It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Anyone feel good about this? What does this mean for us?

page: 5
3
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:01 PM
link   
reply to post by lordtyp0
 


The relevance of the last paragraph is part of the reason why the republicans got a bad wrap and why somebody like Obama was voted into office. He pretty much thinks capitalism sucks and we need to give up what we earn to help our neighbors. What people dont seem to understand is that poor people in this country live 10 times better than they do in 98% than the rest of the world.

So I got where it came from wrong, but that is what the whole constitution is built around. Also in the Deceleration of Independence does it also not say "We The People"?




posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by lordtyp0
 


The relevance of the last paragraph is part of the reason why the republicans got a bad wrap and why somebody like Obama was voted into office. He pretty much thinks capitalism sucks and we need to give up what we earn to help our neighbors. What people dont seem to understand is that poor people in this country live 10 times better than they do in 98% than the rest of the world.

So I got where it came from wrong, but that is what the whole constitution is built around. Also in the Deceleration of Independence does it also not say "We The People"?



Sure they live 98% better,, well maybe.
Theres a lady near my work, about 60 years old, skinner, always covered in bruises and ciggarette burns. Im sure thats better than someone in Darfur who just endured gang rape.

I disagree on the bad wrap thing. I would say they got a bad wrap for being inherantly corrupt. You claim Obama doesn't like "capitalism".

Capitalism means you get money from your property. You (probably) and I arn't capitalists. We probably just get paychecks. So I am not sure why you are gung ho on that front. BUT, Obama is not anti-capitalism. Nothing he has said indicates he is. I would dare say he is more free market than any republican since all the Cons are invested in the companies that stumbled/got bailed out.

Anyway, pay attention over the next few months, I think you will be convinced by time.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by lordtyp0
First: The 10th amendment has nothing to do with anything here:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." (means the states get to set their own laws as long as it doesn't overwrite laws in place. Doesn't mean the Gov has any obligation. What little argument you can present with the 10th amendment could also be extended to drug laws.)


We're interpreting things differently here which isn't a surprise since constitutional lawyers have argued this exact same issue. It says right in your quote that any powers not delegated by the Constitution are reserved to the states or the people. Show me where it says in the Constitution that the United States can take my car or gas. If you can't find it, then it's delegated to the state or the people.


Originally posted by lordtyp0
As for raising gas taxes... Where is your outrage over the ciggarette taxes? Or how about the whole subsidized fuel? (part of our taxes go into buying bulk gas to reduce cost at the pump already).


You want some outrage over cigarette prices? I'm a smoker so I'd be happy to comply.


Originally posted by lordtyp0
The way to curtail bad habits is to make it less desirable to do it. In this case there is ample reason to believe we are destroying the world due to global warming. At least there is enough evidence to say we should do SOMETHING. If that means someone needs to spend a dollar a gallon more on that Escalade to fill the tank.. I have no pity.


You're not going to realize just how dangerous your comments in this last quote are until something you love gets taken away. This will clarify it for you I'm sure. The fact that somebody is going to have the power to define what is a "bad habit" for another person is frightening.

Pssst...in case you haven't heard...the scientists are now saying we're entering a mini ice age. Just FYI.


Originally posted by lordtyp0
One thing forgotten here is the economic concept of "someone elses problem". We have taxes because the potholes wont repair themselves and nobody would volunteer the money to repair them. Nor pay for public education etc.


This isn't even close to a valid argument. I don't think anybody would argue that SOME tax is necessary but the amount of tax we're assessed now is ridiculous. By the time the government gets their hands out of my pocket, I'm lucky if I get to spend 50% of what I make. I think you know as well as I do that a majority of that tax money doesn't benefit you and I at all. Most of that money makes rich politicians richer and/or is passed back to campaign supporters through earmarks. The rest is shipped overseas or used to open a funny hat museum in Wichita, KS thanks to, once again, earmarks.


Originally posted by lordtyp0
To trivialize the constitution by claiming it somehow promises cheap fuel is reprehensible.


