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Signs in the Heavens, They Were Cast Down

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posted on Mar, 30 2004 @ 09:33 AM
Evidence of Intelligence and War in the Heavens
We know from Rev 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth" along with Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him".

The two time periods for these two events has been narrowed down; the second event, the casting down of the old serpent has been substantially narrowed down to a specific time frame. The first event, the one third thrown down has been plotted in a period of time using
the available evidence that has not completely deteriorated over time.

In the late 1800's astronomers were focusing their telescopes and attention to Mars. Astronomers such as: Rev. Pietro Angelo Secchi, (1818-78); Giovanni Virginio Schiaparelli, (1835-1910); Percival Lowell, (1855-1916); William Henry Pickering, (1858-1938); Andrew Ellicott Douglass, (1867-1962); Edward Emerson Barnard, (1857-1923); William Wallace Campbell, (1862-1938); William Huggins, (1824-1910); Camille Flammarion, (1842-1925); Eugène Michael Antoniadi, (1870-1944); Henri Perrotin, (1845-1904); to list just a few. What the astronomers of the late 1800's were discovering was canals on Mars, first called canali by Rev. Secchi in 1858 and Giovanni Schiaparelli in 1877. Many of these astronomers verified the canals and also noted seasonal changes on the surface that corresponded with the melting of the polar ice (see Mars Orbiter Laser Altimeter (MOLA) Science Investigation or The Encyclopedia of Astrobiology, Astronomy, and Spaceflight a simple encyclopedia with an alphabetic index or NASA's Astronomy Picture of the Day, Mars Then and Now.

In 1888 Perrotin described having observed dramatic changes in a feature, named "Libya" by Schiaparelli, and assumed to be a continental land mass. "Clearly visible two years ago, it no longer exists today," and "By 1892, Perrotin had switched his attention to watching for "bright projections" on Mars, reporting three in the summer of that year" according to the information from the The Encyclopedia of Astrobiology, Astronomy, and Spaceflight, in particular see the graphic drawing by Eugène Antoniadi of the Elysium region of Mars. In 1894 Percival Lowell noted a tawny colored cloud of dust that extended over 300 miles and Percival Lowell from his research estimated the temperature on the surface of Mars to be an average of 48°F noted from NASA MOLA Science. Percival Lowell's
temperature was later verified by the Russian Mars 3 lander. In 1971 the Mars 3 recorded temperature readings on the surface of Mars "the coldest point proved to be the north polar cap, where the temperature was -110°C (-166°F); elsewhere the values ranged
from -93° to 13°C (-135°-55°F),"

According to a Mars data web page, "Recent observations with the Hubble Space Telescope have revealed that the conditions during the Viking missions may not have been typical. Mars' atmosphere now seems to be both colder and dryer than measured by the Viking landers". The Space Telescope Science Institute (STSci) report, MARS: A Cooler, Clearer World, states the fact several times that the Mars surface temperature has changed since Viking landing missions, constantly dropping in temperature. Fact, the Viking 1 landed on Mars on July 20, 1976, continuous recording data until Nov. 11, 1982, over six years of recordings. An excellent web site for Mars information is the European Space Agency.

In 1888 drastic changes in surface features were observed, 1892 bright projections were observed, 1894 tawny dust cloud was observed and by 1909 no signs of the canals existed according to Antoniadi.

"In 1899 drastic changes in surface features were observed, 1892 bright projections were observed, 1894 tawny dust cloud was observed and by 1909 no signs of the canals existed according to Antoniadi.
"In 1899, the International Peace Conference was held in The Hague to elaborate instruments for settling crises peacefully, preventing wars and codifying rules of warfare. It adopted the Convention for the Pacific Settlement of International Disputes and established the Permanent
Court of Arbitration, which began work in 1902".

In 1908 was the Tunguska explosion, later investigations reveal radiation reading at ground zero, "the source of radioactivity is in the ground", G. Longo et. al, 2000.

The League of Nations was "established in 1919 under the Treaty of Versailles" and and "ceased its activities after failing to prevent the Second World War". Revelations 13:12 "the first beast, whose death-stroke was healed", (KJV).

