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posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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Am I the only person that has posted in this thread that has read The Wealth of Nations?

It is a fundamental fact of government that some socialistic periods or programs are not only beneficial, but required, for the long-term growth and success of a capitalistic society.

Calling doom and gloom because the pendulum swings in the opposite direction is myopic at least and utterly ignorant at most.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by cogburn]




posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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People should not criticize him more than any other Democrats simply because he is black. There were many more radical Democrats promising even more change back in the old days. And you know what? There wasn't nearly as much criticism of them as on Obama.

Obama won, deal with it. Unless you want to assassinate him and put another Republican on there who will go raid Iran and weaken the U.S. even more.

Distribution of wealth is the only way to maintain stability and prevent a future catastrophe. If the poor, jobless, lazy bugs out there are not being fed well enough they will rebel. Why can't people learn this simple fact that has been repeated thousands of times over the past? Are people really that dumb?
I agree with the last poster.

Maybe a good solution is to alternate between democrat and republican every 1 or 2 terms.

[edit on 11/5/2008 by die_another_day]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Wotan
 


Originally posted by Wotan
"Maybe at long last, Obama will actually bring America into the club of civilised nations, where it actually cares for its populace."

And Europeans accuse Americans of being arrogant.. Thank you for your optomistic view of President elect. Obamas ability to "civilize" us poor Barbarians..
I think I shall prefer to stay "uncivilised" thank you...



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
[mo


On the other hand, the "Bill of Rights" is not so hard to understand either.


We will be watching.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by gizmohd
November 4th 2008 marks the dawn of a new day. Gone will be the days where hard work actually means something in order to prosper in the world. Gone are the days where family matters. Welcome to the economic enslavement of the entire nation. No longer will you benefit from succeeding in business or work. No longer will you need to worry about paying for your electric bills or gas bills.

Yes, when will this all start I will mark my calander. Jan 20th is not soon enough.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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Well id first off like to thank everyone who helped elect Obama.
Thanks for getting out and voting.

Ok,I find it ammusing that some people seem to think they no the future.
They are so certain that Obama is going to be bad,and the country is going to fall apart,or the world is going to end.

How about this,give the guy a chance.
He has yet to do anything to harm this country.
I'll support him till he gives me just cause not to.

To already have a negative opinion of him is ignorant to say the least.
Theres a chance he is going to help America recover from 8 years of Bush's policies and mess ups.

And its no longer "Yes We Can",its now "Yes,We Did!"



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day


Distribution of wealth is the only way to maintain stability and prevent a future catastrophe. If the poor, jobless, lazy bugs out there are not being fed well enough they will rebel. Why can't people learn this simple fact that has been repeated thousands of times over the past? Are people really that dumb?


[edit on 11/5/2008 by die_another_day]


When my children want something, they earn it. I don't give it to them just to keep them quiet and complacent. A nanny does that.

Welcome to the nanny state.

(edited spelling)

[edit on 5-11-2008 by hotrodturbo7]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by cogburn
Am I the only person that has posted in this thread that has read The Wealth of Nations?

It is a fundamental fact of government that some socialistic periods or programs are not only beneficial, but required, for the long-term growth and success of a capitalistic society.

Calling doom and gloom because the pendulum swings in the opposite direction is myopic at least and utterly ignorant at most.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by cogburn]


Very well said.

We've had an era of ultra-capitalism where the free market had supreme reign, and it's failed miserably, ending in socialized corporate welfare.

Yet people still ended up losing their homes, health cover and so forth.

The world at the moment is choosing social democracy - not communism, not socialism, but aspects of both capitalism and wealth distribution.

No one is disputing hard work is the best way to succeed, and some of Obama's economic policies are even right of the British-right parties.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by mattguy404
The world at the moment is choosing social democracy - not communism, not socialism, but aspects of both capitalism and wealth distribution.

No one is disputing hard work is the best way to succeed, and some of Obama's economic policies are even right of the British-right parties.


How right you are.

Altruism.