I never said it promised cheap fuel, please don't put words into my mouth. For the record, I think it is "reprehensible" that the government would overtax anything as a roundabout way to legally ban a product. That's a direct assault on freedom if anything is.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:10 PM
link   
reply to post by cosmiccat
 




the answer is PEACE,COOPERATION UNDERSTANDING, EMPOWERMENT,LISTENING,& CHANGE


Just like we talked with Saddam before the first gulf war right? Just like Europe talked to Nazi Germany before Hitler decided he wanted to take over the world right?

Change what? I don't get it I've heard Hope and change for the past year and the only answer I keep getting is one that I don't like, which your going to have to give up some of your pie so somebody else can get a piece.

And they only way somebody is going to give up their piece is if the government takes it. That worked out real well for Cuba didn't it.

The problem is I'm getting told by people that now Obama is president-elect, he is going to walk into office and cure the world of all its woes.

I live in reality and not your dream world.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:18 PM
link   
reply to post by OhZone
 





And, for the umpteenth time.....The US is not supposed to be a democracy. We are supposed to be a Constituional Republic built on the phiosophy of individualism.


Thanks for correcting this OhZone, our voting system is democratic, but we as a country are a republic!



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:21 PM
link   
reply to post by lordtyp0
 


I'll be paying attention. And how is somebody getting gang raped in Darfur, worse than somebody getting gang raped here in America. It happens here too.

Reality is that violence happens everyday all around the world and every country on earth is plagued by it.

That is why is I don't feel good about Obama getting elected, because he has promised the world and there is no way he is going to be able to do even 5% of what he has promised. There is also nothing in his past to lead me to believe that he can do it either.

I'm living in reality, He is against capitalism, in one of his speeches he said he said we are in this problem because of "crony capitalism." He wants to "spread the wealth" and I can go on. but there are plenty of threads already dedicated to that subject. Your going to disagree with me on this and that is fine, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree because I'm not going to debate you on that part of it.

This is my idea how to inspire people around the world. How bout quit giving government handouts and get the government out of our lives so people can see that they can do it on their own.

The government giving a helping hand isn't inspiring anybody.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by lordtyp0
I disagree on the bad wrap thing. I would say they got a bad wrap for being inherantly corrupt. You claim Obama doesn't like "capitalism".


I think you and I could literally argue for hours, LOL. The politicians in both parties are corrupt. The fact that you think one side is inherently corrupt and the other isn't shows that the media has gotten to you. There are plenty of reports of corrupt democrats but unfortunately you'll find those on page 21 while the republican who screwed up is on the front page. I'm really curious to see if the media that I think has been slanted left for the past several years is going to swing back right now that the left is in power. After all, they need scandal or they get no ratings.


Originally posted by lordtyp0
Anyway, pay attention over the next few months, I think you will be convinced by time.


Honestly, I hope you're right. I'll look for you around march-april. If we see centrist Obama for the first few months of his Presidency...I'll acknowledge that you were right.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by lordtyp0
To start with, he doesn't want to "Spread the wealth" in anything similar to a socialist/communist sense.

Sorry, but that is exactly what he wants to do.


Taxes are specifically allowed for in the Constitution to fund a minimal government. Taxes are meant to fund a service like the military.

Taxes are NOT meant to be taken from some people in order to give it to others. That is the definition of socialism.


In the US for decades the upper percentage has been getting massive tax cuts.

Umm....that because the upper percentage pays the most in taxes. So of course they should get the most in tax cuts. DUH!

Where do you draw the line?
The top 50% of all income earners pay 97% of all income taxes!!
I mean, damn, enough already.


Most have so many loopholes they dont have to pay anything in taxes.

This is such nonsense.
If true, the government would have no money for anything since the 'rich' are the one's being taxed. Again, the top 50% pay 97% of all the income taxes.


What Obama wants to do is cut the tax the middle class pays (been getting the short end for my entire life) and increase the taxes on those who make a quarter million a year. You know, the people who can afford to get out of paying taxes with lawyers.

Your lack of understanding of even the basics regarding the economy is astounding.
Sorry, but the middle class will never get ahead with Obama's plan.
For starters, this 250,000 limit is ficticious since Obama himself voted to raise taxes on people making more than 42,000 just last year.

