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reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:07 PM by GirlNextDoor

reply to post by Barathrum

Excellent post. I hope you're right.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:09 PM by pexx421

First off he cant be a fascist and a socialist, the two are diametrically opposed, with socialists putting the power in the peoples hands and fascists putting the power in the corporate hands so, much as i hate to name call, stop speaking like a nitwit about things you dont understand. Look up the terms you are using if you dont understand them.

And to rikk? i think it is? the guy with einstein for your avatar, but bashing socialism??? Albert einsten proclaimed socialism as the only hope for the future of humanity, as did hellen keller and many other such people, albert also wrote several articles on it. Pointless to state here, though, as im sure most people lamenting socialism on this board have likely never read a single book about it.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:09 PM by Karlhungis

reply to post by gizmohd

Please elaborate. What are you getting at? That McCain isn't using the same dirty tricks that Bush used? Or that we should feel sorry for McCain for what Bush did before and therefore allow him to use the same tricks?

Explain to me how a divided country would be a good thing right now? Tell me how continuing to spout on about Obama being a socialist and wanting to ruin the country is going to help ANYTHING? Tell me how pity parties like this are going to help? What do you think the end result will be? Do you think people will say, sure Obama won the election in a landslide and McCain conceded, but there are still pockets of people who hate him and what he stands for so maybe we shouldn't allow him to be president after all?

Name one good thing that can come out of this hate fest? Other than that it will continue to fuel some whack job that is wanting to kill him because he believes the BS that you guys keep spreading.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:09 PM by gizmohd

Originally posted by Barathrum

don't let who wins an election make you frown. that's giving someone else power over your perception and ultimately, over you. you are in charge of yourself as an individual and the decisions we all make individually are what truly determine the direction we as a collective take

Thank you for helping to put things back in perspective...

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:16 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by gizmohd

Giz , the thing I think you fail to understand is " The names Change but the game stays the same" They are both puppets. If John won what Huge changes would have taken place?.... The same ones that Obama will bring...NONE - It's politics
WAKE UP

S&F BTW

[edit on 4-11-2008 by EyesWideShut]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:17 PM by Gateway

reply to post by pexx421

are diametrically opposed

Not really. Capitalism, REAL Capitalism is all means of production are owned by private individuals, the further you move to the left the more you have government interfering with private owners until you have government sanctioning a few to own the means of production as in fascism, we keep moving to the left until you have socialism/communism where the STATE owns all means of production.

So these ideologies are not 100% opposed to each other, rather they are slight variation of the same theme, of government controlling either 100% the means of production or regulating the means of production to those few it sees fit.

In either case; both ideologies originate from the LEFT.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Gateway]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:19 PM by gizmohd

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by gizmohd

Giz , the thing I think you fail to understand is " The names Change but the game stays the same" They are both puppets. If John won what Huge changes would have taken place?.... The same ones that Obama will bring...NONE - It's politics
WAKE UP

S&F BTW

[edit on 4-11-2008 by EyesWideShut]

Hahaha.... Of course.... "Promise them Everything.. Yet deliver nothing...."

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:21 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by gizmohd

Thats what they do my friend
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reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:22 PM by justamomma

reply to post by greeneyedleo

I think what you said, considering your good intentions, was valid.. however, there should have been a "was" and "would have been" when speaking about being nervous for your country.

McCain being in office is no better for our country than Obama being in office.

WE created this mess. Anyone who understands the point of what our forefathers said OVER AND OVER should understand that the people are the ones who run not only this country, but really, the whole planet. To place blame, particularly BEFORE someone has been given the opportunity to prove themselves is to continue in ignorance in how this country was laid out.

We still hold the power to respond appropriately in our lives and NO ONE else can be blamed when we don't. NO ONE!

I was, I am, and I will be concerned for this country, but it has nothing to do with who is in office and everything to do with how the people will respond to the dark times we were already destined to go through when we made BAD DECISIONS regarding our lives and our country in prior moments that have long since passed.

THE MAN who WILL be our president does NOT NEED all the negative energy directed his way as he IS going to be the one to lead this country. He needs nothing but prayer for wisdom in the time ahead.

