing the shooting. If you outlaw guns, this will not change, only outlaws will have them. Just like now.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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....on this thread, I've heard, " just stay out of the ghetto if you don't want to get shot" and people have been comparing the number of violent gun deaths to cancer victims and whatnot, saying that it's not as much of a problem as we make it out to be.
It sounds to me like your saying that its not a problem at all.

32 people die a day from gun violence, and in two thousand and seven, around 112 people died a day in the US. (en.wikipedia.org...)

Although it may be a fact that automobiles kill a higher number of people a day, something still needs to be done about the 32 who die from guns, as something needs to be done about the 112 who died in 2007 due to automobile accident.

Although its not a staggering number, no deaths at all is a hell of an improvement from 32, and we should strive for that, just as we should strive to bring down the amount of people who die in cars and the amount of people who die from cancer.
It's not about statistics, because when it all comes down to it, a life is a life. You can't put a number value on a life, and that's what makes it so valubale.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by summerdreary
 


On the subject of violent gun deaths. You need to take into account that out of the 32 more than half of gun deaths are from suicide, and not violence.

That number should be changed to 16 (in your argument), because more than half of the gun deaths in the US are due to suicide, and anyone could commit suicide without a gun. Sadly, people choose to take their own lives. It has been going on before there were guns.

So we are down to 16. Lets say, out of that 16 they were all innocent people murdered by a gun, (which they are not). If those 16 people would have been armed and trained at the time, then that number would be even less.

Thing about that is, of that 16, I would put money on alot of them being some sort of shady dealings.

So you get rid of thugs, and suicide, where does that leave your number?

Almost down to nothing. Sadly, there are a few accidents relating to gun deaths. But that is the minority. There are accidents with everything. People accidently slip in their bathroom and die.

The point being, guns do more good than harm. And if we look closely at what the numbers actually mean, then you will realize that the numbers are only in place to make an argument against guns. The media sure knows how to word things. I call those words fnords. They don't break down those numbers to reveal the truth. It is rare to find a chart showing how many of those gun deaths are from thugs, and shady dealings, or a chart showing how many lives guns actually save. You only read about the psycho going ballistic on a school, or the thug accidently shooting a kid, never about the hero who saved a life with his gun.














[edit on 6-11-2008 by schism85]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by summerdreary

Although its not a staggering number, no deaths at all is a hell of an improvement from 32, and we should strive for that, just as we should strive to bring down the amount of people who die in cars and the amount of people who die from cancer.

I can absolutely agree with this. One needless death is one death too many. However, the debate is not about whether or not we should allow people to die, but rather is gun control an effective means to stop such deaths. I think it was on the last page where I mentioned several experiments with gun control. In every case, the results were an increase in gun-related deaths. I also spoke of some experiments in a lack of gun control. In each of those cases, the number of deaths from guns decreased.

So according to those results and your own logic, we should force every legally-eligible citizen to have a gun in their home. But I stop short of advocating this, because the reality is I do not want any more government regulation, whether it's gun control, gun issuance, or any other action taken to help 'save lives'. The jury is in on gun control; it has the opposite effect of what its proponents would have us believe, and the right of US citizens to own operational weapons has been upheld (again).


It's not about statistics, because when it all comes down to it, a life is a life. You can't put a number value on a life, and that's what makes it so valubale.

And this is indeed the very reason people want to be able to protect that life they hold so dear.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by calihan123
 


Most gun deaths are Gang Bangers killing other Gang Bangers. Get rid of the gangs, problem solved. I'll leave the method up to you.

Taking guns from normal law abiding people will not stop the gun deaths.

Criminalizing gun ownership will not stop gun deaths. I give DC as proof. Criminals don't care about laws.

Accidental gun death is rare and far more people are killed in sports activities. Should we outlaw sports? Skiing is deadly. Snowboarding is deadly. Mountain Climbing is deadly. People who do all of the above leave children and spouses behind just so they can have fun. Target shooting is safer than nearly every other sport.

What you really mean is that you have a phobia of guns yourself, is it not? Guns are not animated and can not self-animate and shoot someone. The danger is the person who can do just as much harm with a limb off a tree, a baseball bat, a tire iron, a kitchen knife and the list goes on and on. Do we outlaw every potential weapon and how do we get rid of all the rocks which are often used in killing?