Peace



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by hotrodturbo7

Originally posted by die_another_day


Distribution of wealth is the only way to maintain stability and prevent a future catastrophe. If the poor, jobless, lazy bugs out there are not being fed well enough they will rebel. Why can't people learn this simple fact that has been repeated thousands of times over the past? Are people really that dumb?


[edit on 11/5/2008 by die_another_day]


When my children want sonething, they earn it. I don't give it to them just to keep them quiet and complacent. A nanny does that.

Welcome to the nanny state.


I grew up the son of a single mother, in social housing, with no income beyond government support.

But I was able to put myself through university thanks to the education welfare that was available to me.

Which is paid back in my taxes.

Free choice is inherent in both paths - I could have chosen to bum out, even though the government would be there to help, but I chose to make something of myself.

Trust me, the class divide is much easier to climb out of given the ample opportunities that only those from wealthier families would otherwise have.

Welcome to progress.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by bigvig316
reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 

My question to you is, why do you want your government to take almost half your money, and control you life and run things for you. Don't you want the freedom to do what you want with your money. To choose the kind of support you want and get more of your money back to invest it to make work of you. Socialism is the next step to communism. Be careful of your any government that wants to put their hands in every aspect of your life..


As you explained so well, it's a fundamental differing of core ideals and expectations we hold our respective societies to. Some Americans may never reconcile their past views of what their government's role in their lives should constitute versus what it's evolving into; it may take a generation.

I understand and I've heard the "individual liberty" argument thoroughly; you believe you should be in charge of the services your dollar buys and the government should concern itself only with maintenance issues like keeping it's citizen's safe and upholding laws.

The Canadian view, which I hold, is substantially different in many respects but to say it's somehow detrimental to the individual isn't the case and is quite the contrary.

I give nearly half my earnings to the government not because I'm a generous guy who believes Parliament could use a hand; but because raising the overall standard of living for everyone, equally, in turn offers me a better country in which to live.

It's a misconception that only the most poor benefit. All the social programs we offer, to everyone, serves to create new opportunities that would otherwise have never existed.

If you're not struggling to keep a roof over your head or receive expensive medical treatment; you can give your time to going back to college, which the government will help pay for, getting a better job and thereby contributing more back in taxes. Maybe that person, with his new education, starts a business and gives me a job.

Recently there's been talk of socializing our pharmacare as well so that we also receive our prescriptions on the government's tab. It'll probably happen a few years down the road, Canadians are generally supportive when it comes to health care for all. A tax increase is likely, spread among everyone.
If I end up paying a few extra bucks, so people paying half their income on medication get a fair shot at life and success, I wouldn't object. Again, maybe one of those people will give me a job or give back in some other way.

Canada paid for at least half of my university tuition and by paying higher taxes it gives others that same benefit. Sometimes 50% is more than enough to discourage people from enrolling, settling for a high school diploma. Everyone benefits from an educated population.

Erm.. communism isn't applicable in any sense at all. This comes back to what I first said about American misconceptions of democratic socialism.
To say communism is one step away implies that you believe capitalism, democracy and national governance as a whole are trivial aspects of our respective systems. I don't think you believe that.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 


Please list some examples. I LIVE in America, and I have failed to notice these policies that you speak of, even with the MSM pushing Obama like the second coming.

Then again, maybe it's just relative to the "far right" of Britain.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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I Agree with Karl 100%... this country that has given me everything I now have, a country that I call my nation and believe it to be my home (I was not born here) is in the hands of a person that i do not turst, not only that but my husband is in the Marine corp our LIVES BELONG to this man that we do NOT trust... and honest to GOD I HOPE that I am WRONG.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Black_Fox
 


Well, I guess we have no other choice than to give him a chance. What is done is done but that does not change how I feel about the man.
'Just Words, Just Speeches" as he said about Macain

He has to earn my trust.

I Have not forgotten what the terrorists said. They said they would get us "within" and their flag would be flying at the White House.
They also said that they would turn the White House Black!

Some people have a short memory.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by MagicaRose]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
To borrow a phrase from the conservative talking points manual....

"America, Love it or Leave it"

God Bless America

The people have spoken!! What is it about a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC that you don't understand?

[edit on 4-11-2008 by whaaa]


To borrow a phrase previously posted all too often by liberals here on ATS ...

