This was posted on Touchdown News - still looking around for confirmation



Red Flag’ official apologises to IAF


Gautam DattFirst Published : 18 Nov 2008 02:04:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 18 Nov 2008 10:54:23 AM

ISTNEW DELHI: After a US Air Force (USAF) pilot was shown in a YouTube clip trashing India’s frontline fighter jet Su-30 MKI saying it failed to impress during the recently held Red Flag war games, the organisers of the exercise have apologised to the Indian Air Force (IAF) for the remarks. In a letter to Air Headquarters, an official of the Red Flag said it was the personal view of the USAF pilot talking in the clip and not of those
involved in the exercise.

The organisers are looking forward for the participation of the IAF in the
future editions of Red Flag, said the letter.
The appearance of the clip in the cyber space had embarrassed the IAF even as it was immediately rubbished. The clip shows a pilot apparently giving a presentation but there are no audience shown in the video.
The person, in uniform, talks about how the Su-30 MKIs were dominated by USAF’s F-15s and F-22 Raptors.
The person said in the clip how the aircraft lost out during dogfights and
singled out problems with its thrust vectoring and the fact that it took up
to a minute to arrange its take-off while the rest of the aircraft took only
seconds.

The official, however, praised IAF’s MiG- 21 Bison which has been modified with Israeli radar, active radar missiles and electronic jammers. He claimed MiG-21s were nearly invisible to the F-15 and F-16s, a fact which was demonstrated when the USAF fighters had taken part in joint exercises in India. After the clip surfaced, the IAF took up the issue with defence attaché in the US embassy and efforts were made to get it removed.

The officials said some of the technical claims made in the clip were incorrect and it was a pathetic attempt to prove a point. Aviation expert Pushpender Singh told to this website’s newspaper that it
was unfortunate that the most powerful air force in the world was resorting to such tactics. He said the video was full of inaccuracies. For example, the person in the video claimed that the MiG-21 Bisons were equipped with the Israeli radar.“It is wrong. The aircraft has a Russian radar,” said Singh.

The clip is being viewed as a ploy by the industry to prove a point. It might be an attempt to convince the US Government in ordering more F-22 Raptors. The US aviation giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin, the makers of F-16s and F-18s, are also competing with Russians for multi-billion dollar contract to supply multi-role combat aircraft to the IAF

Where is the post made by WestPoint23??.



I was going to reply to it but it seems to have disappeared

i feel i should comment about the whole engine and FOD `issue` - which country , other than the place of origin actually have the facility to strip and overhalu a damaged engine?


do switzerland for its F-18`s? or saudi arabia for its Tornado`s?

the answer is no they don`t - when or if an engine gets damaged , then its taken out and returned - or a spare/replacement flown in

so its understandable for the IAF to be cautious - they don`t want there aircraft accidently damaged thousands of miles from home.

Cobbz..

How can it be slightly better than the F-15 when the guy himself says:

1) AESA better than PESA.

2) F-15 (weapons loaded) dominated over clean Su-30s with both sides having having comparable flight hours.

There isn't much more than that to compare right? We know that weapons range/capability is not drastically in favor of the Su-30
(maybe weight-wise)

I mean.. what is the Su-30 better in then? Mileage?

and as for FOD.. Harlequin makes a good point..
I wonder if they will release the cam pod videos ever for that Mountain Home 1v1
naaaa.. I'm sure its deemed classified/comparmentalised and is under intense review from the likes of Charlotte Blackwood (Kelly McGillis in TopGun).

Originally posted by Daedalus3
2) F-15 (weapons loaded) dominated over clean Su-30s with both sides having having comparable flight hours.

"Comparable flight hours"? Red OPFOR pilots at Nellis usually have flight hours in the thousands. And they get more DAC air time than practically any other unit in the world. In this case they have flown against even Raptors and know how to handle TVC fighters. The video makes it a point to show that the Indian pilots were to eager for the post stall, they had not yet learned that would make them vulnerable.

The majority of F-15s are not AESA, but the APG-63 pulse doppler radar.

I say that they're just alittle bit better than us, is because when there pilots learn how to fly, they'll be abled to beat the F-16 and F-15, on a regular basis. Right now, they use TVC and just go into post stall.... so it's only a matter of time before they learn.

F-15s are getting AESA though.

ok..my bad on missing the opfor bit.
And yes.. the negative media exposure this has got is most unfortunate.. but thats the way the internet works.. public opinion is heard.. forcibly!
So I am actually glad this has come out and we all get to see what perceptions the other side has.. pilots, armchair generals et al

I WANT THE 1v1 ACMI POD FOOTAGE

Of much more interest is the conduct of the French AF. They sent thier Rafales to collect data on the IAF. According to AWST they would not participate in merges, but would rather fire off missiles and fly away

According to the article, they also did this in desert strom I

After looking at the video I can yell this guy is exagerating, and I don't take him seriously. the Americans always speak about Rus's weapons like the way he talks.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by 121200]

A lot of this was made up as he went along apparently.

For example:
There was no 1V1 or thrust vectoring used during Red Flag.
The Bison uses a Russian radar, not Israeli.
The IAF did have some Fratricide, due to no links, and issues with understanding the American GCI controllers, but the USAF had just as many, with everything running.
70% of the Indian pilots were young, but within two weeks they had adapted to new rules, a new location, and new procedures. This shows that they were very comfortable with their aircraft, and knew what they were doing.
The IAF showed a 90% mission rate, the USAF and others all showed lower than that. Their 8 SU-30s flew the equivalent of 4 months flight time in India over 75 days.
When operating at Mountain Home, they were flying at 30 second intervals, but had some minor engine damage, so they reverted to 60 second intervals. This was briefed from the start, and everyone knew about it.
When operating at Mountain Home the IAF had about a 21:1 kill ratio against USAF forces (unconfirmed) in favor of the SU-30.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
A lot of this was made up as he went along apparently.

didn't quite comprehend that! Care to rephrase/elaborate?

And as for kill ratios, I've learnt to take ANY figure with a pinch of salt. Like I said, truth's in the ACMI pods, and beyond that it tends to get 'shaped' into various versions from various sources depending on various biased points of view coming from years of very 'directed' training regimes.