Secondly, Obama also stated he will be raising social security taxes and fica taxes. Since he will also let Bush's tax cuts expire, you will get another tax increase since Bush's tax cuts affected everyone.

Bottom line: Your paycheck will be getting smaller anyway you slice it. Since Obama stated with his plan that energy prices will skyrocket, you will be paying a lot more for everything you purchase and for energy.

Since the top 50% of income earners pay 97% of the income taxes, how much more do you want to tax them? Do you want to take all their money?


How is this somehow bad?

Read everything I posted above.


Is my hard work not warrent me having a bigger chunk of my pay?

That is the point. You will NOT get a bigger chunk under Obama.
Let's list the reason why:
A) Higher social security taxes
B) Higher fica taxes
C) Expiration of the Bush tax cuts which affects everyone
D) Yes, higher income taxes. This middle class tax cut business is BS.
E) Since Obama said that energy prices will go through the roof with his plan, expect to pay a lot more for electricity and everything you buy.

With Socialism, yes, everyone is equal. Everyone is equally poor and miserable.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueTriangle Can you please explain to me how I have a choice to not follow his policies? His policies are going to be forced on all of us whether I like it or not. Regarding the rest of your tirade, I knew my guy was going to lose from day one because third party has ZERO shot in the current political climate.

As I said in my earlier post, I am holding judgement until he actually gets into office. I am very concerned though. There are two different Obamas here and I'm really not sure which one is going to be President. We have pre-presidential race Obama who was very far left, very partisan, and has the record to back it up. Then, we have the Obama that was presented to us during the race who is actually pretty centrist. Occasionally, little off the record quips would slip out (like the Joe the Plumber drama) that sounded like the old Obama. If we get the centrist version, I think he may actually change the country for the better. If we get leftist Obama...god help us.


I voted Ron Paul and sure, I am disappointed that the man *I* deemed fit to run this country was not deemed fit by fellow citizens.

I don't take issue with your view of it as it is very similar to my view of the results.. disappointment sure, but willing to give this man a chance.

If he goes against a value that is deeply embedded in my belief system, then I am free not to comply regardless of what you call force (which I personally refer to as bullying and I am not one to let go of something that means a lot of me just because someone tries to intimidate me with threats). I view myself as always being free by choosing how to respond to my circumstances.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:37 PM
link   
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 





The kind of people he attracts such as, Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Wright, Khailid, the communist party of the USA, the socialist party of the USA, Tony Rezko, The endorsment of Hamas, Hugo Chavez, Castro, Kim Jong IL. Those kind of people? Or how about his past record for example spent 160 million dollars to improve the schools and nothing got improved. Or lets take a look at his past record and see how that matches up with his rhetoric. There is absolutely no proof that he is going to do what the people ask him to do. In fact I remember he said he was going to vote against and filibuster the FISA bill he voted yes without so much a peep, then went and called the people that are mad at him for it "egotistical." Or how bout the recent bailout bill which over 80% of us didn't agree with. And, yes it can get a lot worse a whole lot worse. That is fine those people voted for him and they got what they wanted. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him well, but I don't expect for him to even do 5% of what he has promised all those people. Let's not even get started on Iraq. There is so much going on over there unless you are there and see it for yourself there is no way to get a straight answer. And if the politicians would have stayed out of


very nice post Hastobemoretolife, it amazes me that everyone just over looks this as though it doesn't exist, this mans views have not changed and I believe him when he says he wants change, the greatest fear is what he wants to change............................



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:42 PM
link   
reply to post by lordtyp0
 






Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife reply to post by lordtyp0 The relevance of the last paragraph is part of the reason why the republicans got a bad wrap and why somebody like Obama was voted into office. He pretty much thinks capitalism sucks and we need to give up what we earn to help our neighbors. What people dont seem to understand is that poor people in this country live 10 times better than they do in 98% than the rest of the world. So I got where it came from wrong, but that is what the whole constitution is built around. Also in the Deceleration of Independence does it also not say "We The People"?





Sure they live 98% better,, well maybe. Theres a lady near my work, about 60 years old, skinner, always covered in bruises and ciggarette burns. Im sure thats better than someone in Darfur who just endured gang rape.