In 1934 the Atomic Bomb was patented, September 1, 1939 Germany invaded Poland. January 1, 1942 the United Nations was formed and on June 26, 1945 the United Nations Charter was signed, then ratified on October 24, 1945. Revelations 13:13 "And he doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men." 1908 was the Tunguska explosion, August 6, 1945 the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, August 9, 1945 the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. Revelations 13:14 "And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived." Revelations 13:4 "and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?"

The National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICA) the first ever recorded sighting of an aerial unknown was by Kenneth Arnold, June 24, 1947. This does not include unknown airships depicted in art over the ages or unknown airships at the turn of the 1800's and early 1900's.

In 1954 National Geographic sponsored a Mars observation project at Lamount-Hussey Obervator, Bloemfontein, South Africa on Naval Hill an altitude of 4888 feet. From this National Geographic sponsored expedition 20,000 pictures were taken of Mars. The National
Geographic published the article September 1955, pages 427 to 436 written by Dr. E.C. Slipher. The picture in the National Geographic article reveals the areas mentioned as blue-green seasonal change. These observations were in September 1954, two years before the 1956 planet wide dust storm. An interesting fact, of all the observations of Mars over the years, even back to the late 1800's never was there mention of Valles Marineris (Valley of the Mariners). Valles Marineris
was never part of the canal renderings of the 1800's to early 1900's astronomers. Valles Marineris was not observed in 1954 in the project that resulted in observations of seasonal changes in 20,000 photographs.

According to a published article, NASA SP-441: VIKING ORBITER VIEWS OF MARS, M.H. Carr, W.A. Baum, K.R. Blasius, G.A. Briggs, J.A. Cutts, T.C. Duxbury, R. Greeley, J. Guest, H. Masursky, B.A. Smith, L.A. Soderblom, J. Veverka, J.B. Wellman :

-The canyons do not form a well integrated drainage system
-Indicate downward subsidence of canyon floors along faults
-Impact craters, which are so numerous on other Martian terrain's, are scarce within Valles Marineris
-No evidence of flow of water has been found within Valles Marineris, although some channels on the adjacent upland are abruptly truncated by steep canyon walls
-Because these canyons are poorly linked with one another, and their floors not a regularly graded slope, they could not have formed as water drainage features.

There was a planet wide dust storm on Mars in 1956, then again in 1971 and seen again in 2001. The Mariner 9 satellite waited until the cloud storm of 1971 had subsided somewhat to activate the camera. At that time Mariner 9 recorded the canyon Valles Marineris whereas the canyon had never been viewed as a canyon prior to Mariner 9. The canals had been viewed, surface changes had been viewed but never a massive canyon over 4000 km long from west to east near the Martian equator. Mariner 9's images reveal a barren planet, with no apparent seasonal changes except for the polar caps Mars resembled a devastated planet.

In summary, from 1858 to 1909 Mars had observable features that astronomers attributed to intelligence. After 1909 the surface of Mars showed drastic changes from the first observed tawny cloud of over 300 feet tall in 1894 to planet wide dust storm in 1956. In around 1947 was the first major records of UFO data, * UFO Database. The charted data reveals peak sightings in 1947, 1953, 1955, late 1957 and 1974. The largest amount of sightings being in the years 1947, 1953 and 1955. Anomaly, UFO and abduction web sites have proliferated the internet in resent years. Israel became an independent nation in 1948. So the throwing down of the old deceiving serpent can be narrowed down to the years between 1909 and 1971.