"He (obama this time) is not my president"


Not defending Bush.

All presidents worry about what their "legacy" will be. Let me be one of the first to say that Bush's legacy will be ---- obama. That's right, screwing up the presidency so badly that it enabled someone as unqualified as obama to win this election.


[edit on 11/5/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 


I completely agree with your statement, and truthfully admire anyone who honorably makes use of an opportunity.

My entire (though not grand by any stretch) education was paid for by government grants. I think this is one of the greatest social programs ever devised. To give a person an honest chance to pull themselves up by the bootstraps with hard study, a chance to level the playing field, is one of the greatest things ever and truly epitomizes the American dream.

But paying "lazy thugs" to sit on their asses and/or sell drugs, whilst gathering public assistance left and right, whilst reproducing with anything that moves to increase the "take", and driving a car that cost twice as much as mine, that's where we get into trouble. Unfortunately, the system hasn't differentiated between you and I, and these human leeches for about the past 20 years. Someone needs to change this. Either get an education and a job, or GET OFF MY DOLE.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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Obamas Re-Distribution of Wealth Plan


OLD VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long,
building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and
plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

-------------------------------------------

MODERN VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his
house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and
plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and
demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed
while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS , CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the
shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home
with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor
grasshopper is allowed to suffer so ?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody
cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where
the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Jesse then
has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Larry King that
the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for
an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act
retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green
bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is
confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a
defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of
federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single-parent
welfare recipients.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of
the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to
be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain
it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the
house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the
once peaceful neighborhood.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by gizmohd
November 4th 2008 marks the dawn of a new day. Gone will be the days where hard work actually means something in order to prosper in the world. Gone are the days where family matters. Welcome to the economic enslavement of the entire nation. No longer will you benefit from succeeding in business or work. No longer will you need to worry about paying for your electric bills or gas bills. Why? Because you wont be able to much longer. Obama told us that under his plans the cost of electricity would 'necessarily" skyrocket. Under his plan if I succeed and become successful I will be punished by higher tax rates. Gone is the American dream. I am rightfully upset. I am a single father raising two children without any help from their mother (financially or otherwise) and I take NO government assistance to do it. I worked 60 hour work weeks while going to school full time in the evenings while my children were toddlers giving up precious time with them in order to earn my college degree so that I could make more and provide more for them. But now, when Obama removes the Bush tax cuts, my taxes will increase, when Obama orders that the Power Plants pay a ridiculous carbon tax for burning coal, my Electricity costs will skyrocket... Now, when Obama stops us from drilling for more oil my fuel costs will skyrocket.. When is enough enough? Where is the point where Obama comes out and says that they will take 100% of my salary and provide me with what "I need" to survive? Myself, my father/grandfather/greatgrandfather etc all served in the military with pride to protect my and your freedoms from socialsm and now I get to explain to my children just why is it that we allowed socialism/communism to win. ANd the sad thing about it all is that they were right.. Because America allowed itself to be bribed with our own money, money that the government shouldnt have in the first place, we vote our freedoms away just for a damn handout..

So, as the title suggests... Welcome to the United Socialist States of America. God help me, I pray that I am wrong and things will not get as bad as I forsee.. But when everything I was taught about freedom and what this Republic stands for is going to be flushed down the toilet, it makes me mad. But most of all, it makes me extremely sad.. Just how is it that I am going to explain it to my children how we allowed this wonderful country to slip away from us.


Amen brother...I too am a single father with a very similar situation. I have the exact same concerns for my family and I. Its a scary situation for those of us that understand all that could be lost. I don't understand how America could be so blinded by the facts that have been presented. My grandfather passed away in 1992. I am damn sure he is rolling over in his grave....quite possibly with his ass in the air for the likes of these socialistic scum-sucking bottom feeders to kiss...Goodluck to you and yours



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by gizmohdI am a single father raising two children without any help from their mother (financially or otherwise) and I take NO government assistance to do it.


Yes you do..

..or do you home school your children.. take your own mail around to all of the places and people you do business with in the car that you drive on your privately kept roads?




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