Well Lordy Lordy, You believe in distributing others wealth...Do the Obama way and give her half of your wealth...


[edit on 5-11-2008 by rikk7111]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:56 PM
link   
reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


Wow, wall of text

I will try and reply later, but wanted to say: I never said they were taking away your car or gas either.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:36 PM
link   
reply to post by lordtyp0
 

What does this mean for us?

What this means is that everyone in the country should bend over and grease up good for a solid two-year rooting!

All Obama's supporters are in for a real disappointment, but it will take a good two years of stagnation and desperation before any changes can begin to be made.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

This is my idea how to inspire people around the world. How bout quit giving government handouts and get the government out of our lives so people can see that they can do it on their own.

The government giving a helping hand isn't inspiring anybody.


Thank you for being a good American. this is, by far, the most intellectual statement i have ever read on this great website.

the more you ask uncle sam for, the more he will take from you....



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:27 AM
link   
I personally am thrilled to have a black president. I believe he has the potential to be the best president in history. ;Perhaps, we are headed in a most positive and uplifting direction that this country has so desperately not seen and yet needed in a very long time;. Anyone with a brain can seriously see that this country was in need of something else, such as a more confident sophisticated and intellectual individual such as Obama. I think,This can really be a big opportunity for many folks to turn things around in their lives if they allow it to.I really think that a lot of good will come out of this decision both for people and for the economy.

One thing we must remember is that People are people. I think we should pull together and not let the color of our skin effect our outlook on what a black president is or isn't capable of. On the same note we should not let the media or Mr. Obama say that mine or anyone Else's ethnicity is the same because, outwardly we are all different duh, but inwardly we as humans are alot the same in nature. By that i only mean the majority of us just want peace prosperity etc..Our last presidency seemed it was on a mission to get control or to pratically doing everything short of enslaving our nation. it has always been a plan of the illuminatti i think. My opinion is, The world is fine the way it is. blacks are blacks Hispanics are Hispanics whites are whites etc etc.see the issue i have here is that America is America and in here we have our own issues to address. America is a nation founded upon the principles of hard working men and women trying to live their lives and raise a family and live their lives in peace. If we truly trust in that faith then we should do our best to keep obama as president and give him the chance he deserves.So basically I am just hoping that Mr. Obama undo what Mr. Bush has done, then let the people make their own mistakes and allow God to work through people in order to mend what has been broken and restore the american dream.

If the last presidency has taught me anything it is the fact that a bad president to me can come in any color of the rainbow. I think This can really be a big opportunity for many folks to turn things around and perhaps a second chance for many to get job's and things in places they couldn't before ,maybe it could be a chance to really give the average person a better quality of life,since most of us don't have millions of dollars in our pockets i assume.

i also believe it is important to be made aware of the prejudices, racism, and ignorance that can be used against people to create a false sense of hatred especially in this day and age and with all the different outlets, i believe perhaps to me it is not about our past or present ,apparently it's not even about the color of our skin, but it is more about what we can do as a nation which is overcoming these hurdles for perhaps a better future.

congratulations, to Mr. Obama. hopefully he can clear up the mess we're in and make the country we're in a better place to live.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by spiffymon]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 12:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by spiffymon
I personally am thrilled to have a black president.


stop being racist, haha, jk. I have noticed the race card being thrown around alot, but i have to agree with you that RACE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

it is sound advise to test the water before you go cliff diving.

right now, i do not like obama for these reasons five:

1: zip ZERO experience
2: jokes made at the expense of the person inquiring
3: NLP and his obvious agenda with corporate America
4: his total lack of respect of past participles of patriots who worked their butts off for the freedoms we have today
5: socialist, communistic red tape. (anyone can be anything in America, you just have to want it enough)

come January, i will support him. as commander in chief as selected by my "peers" I have no other choice.

i just hope anyone who voted is also well read upon the Book of Revelation, because you will vote again in the year 2012.....................



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 01:11 AM
link   
It has happened and he is elected to be the next president. I want to be able to say that I hope he does well for America, but I honestly don't see how he can. I am willing to ignore the lack of experience. I think the man is blessed with enough luck to offset the inexperience. The thing that keeps me from having any optimism, is if he does everything he says he wants to, and enacts executive orders along the lines that he voted in the past, I see nothing good coming from it.