These entities thrown down by Michael are not from earth and lost the war in the heavens, making them the Losers. These entities could be called Extraterrestrial Biological Entities (EBE) or Extraterrestrial Intelligence (ETI) or Bad Extraterrestrial (BET).

posted on Mar, 30 2004 @ 10:32 AM
Very interesting that is. For verification, it is easy to see the evil of the last 50-100 years.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 04:11 AM
Beginning around 1999, there were a few things that had started to bother me about the popular Evangelical and futurist interpretation of Biblical prophecy. 2 Thessalonians ch. 2 forced me to question the idea of the pre-Tribulation rapture (particularly verse 3), and I also began to seriously consider the possibility that at least four or five of the seven seals had already been opened during the Twentieth Century (or possibly even prior to it in some cases). The whole idea of a future seven year tribulation in which all end-times biblical prophecy must find its fulfillment hinges on Daniel 9:27 (there is no seven year period mentioned in the New Testament at all in reference to the end), and I started to doubt whether this passage was being properly interpreted by the many pastors and bible scholars out there who constantly declare that the "covenant with many" is a peace treaty with the modern nation-state of Israel. Anyway, Yahweh God was definitely beginning to open my mind to some radically new interpretations of the prophecies which so many in positions of authority claim to have all figured out these days. It was in the first week of April 2002 that the revelations began to appear in rapid succession. I won't go into all of them here, but one of them is very relevant to the topic of this thread.

On the morning of Sunday, April 7th, as I was just awakening from slumber, and was still halfway between consciousness and unconsciousness, I heard a few words spoken in my mind:

"Satan has already been cast down".

At first I didn't know what to think about it. After years of hearing that Satan's being cast out of heaven to the earth is a future event, the idea confused me. In fact, my mind I was reeling, as I struggled to deal with a concept that was totally foreign to my former way of thinking. I had never actually even considered the idea until that very moment. I thought to myself that it was impossible, that the voice in my head had to be mistaken.

But then I remembered Tunguska. I had just read about the Tunguska Event in detail about three weeks prior to this revelation (on this website - The idea started to make sense to me. I realized it was possible. I began to become more and more sure of it as time went on. I realize that most people probably don't understand how I can even consider such a 'preposterous' notion, but perhaps are not aware of the significance of the Nephilim in scripture.

If we compare recent history to the pre-flood era, there are some very disturbing correlations. In Genesis ch. 6 and the Book of Enoch (rediscovered in Ethiopia in the 18th century) chs. 7-8, we find that the arrival of the Sons of God (bnei Elohim)/Nephilim (fallen ones, those cast down, translated as giants in the KJV) on the earth, and their having offspring with human women, is the the principal cause of the Adamic line descended from Seth becoming so corrupt, and thus it is the primary reason for the flood. Also worthy of note, the Book of Enoch relates that the fallen angels taught man new technologies, such as weapon-making, and certain sciences. The Twentieth Century certainly witnessed an incredible explosion of knowledge and advanced technology unprecedented in recorded history (at least that acknowledged by the mainstream).

Of course, as you might imagine, I've found very few people who are willing to consider this scenario as a possibility. But I believe it is a subject worthy of consideration and study by all of Yahweh's children who desire to know the truth.

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by Ischyros]

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:48 AM
This is starting to sound like an alien conspiracy rather than religious. But bible is always controvertial and given to human interpretations you can almost do anything you want with it.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 09:27 AM
Spirits and devils are alien to the human fleshly existance wouldn't you agree??

Well, maybe we are actually spirits temporarily residing in fleshly bodies.

It does seem odd the explosion of "knowledge" and the moreal breakdown of society in the last 50 years.

You corner an old-timer and they will confess that this is a totally different world that we live in today as compared to 50-60 years ago.

There has been an evil un-leashed in the world and there is a being/system that is enslaving people today. just look into a childs eyes while they are watching the 5th hour of their days allotment of television.

santa claus??

More like satans claws.

The spirit of anti-christ IS at work now.

The spirit of Jesus Christ IS alive and well right now.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:19 PM
ab2tw, I agree. It almost seems as if we've been time travelling, so quickly has the world advanced in the past few generations. Also the quickness and ease with which the sheople of the western world have been conditioned to call evil "good" and good "evil" is quite alarming.

marg6043, angels are extraterrestrials in the literal sense of the word. And alien really just means a person or object who is foreign or strange. In modern day terminology, an alien has come to mean someone or something from outside our world. Angels do fit this description. The conflict arises in most peoples minds because they have been conditioned to believe that angels are purely spiritualy beings who cannot manifest themselves physically.