If you believe he will fail, he most likely will.. but it will be because of US more so than him. Have faith in yourself, your fellow citizens, and the one who WILL be leading us. Fight him from the get go and this country WILL be screwed.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by justamomma]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:22 PM by gizmohd

The 7 Commandments are abridged for the last time, simply reading, "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."

George Orwell - Animal Farm

[edit on 4-11-2008 by gizmohd]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:24 PM by pexx421

no, actually fascism is from the right, as capitalism is pushed to the extreme where the corporations gain the power to disrupt the political system and push legislation that benefits them at expense of the people.

But in socialism, contrary to your statement, the means of production are not necessarily owned by the government, they can be owned by the businesses, however, the PROFIT, or at least some of it, is used for the people. Thats what socialism is, nationalization of profit for benefit of citizens.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:27 PM by Rotoplooker

To the Republicans: The world will not end; The U.S. will not become a socialist country; President Obama will not take away your guns; Things will probably be ok

To the Democrats: Now is the time to unify the country; Show some humility

I'm a democrat and I voted for Obama. I don't think the world will be all sunshine and flowers now, but I believe things can only get better. If McCain had won I would have been very disappointed. However, I think he would have been a good president. As for the Republicans who insist that the country will circle the drain, I ask you to wait and see. The dems said the same stuff in 2004. I think that people on both sides will be shocked to see just how conservative Barack Obama really is. Whatever your feelings are about Obama winning, I think we can all say that this is a great day for equality. This is a great day for African Americans, who for generations would have never thought it possible for a black man to win the presidency. That inspiration for a people who have had to fight for everything most Americans take for granted, will be good for the whole country.

Now, if George W. Bush had declared marshal law and maintained his office, that would have been AWFUL!

No flowery throws for that kind of situation.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:28 PM by pexx421

Plus one true facet of socialism, and communism for that matter, is the people, ALL the people actually being involved in the state. That is what Hugo Chavez is doing in venezuela where he has organized community groups to vote on policy, and that is what soviet russia was ORIGINALLY based off (lasted all of 6 months) in fact thats what a "soviet" is, a meeting of community to decide upon community rules.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:28 PM by gizmohd

Well, all I can say is that we've already had one facist president... Does anyone remember the American Protection League... I honestly dont, but i heard stories about it from my grandfather that chilled my bones...

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:29 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by gizmohd

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power"

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:29 PM by gizmohd

Originally posted by Rotoplooker
Now, if George W. Bush had declared marshal law and maintained his office, that would have been AWFUL! No flowery throws for that kind of situation.

Amen there!

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:31 PM by dreamsnatcher

reply to post by EyesWideShut

Amen, the only person spouting real change wasn't on the ballot. This was planned and it only cost 630 million dollars to pull off. Anyone realize who benefited from all the spending MSM which is owned by the master controllers. So not only are you paying them through your taxes now the donations you sent, went to them as well. If this stuff was fair you would have heard from everyone that was on the ballot. My prediction is that everyone will keep working and paying taxes and bitching about both.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:32 PM by pexx421

rotoplook, dont forget the bunnies. With sunshine and flowers you need bunnies. At any rate, the country MAY be circling the drain no matter who won, as i think either candidate would be hard pressed to turn our country around. Between our financial collapse, the collapse of our image in the world, and the bleak outlook for the future, no matter how good he does, it will be a long hard trek for him not to be seen as the President who presided over the wreckage left behind by bush....not that its all Bush's fault...i think all the last 4 presidents all had a hand.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:33 PM by EyesWideShut

reply to post by dreamsnatcher

Yeah... what ever happened to Ron Paul?...
line2 and just in case....
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reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:34 PM by Gateway

Originally posted by pexx421

no, actually fascism is from the right, as capitalism is pushed to the extreme where the corporations gain the power to disrupt the political system and push legislation that benefits them at expense of the people.

This is incorrect. How can capitalism under minimal government, which is what capitalism is... manipulate the government enough to control entry? This is a contradiction, my dear boy. This can only occur in an environment where the STATE is large enough to regulate the entire economy, hence it is a LEFTIST ideology. Ergo, fascism, the further you move to the left the larger the STATE is and the larger the hold of privately owned means of production.

But in socialism, contrary to your statement, the means of production are not necessarily owned by the government, they can be owned by the businesses, however, the PROFIT, or at least some of it, is used for the people.