People need to abandon this nonsense of blaming inanimate objects for the actions of bad people. The only solution is to get rid of the bad people. What is your solution to that?

I think violent people can not be rehabilitated. They will always use violence as a solution to their issues. I think our crime rate here is due to the fact we won't admit this for some insane PC reason. Poor little bad guys got no love when they were little, boohoo. So what if he blinded that kid with acid, he is rehabilitated now. Give him subsidized housing, food stamps and he won't ever hurt anyone again. That mentality has got to go where violent people are concerned.

My suggestion? An island that can not be escaped, shelters, daily food rations dropped by parachute and let them gang bang away for the rest of their lives. Do that and your gun problem goes away.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by calihan123
 

My suggestion? An island that can not be escaped, shelters, daily food rations dropped by parachute and let them gang bang away for the rest of their lives. Do that and your gun problem goes away.


I'm with ya on that friend, only if I can be the Duke. Or Plissken.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555

My suggestion? An island that can not be escaped, shelters, daily food rations dropped by parachute and let them gang bang away for the rest of their lives. Do that and your gun problem goes away.

I have often thought about this as well. Strictly for life imprisonment with no chance of parole, after all available appeals are exhausted... away to the rock.

Once there, monthly dropping of staple rations, yearly dropping of seed and one supply of farming utensils (hoes, shovels, etc) every 5 years. No rules, except this one: you go in, you never come out. Ever. For any reason. A fleet of naval vessels stationed around the island with orders to shoot to kill anyone trying to swim or raft out will make that work.

We simply have too many animals in our society who will never change. That's fine, they can have their choice of the type of life they lead. They can stay in society and act with some measure of decorum, or they leave our society and exist (or cease to exist) on their own. It's their choice.

A star for you.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Hahahah!! That is sooo funny. Thats exactly how it was in Escape from New York. It was a prison island, no guards, and anyone who goes in, doesn't come back. I can only asssume they were dropped off rations.
You guys are like 20 years late on that idea. JK

I agree. Let them live together by their own standards. Except in the movie they were breaking out, and the president crash landed there. But whats the chance of that. Give em a thug island, fit for thugs. I bet they wouldn't mind it.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by schism85]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by schism85

Escape From New York was actually where I got the idea. It sounds plausible to me, unlike most movie-based ideas. Only the idea of doing it to a city seemed a bit far-fetched, an island would be much better IMO.

TheRedneck
"Call me Snaaaaake..."



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by schism85
 


You mean to say NYC isn't a prison island full of scum and degenerates?

Could've fooled me.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I thought you didn't know.
I remember them being on an island, maybe staten or something. I could be wrong, I haven't seen it in awhile.

But you give em an island, it better be far enough away that they can't swim back. I think it would be a great idea. Let them kill each other off, if they please.

I just looked it up, you are right, they were not on an island. There was a huge containment barrier.

ETA: They were on Manhatten Island. Thats why I thought that.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by schism85]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Hahhaha! LMAO!


Its not as crazy as escape from new york though. Issac Hayes doesn't rule the Island.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:30 PM
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Glad to see I'm not alone in this


Something has got to be done about releasing habituals back into society and we have got to stop putting harmless people in prison. Our priorities are all messed up.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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For me a Gun is a weapon. There are a lot of weapons on the planet. Guns, bullets, knives, bombs, landmines, daisycutters(really love them) ,etc, the list is endless. Together they have ended a lot of lives prematurely.

Anyway, I have this real sick fantasy where I sometimes will sit and meditate on what the world would be like without any weapons. I close my eyes and just imagine how the world would work without any weapons. I think back through History and think see so many things dissolving becuase the world never invented weapons, it never even invented the word 'weapon' , we dont even know what the word means. This will sound very daft to a lot of people but you should sit down and try it. You would be surprised what comes into your head and how things start working themselves out in your mind. A world without weapons. Its really cool. i love doin it.

But, enough of my sick fantasy, back to reality , weapons were invented. The word weapon is in the dictionary. Well heres another thought then. What if we all picked a date. Any date. On that date all weapons are set down and disarmed. We disown the word. Its 2008. Why should we keep using and manufacturing weapons because people did so in the last century. We are in the first decade of a new century. It would be so easy to change. Anyways , I can dream.

and before people start raving about how this cannot work , please sit for moment and try to meditate on how a world without weapons would work. You will be surprised by answers and the peace that come into your mind.