However, if you do enough research, you will find that this view is not supported by the Bible. In fact, angel, which merely means messenger (Greek angelos, Hebew mal'ach ), is also applied to humans in the Bible. Whether an angel is an earthling or from somewhere beyond the boundaries of earthspace and time depends entirely on the context. Nowhere are angels ever mentioned as having wings in the Bible. Only Cherubim and Seraphim are describing as winged beings, and they are never even called angels! Anyway, my point is that angels of the LORD (Yahweh) in the Bible are nothing more and nothing less than messengers from beyond this world. Whether they are biological entities with advanced technology or supernatural/extradimensional entities is open to debate. It is possible that they are both. In any case, the Bible provides substantial evidence that these angelic beings can manifest themselves in human form.

Not everyone who looks human is human. This a disturbing truth that the modern Satanic world system is trying desperately (and succeeding) to hide from the eyes of mankind.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 10:19 PM
Well, I once actually saw an angel, and it seemed to be a purely spiritual being to me.

That said however, I am open to the biblical interpitation that many of the beings could be concidered alien. There is some evidence out there to support that. I don't have any links though, these were books I read many years ago. Books like Chariots of the Gods and such. I wouldnt lable the spirit world ETI either though myself personally because not once have they even remotely seems alien to me, in fact, in my own experience with mediumship, it was very natural feeling.

I can see how some could interpit aliens as fallen angels. The Bible does speak a lot about coming out of the heavens etc. These were things I thought about a long time ago. Not nearly in the detail a lot of people here have though, I must admit some of the theories are rather amazing.

I dunno what I can add to this. Just my own thoughts I guess. Spirits are not aliens, at least not to me.

posted on May, 27 2004 @ 10:42 PM
It doesn't matter whether a spirit feels strange or foreign or not. What matters is where it comes from. Ultimately we all derive from Yahweh, but not every being on Earth is actually native to this world. Besides, extradimensional beings are capable of hiding their true natures.

KJV 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Deception is one the main tools of Satan, so we must be very careful when interacting with beings of an otherwordly nature.

KJV John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Also, certain extradimensional beings may have the capability of becoming insubstantial and then physically materializing at will (or with Yahweh's permission).

Demons/evil unclean spirits can't do that because they are merely the souls of the giants (half angel-human hybrids), which is why they seek to possess human hosts. But if there are any other fallen angels lurking around like Satan (or who will soon be released from their prison for the final battle), they will likely be able to materialize in a humanoid or otherwise physical form.

posted on May, 27 2004 @ 11:50 PM
Angels are able to take on human form, as evidenced by Jacob's wrestling with an angel, and the two angels who came to help Lot get out of Sodom before it was destroyed. If demons are fallen angels, they too could take on human or humanoid form, unless that power was taken from them at the time of the fall.

It has been widely understood that the angels fell sometime before the creation of mankind, thus very likely that they have indeed walked among us in the past and probably still do.

The Bible states that we never know when we have entertained angels unawares. In light of this, I believe we should be very careful when we communicate or attempt to communicate with spirits.

posted on May, 28 2004 @ 02:15 AM
It is all about astrology! Different astrological doctrines. Mainly Judean, Israeli, Egyptian and Mesopotamian ones with the Babylonian being the most known. But also Vedic, Mayan, Catholic, Masonic and so on. But they all seem to have forgotten the Name of God. The Name of God is explained in detail if you read the writings of John in the NT. You can also read about it in Acts when Stephanos was stoned. According to tradition, there were 70 nations present in Eden. And they all had one heaven each. Jesjuah is the First and the Last of these nations, adding up the total number of arches and letters to 72. He ruled paradise as JHVH and he will Rule Heaven and Earth forevermore as Jeshuvah, when this horror which is coming has ended. It looks as if this year will be of a less pleasant kind, and will probably just be the beginning of a long period of tribulations and horror. May God bless you all and keep you safe from harm!

posted on May, 28 2004 @ 07:22 AM

Originally posted by junknewsie
Angels are able to take on human form, as evidenced by Jacob's wrestling with an angel, and the two angels who came to help Lot get out of Sodom before it was destroyed. If demons are fallen angels, they too could take on human or humanoid form, unless that power was taken from them at the time of the fall.