While I do think that electing a black president is historic, it really seems to me that it is his strictly his race and the peoples disappointment with the last 8 years that got him elected.

I think it would have served America and history better if it were a more competent, constitutional, less global oriented black candidate as a first, then B.O.

I would like someone to help pursued me to feel better about his upcoming administration. The only thing I feel good about now is that the 21 month campaigning process has come to (a temporary) end.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Wolf321]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:26 AM
link   
reply to post by Wolf321
 


i disagree that he got elected just because he is black. he had the best plan, he had the best campaign by far. he inspired way more voters by fay with his eloquence, charisma and confidence. he won it because he was the best candidate period. he was not my first choice, but you know what i believe he has the stamina, will power and common sense to get the ball rolling again!!

even without the experience i feel he was the most intelligent and best man for the job.

also the way people around the globe are reacting to his election is awesome. and hopefully this will translate to better diplomtic relations with the rest of the worls as well as our foreign policy.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Some of Joe America woke up and voted Obama. Now you too should "wake up". What do you think has been happening to the economy for the last 12 months, probably even earlier except big money kept it under wrap? The economy was tanking well before Obama was a serious candidate. As for your (our) losing something under Obama, just think about some simple facts - America is just 4% of the world population, but we use 25% of the world's resources! But just in case you are scratching your head wondering why Joe America is having a hard time with such an seemingly overshare of the global bling, the capper is that just 5% of Americans own or control 80% of America's assets and wealth! i And Joe America is just not one of the top 5%.

But ole Joe America always picks up the tab for supporting the 5% because Joe America is so gullible, just that simple. Come on, this is what Woody Guthrie sang about all those years ago and things still haven't improved. Actually life for ole Joe has gotten worse because the unions have been pretty much busted, pensions robbed, jobs overseas to cheap labor countries where workers are real slaves or treated lke slaves...so that 5% keep getting richer. Get it!

McCain belongs (by marriage) to that top tier 5% which is why his campaign was all about preserving capital gains, etc....all stuff that benefits only the rich. Joe America (America's 95%, the Obama target group who will beneift from Obama) can never hope to get above $250,000 "NET" income. And even for the lucky few of Joe America who make it above $250k, remember it is NET and there are a lot of nice legal goodies that can be written off under business/corporate/family trust expenses, so that $250 Net is supremely tasty icing on the cake. Bottom line, old Joe America bought the Republican economic hype (crumbs off the rich folks table) hook, line and sinker. No one to blame but your own gullibility, Joe, and now you want to bite the hand that wants to give you a seat at the table instead of eating off the floor. But some of you (us), like a whipped dog, want to bite that hand. Joe, this is a rage about the unfairness of the Republican, neoconservative, trickle down, Ann Rand, BS that has grown into a religion but has fallen down like the empty house of cards that it always was. Come on, there are some Wall Streeters who make an honest buck, but if you've been reading the newspapers for the last 5 months, there are many more sharks who have been bilking the consumer and national bank systems for the last 8 years because the Republican admin removed regulations that would have controlled all that greed and cheating. And, Joe, the bill for all that comes right back to you because if you don't pay, they certainly won't...but they could afford it like maybe having 12 homes instead of 13. Joe, it seems you want to keep on being the whipping post. Do you like it, or is it something you are used to but are afraid to get out from under, like horses who run back into a burning barn.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by havanaja]


[edit on 6-11-2008 by havanaja]

[edit on 6-11-2008 by havanaja]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 11:33 AM
link   
I see this as a slow motion car crash. We started to skid off the road with the republican deregulation of banking and industry. So we overcorrect to get back on the road, by electing someone that appears, and has the voting record to prove, to be far left and wanting to take away from those more fortunate. What we end up doing is hitting a tree while avoiding the ditch. What we may see is hyperinflation and a great reduction in personal freedom as well as the bankrupting of the small business and chasing away the larger corporations.
Yes I will give him a chance, he deserves that, but at the same time I will prepare for what may be necessary to continue our country as it was intended.

respectfully

reluctantpawn




top topics



 
3
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join