Peace



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Heres what I dont get. Why do people always think about the possibilities of other countries nuking us, or our own government killing us, or some sort of genocide, and not about the fact that on average, every single day in America 89* people kill themselves by suicide? 89 people a day. And we are so concerned with everything BUT what is happening in our own cities. Our own neighboorhoods.

Maybe we should worry a little more about the mental health of our fellow American Citizens before we start thinking about some outrageous nuclear war claims.

DocMoreau

*National Institute of Mental Health: Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention

Suicide is a major, preventable public health problem. In 2004, it was the eleventh leading cause of death in the U.S., accounting for 32,439 deaths.1 The overall rate was 10.9 suicide deaths per 100,000 people.1 An estimated eight to 25 attempted suicides occur per every suicide death.2



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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I know it was meant as a joke, but in the game Grand Theft Auto they have a 'radio commercial' advertisement for a gun store, and it is actually quite appropriate. It talks about home protection (I can't remember it word for word), something like: "If someone breaks into your home, what are you going to do? Call the police? It takes the police an average of 15 minutes to respond to a call for help. In that time the intruder could rape your wife, stop for a cigarette, flip her over and go in for seconds."

I know that example is fiction and not entirely realistic. But think about how long it would take the police to respond, and what an intruder in your home could do to you and your family in that amount of time? Guns save more people than they kill. I myself was assaulted by 3 men armed with knives in front of my house. It took the police almost half-an-hour to respond, long after the men were gone. If they had decided to kill me right then and there, fat lotta good the police woulda done me. If I had been armed, things would have turned out quite different I assure you.

Chrono



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by calihan123

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by calihan123
those are the facts. gun deaths come in second place only to vehicle accidents.

stop and think about it.



What is your solultion to the underground weapon problem were the criminals are obtaining their weapons?


well its obviously not a problem in some countries, and they have learned how to control it for the most part, so im pretty sure we could figure it out too if they can



What countries would these be?



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by calihan123

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by calihan123
because guns are an easy way to kill. without them people wouldnt go through the same effort with stabbings. a gun is a simple shot and your dead. any other method if killing isnt so easy.


right, because before guns, murder was just too hard that nobody bothered. Come on now.


id like you to tell me then why these other countries only have a few murders per year, and they dont allow guns.

help me understand that issue if you are going to try and make a point about this



What Countries?



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by irishjon1973
For me a Gun is a weapon. There are a lot of weapons on the planet. Guns, bullets, knives, bombs, landmines, daisycutters(really love them) ,etc, the list is endless. Together they have ended a lot of lives prematurely.

Anyway, I have this real sick fantasy where I sometimes will sit and meditate on what the world would be like without any weapons. I close my eyes and just imagine how the world would work without any weapons. I think back through History and think see so many things dissolving becuase the world never invented weapons, it never even invented the word 'weapon' , we dont even know what the word means. This will sound very daft to a lot of people but you should sit down and try it. You would be surprised what comes into your head and how things start working themselves out in your mind. A world without weapons. Its really cool. i love doin it.

But, enough of my sick fantasy, back to reality , weapons were invented. The word weapon is in the dictionary. Well heres another thought then. What if we all picked a date. Any date. On that date all weapons are set down and disarmed. We disown the word. Its 2008. Why should we keep using and manufacturing weapons because people did so in the last century. We are in the first decade of a new century. It would be so easy to change. Anyways , I can dream.

and before people start raving about how this cannot work , please sit for moment and try to meditate on how a world without weapons would work. You will be surprised by answers and the peace that come into your mind.


Peace


Argh, once again, its the person with the weapon and not the weapon that causes damage and death. Dismantle all the guns, bombs, and other weapons and you'll just make people revert to throwing rocks and swinging sticks. Humans are the problem, not the weapons. As long as there are more than one person on this earth there will never be peace and I would put money on the last person on earth eventually losing his/her mind and committing suicide in one last act of violence on the human race.


[edit on 6/11/08 by Pfeil]




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