It has been widely understood that the angels fell sometime before the creation of mankind, thus very likely that they have indeed walked among us in the past and probably still do.

The Bible states that we never know when we have entertained angels unawares. In light of this, I believe we should be very careful when we communicate or attempt to communicate with spirits.

Yes, and Abraham also fed three angels in Genesi chapter 18.

By the way, I just heard something interesting tonight. Space, or at least parts of it, may actually be the Abyss and the Bottomless Pit.

Check out these websites if you want to discover more about the relationship between fallen angels and aliens.

posted on May, 28 2004 @ 07:51 AM
I dont think Satan has been casted out yet. I think he still makes trips to heaven. Heaven is 1st heaven (sky) 2nd heaven (space) 3rd heaven (possibly another dimension but where God himself sits). Satan is named as the prince of the power of the air..first heaven????

My reason for not thinking Satan has been cast out is because of the intense imidate follow on from that here on earth. Sure things have gotten worse in last 80/100 yrs but not to the degree that I would expect.

posted on May, 28 2004 @ 01:31 PM
To be honest, I'm not quite as convinced that Satan has already been cast down as I was two years ago (whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not certain at the moment). However, I do believe that everyone should take the time to study the Tunguska Event in detail and compare it with the relevant passages concerning Satan's fall (Revelation 12, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, and Luke 10:18.). Pray about it, fast if you feel led to, and seek Yahweh's truth on this matter. Don't just take my word for it, but don't just dismiss it out of hand either. After all, terrible evils have been committed in the earth in the recent past (the Twentieth Century is largely held to be the bloodiest in history), and horrific conditions do currently exist here and there throughout the world. Just because the pale horse hasn't come to places like America yet, doesn't mean it isn't on its way.

Now I believe generally that the sky is the first heaven (air, sky, and heaven in Hebrew is the same word shamayim for all) outside the earth is the second heaven, and beyond that is the third heaven (the domain of Yahweh and his angels which most likely exists outside the boundaries of space and time in a multiplicity of extra dimensions).

However, the second heaven is not necessarily a pure place according to the Bible. All or some part of Space my in fact be the Abyss. And let me make clear that by the Abyss and the Bottomless pit is not Sheol/Hades/Hell. The Bible is clear that Sheol is located inside the Earth (Matthew 12:40). But let us examine a few other pertinent verses:

King James Version Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones [ha (the)-marom] that are on high [marom], and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

(Strong's Concordance Refernece #) 4791 מרום marom, n.m. heights, (place on high, being in an elevated position; by extension: pride, haughtiness, arrogance, an improperly high opinion of oneself; exultation, high in honor and status

KJV Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [epouranios].

2021 επουρανιος, epouranios, a. heavenly, celestial; heavenly realms

So, clearly, there are evil beings dwelling in heavenly/celestial realms which are not places of holiness.

KJV Matthew 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer [exoteros] darkness [skotos]: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

KJV Matthew 25:29-30
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer [exoteros] darkness [skotos]: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1857 εξοτερος, exoteros, a. outside, farthest out (as a superlative)

4655 σκοτος skotos, n. darkness, the dark

Outer darkness (exoteros skotos) sounds a lot like Space to me.

As for the Abyss/Bottomless Pit, most of the New Testament references to it are in Revelation:

KJV Revelation 9:1-2
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless [abyssos] pit [phrear].
2 And he opened the bottomless [abyssos] pit [phrear]; and there arose a smoke out of the pit [phrear], as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit [phrear].

KJV Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit [abyssos], whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

KJV Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyssos] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

KJV Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit [abyssos], and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

KJV Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit [abyssos] and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit [abyssos], and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

12 αβυσσος, abyssos, n. Abyss, the deep place, the underworld, the abode of the dead and demons

5421 φρεαρ, phrear, n. well , shaft, Abyss

But there are two more that are sort of hidden:

KJV Luke 8:29-31
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep [abyssos].

KJV Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep [abyssos]? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

The traditional view is that the Abyss is a deep pit going toward the center of the earth. But it might also be intergalactic space, or perhaps even a black hole, like maybe even the black hole which is theorized to be at the center of our Milky Way galaxy. Anyone ever seen the flim Even Horizon

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Ischyros]

posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:43 AM

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
Heaven is 1st heaven (sky) 2nd heaven (space) 3rd heaven (possibly another dimension but where God himself sits). Satan is named as the prince of the power of the air..first heaven????

Hehe. This is just amusing. Who on Earth teach these things? There are basically seven Heavens. In each Heaven is a set of angels and souls which are constellations and stars. Each Heaven has it's Word, and the Word is the same for all Heavens. At the throne of the Heaven of Heavens sits the Father. By his right hand stands the the Son. That is the mystery explained. It makes a time code in prophecy. Making it more accurate.

posted on May, 31 2004 @ 04:57 AM
I'm aware that some people believe, such as kabalists, that there are seven heavens. I've also read about it in the Ascension of Isaiah (from the Jewish Pseudieprigrapha - 3 Baruch mentions only five heavens by the way). However, there is no evidence from the Old Testament/Tanakh to support this belief. Neither Yahweh or Yahshua or ever refer to this concept in any clearly inspired book that I know of.

Also, the New Testament does clearly refer to the third heaven:

KJV 2 Corinthians 12:1-5
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

It's interesting that Paul allows for the possiblity that a man could be caught up to the third heaven or paradise "in the body". What that signifies, I cannot say for certain, but it is intriguing nonetheless.

As of this moment, I have evidence for three heavens. They are the sky (shamayim being the Hebrew word for sky, air, and heaven), space, and the extradimenisonal/supernatural realm. That's all I know of in my own personal experience, so that is all I can accept for now unless Yahweh shows me differently.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Ischyros]

posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 07:03 AM
"Members of a special expedition researching the site of the famous Tunguska meteorite fall have claimed they had discovered parts of an extraterrestrial device.

The expedition, organized by the Siberian Public State Foundation “Tunguska Space Phenomenon” completed its work on the scene of Tunguska meteorite fall on August 9. It was the first expedition to the region since 2000. Guided by the space photos, the researchers scanned a wider territory in the vicinity of the Poligusa village for parts of the space object that crashed into Earth in 1908 and was later called the Tunguska meteorite.

The scientists claim that they found remains of an extraterrestrial technical device that allegedly had an accident in Siberia in 1908. They also say that they found the so called “deer stone” - an artifact repeatedly mentioned in the reports of the eyewitnesses of the Tunguska phenomenon. A part of the “deer stone” has been delivered to Krasnoyarsk for research.

The head of the expedition Yuri Lavbin told MosNews on Tuesday that the researchers had traced the possible trajectory of the space object, but this time they counted that it ran from West to East, unlike the members previous missions who thought that the object had flown East to West. The new approach allowed the expedition members to find a buried object covered with trees.

The object appeared to be a large block made with metal. The researchers chipped a piece of the object and will now test its composition."

More at

Other articles with similar information:

By the way, the Secrets of Enoch does speak of the existence of ten levels of heaven. However, this does not disprove the theory that the second heaven is space, especially considering that the text of Chapter 7 says:

1And those men took me and led me up on to the second heaven, and showed me darkness, greater than earthly darkness, and there I saw prisoners hanging, watched, awaiting the great and boundless judgment, and these angels were dark-looking, more than earthly darkness, and incessantly making weeping through all hours.

2And I said to the men who were with me: Wherefore are these incessantly tortured? They answered me: These are God’s apostates, who obeyed not God’s commands, but took counsel with their own will, and turned away with their prince, who also is fastened on the fifth heaven.

3And I felt great pity for them, and they saluted me, and said to me: Man of God, pray for us to the Lord; and I answered to them: Who am I, a mortal man, that I should pray for angels? Who knows whither I go, or what will befall me? Or who will pray for me?


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